Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 248. (Read 3049515 times)
Yeah I'd love to see the pictures myself, considering their website says they aren't shipping and you can only find a couple secondhand units on ebay/elsewhere.
Stuck wrong hole and shoot on own foot~
copy the pic
Any one feel their love today?
you should feel the love knc is giving you everyday...in the backside w/o lube
BFL : shipping in two weeks.
KnC: near future
KnC: near future
Wait, BFL ships stuff anymore?
Whatever happened to the Monarch? That was hilarious. People were like, oh man they'll ship on time this time.. And then they didn't, of course.
monarchs are shipping now...someone had a whole rack of them in their warehouse/dc on picture your miners thread
Well, that doesn't add up when considering the calculation above.
On the contrary, it would explain virtually all of KNC's parsimonious and mean behavior. Why would they go out for a Series A and reduce their equity if they were flush ?
I based my figures off of Jupiters batches 1 and 2, where KNC's internal insurance invoiced their value at $1000USD when being shipped back to them, or within their company controls.
[...]
Consider how many tens of millions they took home in profit on their tax statement. Their profit margins weren't 30%, they were generously higher.
Yep, the 1000$ marginal cost sounds about right. Not sure how much the ASIC NRE's are, though. If they got 25m$ for the Titan Batch1 they may have spent 10-20m$ on R&D?[...]
Consider how many tens of millions they took home in profit on their tax statement. Their profit margins weren't 30%, they were generously higher.
Batch2 was pure profit, though.
I don't think KNC is in a cash flow position to do anything special for their customers.
They seem to be struggling. The latest series A won't last them long.
Expect to get the absolute minimum possible from KNC these days, at the very last moment.
Well, that doesn't add up when considering the calculation above. Unless...They seem to be struggling. The latest series A won't last them long.
Expect to get the absolute minimum possible from KNC these days, at the very last moment.
Did you ever wonder why it says "KnC Sweden 20nm AB"? I'd guess because there are "KnC 28nm AB", "KnC Cloud", "KnC Private Mining", "KnC Holding" etc. The founders kept the 10's of m$ in their holding (or private accounts!) and make sure that any failure in the future doesn't cost them a penny.
The KnC 20nm is probably struggling to meet payments because of the Neptune debacle (first tape out botched etc) and was close to go bankrupt. As the latter is really not pretty both from bad publicity as well as the "annoying" legal investigations KnC tried to avoid the bankruptcy with dubious measures. Such as offering 5%-10% more refund money if the refund is delayed. And start taking Titan pre-orders - which has saved them.
Disclaimer: I don't know any details and all of the above is pure speculation.
Smart move on KNC part with Titan no refund. Bitmain coming December too, with Scryot machines 1/3 the price. $5/MH
I'm not feeling the love... no bonus miner here. 
Any one feel their love today?
I based my figures off of Jupiters batches 1 and 2, where KNC's internal insurance invoiced their value at $1000USD when being shipped back to them, or within their company controls.
[...]
Consider how many tens of millions they took home in profit on their tax statement. Their profit margins weren't 30%, they were generously higher.
Yep, the 1000$ marginal cost sounds about right. Not sure how much the ASIC NRE's are, though. If they got 25m$ for the Titan Batch1 they may have spent 10-20m$ on R&D?[...]
Consider how many tens of millions they took home in profit on their tax statement. Their profit margins weren't 30%, they were generously higher.
Batch2 was pure profit, though.
I don't think KNC is in a cash flow position to do anything special for their customers.
They seem to be struggling. The latest series A won't last them long.
Expect to get the absolute minimum possible from KNC these days, at the very last moment.
Well, that doesn't add up when considering the calculation above. Unless...They seem to be struggling. The latest series A won't last them long.
Expect to get the absolute minimum possible from KNC these days, at the very last moment.
Did you ever wonder why it says "KnC Sweden 20nm AB"? I'd guess because there are "KnC 28nm AB", "KnC Cloud", "KnC Private Mining", "KnC Holding" etc. The founders kept the 10's of m$ in their holding (or private accounts!) and make sure that any failure in the future doesn't cost them a penny.
The KnC 20nm is probably struggling to meet payments because of the Neptune debacle (first tape out botched etc) and was close to go bankrupt. As the latter is really not pretty both from bad publicity as well as the "annoying" legal investigations KnC tried to avoid the bankruptcy with dubious measures. Such as offering 5%-10% more refund money if the refund is delayed. And start taking Titan pre-orders - which has saved them.
Disclaimer: I don't know any details and all of the above is pure speculation.
Remember, people in KNC's part of the world sit in hot sweaty dark rooms and whip each other with willow and birch branches for fun.
And then they go roll around in the ice and snow naked, drink lots of high proof alcohol, rinse and repeat.
And then they go roll around in the ice and snow naked, drink lots of high proof alcohol, rinse and repeat.
I've seen some of the girls over there doing the rolling-around stuff naked. I have to admit, it's worth seeing at least once.
