Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 249. (Read 3049515 times)

What do you think is their profit margin?
I would expect at least 30% of ~25m$ pre-order sold (Batch 1). The NRE of a 28nm ASIC and production cost should run much about 10m$? Batch 2 was then pure profit for them, as R&D has been paid for. I'd expect the marginal cost to be comparable or lower than the Bitmain L1, so a Titan costs 1800$ to produce after R&D.
That said, this is pure speculation, I simply don't know.

The pre-order scams etc. will also damage Bitcoin and the hoped for spike in prices may not happen. At that point it's going to be difficult to make new hardware and profit from that as before, because the marginal increase in performance/watt does not justify the explosion in R&D costs. So from now on it'll be about "cheap", not about "quick to market" (IF they sell any)

Likely the Neptune will be the last of their miners as it's clear they are moving the cloud mining, if there is a 14nm or 10nm chip it will only be in hardware they build for their own cloud.

I dont think their profit margin is that high with the gear, their secret is to build the machines and then mine with them a couple months before giving to public.

Unable to pre sell to the public at inflated prices anymore, I doubt they can make mining gear at that profit margin again unless they can con more people as they are going private now, which is what the new strategy is I believe with the A series funding round.

Poodle man, you've got to put the bong down once in awhile!

A smaller process node is not going to save mining, Scrypt, SHA or whatever, especially coming from AMD and Nvidia. They don't care about mining.  Future generations of graphics cards will not significantly improve on hash speeds above what the process node will allow. So even if hash speeds double, triple or quadruple with 10nm (which is still years away for graphic cards), ASICs are already way, way beyond that.

Hell, Nvidia's latest and greatest GPU is going to be released in a few days. And guess what, they are still at 28nm!
http://videocardz.com/52362/only-at-vc-nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-final-specifications

If you're expecting this to make your living, you might be doing it wrong, especially since the inception of the movement wasn't so much to make a living ... it was to change the way we think and use transactions entirely, regardless of its value.

I will go to GPU side next year, knc do not have enough capital to initial 14nm or 10nm process wafers, only AMD and Nvidia got enough capital and knowledge to do so.