Remember, people in KNC's part of the world sit in hot sweaty dark rooms and whip each other with willow and birch branches for fun.
And then they go roll around in the ice and snow naked, drink lots of high proof alcohol, rinse and repeat.
And then they go roll around in the ice and snow naked, drink lots of high proof alcohol, rinse and repeat.
I've seen some of the girls over there doing the rolling-around stuff naked. I have to admit, it's worth seeing at least once.
Just looking forward to October then, hope kNC will give us some thing special this time. (Take out limitation on Nepy and Tity)
I don't think KNC is in a cash flow position to do anything special for their customers.
They seem to be struggling. The latest series A won't last them long.
Expect to get the absolute minimum possible from KNC these days, at the very last moment.
Remember, people in KNC's part of the world sit in hot sweaty dark rooms and whip each other with willow and birch branches for fun.
And then they go roll around in the ice and snow naked, drink lots of high proof alcohol, rinse and repeat.
BFL : shipping in two weeks.
KnC: near future
KnC: near future
Wait, BFL ships stuff anymore?
Whatever happened to the Monarch? That was hilarious. People were like, oh man they'll ship on time this time.. And then they didn't, of course.
KnC: near future
They're still trying to get the firmware on the Titan working … its shaping up to be another major fail.
BFL : shipping in two weeks.
KnC: near future
KnC: near future
As to building miners for dirt cheap, if KNC's profit margin is similar to the Jupiter series, they're making about 86-89% pure profit on the gear. So it could be done.. but.. the whole thing of they won't do it because they know they can just keep the money to themselves.
I dont think their profit margin is that high with the gear, their secret is to build the machines and then mine with them a couple months before giving to public.
Unable to pre sell to the public at inflated prices anymore, I doubt they can make mining gear at that profit margin again unless they can con more people as they are going private now, which is what the new strategy is I believe with the A series funding round.
I would expect at least 30% of ~25m$ pre-order sold (Batch 1). The NRE of a 28nm ASIC and production cost should run much about 10m$? Batch 2 was then pure profit for them, as R&D has been paid for. I'd expect the marginal cost to be comparable or lower than the Bitmain L1, so a Titan costs 1800$ to produce after R&D.
That said, this is pure speculation, I simply don't know.
The pre-order scams etc. will also damage Bitcoin and the hoped for spike in prices may not happen. At that point it's going to be difficult to make new hardware and profit from that as before, because the marginal increase in performance/watt does not justify the explosion in R&D costs. So from now on it'll be about "cheap", not about "quick to market" (IF they sell any)
I based my figures off of Jupiters batches 1 and 2, where KNC's internal insurance invoiced their value at $1000USD when being shipped back to them, or within their company controls. These figures came out hundreds of pages back. A company won't take a loss on a product in RMA when it can be insured, and would insure it for what their cost would be plus return shipping.
Further examination of the individual components also correlates to that value. BeagleBone value was around $99 back then. Arctic Cooler has remained $35. The other four fans ran around $9. Aluminum casing about $15 at most. Examining those costs:
Beaglebone 1 @ 99
Arctic Cooler 4 @ 35
Arctic Case Fan 4 @ 9
Aluminum Case 1 @ 15
Subtotal: 290
Bulk Discount 15%: 43
Potential Total: 247
Mining boards at their lowest were being sold for $200 I believe, and there was discussion a thousand pages back that the chip costs were likely close to $30 each. So figuring PCB components and the chip costs add up to internal cost of somewhere between $125-$150/ea, speculative pricing but close to real-life costs based on other industries.
If that's the case, 4 mining boards @ $150 = 600. Add on maybe $35 for the controller board.
So now the estimate is at $635+$247=$882. With the remainder on that shipping, which is close to their public original pricing of $150 UPS Air.
That's how I, and others, arrived at an internal KNC cost of $1k per Jupiter for 2013. Honestly, if you think about it, it absolutely makes sense. They crowdfunded their R&D / standup / profit buffers with the very first sale. They didn't have to sell batch 2 to make profit, they were making profit with batch 1. They simply kept the margins high after that, while still giving you guys a break, and it makes it seem like everyone is a winner.
Consider how many tens of millions they took home in profit on their tax statement. Their profit margins weren't 30%, they were generously higher.
No Scrypt-N or other variants of Scrypt for Titan owners when it ships.
Maybe they realized that with Scrypt-Ncustomers competition could be able to achieve ROI..??
'near future' means forever, when shipping 'soon' means actually 'in some weeks'....
Maybe they realized that with Scrypt-N
Kurt
Today, 09:45 AM
Hi,
The Titan was designed for several variants of the Scrypt algorithm, including Scrypt-N, this however, will not be implemented within the very first firmware revision as our main priority as it stands is to improve the core Titan firmware.
As mentioned in our latest newsletter, the firmware is in continuous development and we do expect to enable the functionality to mine different variants of Scrypt in the near future.
Today, 09:45 AM
Quote from: Originally posted by stormagen
The forum has exploded with questions concerning the titan and scrypt-n and you have refused to answed any of them?!!
Will the titan be able to mine scrypt-n out of the box or after a firmware update?
What speed will it hash scrypt-n at?
If you do not have a clue then please say so instead of being rude and just ignoring the questions.
Will the titan be able to mine scrypt-n out of the box or after a firmware update?
What speed will it hash scrypt-n at?
If you do not have a clue then please say so instead of being rude and just ignoring the questions.
Hi,
The Titan was designed for several variants of the Scrypt algorithm, including Scrypt-N, this however, will not be implemented within the very first firmware revision as our main priority as it stands is to improve the core Titan firmware.
As mentioned in our latest newsletter, the firmware is in continuous development and we do expect to enable the functionality to mine different variants of Scrypt in the near future.
'near future' means forever, when shipping 'soon' means actually 'in some weeks'....
Now my concern is when will knc start shipping batc 1 Titan and Titan mini, I already realize that impossible to ROI, so I just want my toy back to me and play it around:
Maybe made some shit coin to mine myself for fun, will knc fillful my humble wish? You know as a leading company in the mining industrial(bitcoin)!
Maybe made some shit coin to mine myself for fun, will knc fillful my humble wish? You know as a leading company in the mining industrial(bitcoin)!
well we can be sure of one thing with a scrypt miner we can always use the toy to make coin lots and lots of worthless coin..but then again
i have no life....if i want to run it for alt coins that are worth dust at least I can......
yeah I know I need a life
(but all the pretty alt coins....not worth zip ..but soooooo many.......soooo full wallet .....sooooooo sad is my life)
heh
I think at this point its almost impossible to build machines to even positive ROI.
They would need to build under $330 for 1TH @.7 watts efficiency and .10 cents electricity just to break even.
They would need to build under $330 for 1TH @.7 watts efficiency and .10 cents electricity just to break even.
yeah at 15c/kwh I'm out ..and to tell the truth the hosting I've looked at in USA comes out to almost exactly 15c/kwh
so it is a wash for that as an option......at this point in time imho you sit on cash watching it fall waiting to buy coin
on www.coinbase.com or you just plain do zip at all and scratch your head (or the oppissite end) in utter confusion
but the FUD the press has put out on bitcoin in combo with the price drop has .I hope... been the reason for this
'temporary' situation for the price drop and negativity...and it too will pass
anyway as a HOBBY it has all the drama of being in a parachute club with none of the real dangers except to my
ego so WTF ....at least it is interesting
(although those Ad's for the DESTINY game on PS/4 etc makes me want to go out and buy it...and the last game
I played was on an apple II ..I think I'm becoming an adrenaline junkie from my BTC watching)
anyway Titan will be coming soon (batch one) the NO ROI Titan as I've renamed it ..that should be as close to
I'll ever come in making a perpetual motion machine...ie instead of it should keep runnning w/o energy...it will
be the mantra ..it should make ROI..both instances are myth!
funny humans
As to building miners for dirt cheap, if KNC's profit margin is similar to the Jupiter series, they're making about 86-89% pure profit on the gear. So it could be done.. but.. the whole thing of they won't do it because they know they can just keep the money to themselves.
I dont think their profit margin is that high with the gear, their secret is to build the machines and then mine with them a couple months before giving to public.
Unable to pre sell to the public at inflated prices anymore, I doubt they can make mining gear at that profit margin again unless they can con more people as they are going private now, which is what the new strategy is I believe with the A series funding round.
I would expect at least 30% of ~25m$ pre-order sold (Batch 1). The NRE of a 28nm ASIC and production cost should run much about 10m$? Batch 2 was then pure profit for them, as R&D has been paid for. I'd expect the marginal cost to be comparable or lower than the Bitmain L1, so a Titan costs 1800$ to produce after R&D.
That said, this is pure speculation, I simply don't know.
The pre-order scams etc. will also damage Bitcoin and the hoped for spike in prices may not happen. At that point it's going to be difficult to make new hardware and profit from that as before, because the marginal increase in performance/watt does not justify the explosion in R&D costs. So from now on it'll be about "cheap", not about "quick to market" (IF they sell any)
Scrypt: Bitmain at $5 MH in December. KNC batch 2 $15 MH. Bitmain cost maybe $3-3.50 but importantly BOTH Companies use the money now from pre-ordrs to do something for 3 months.
The Titans are the Scrypt offshoot. I haven't done calculations on those but the Asics Neptunes will mine back 2 btc lifetime (currently) for them mining them earlier beforehand and release to the public profits more because they have cheap electricity, if that was the case then means $950 manufacture or less to break even (or maybe make at a loss) , better yet take 10k 12k, 6k, from customers by preselling them and use for a few months then re-sell them back at (retail price) before or at order deadline.
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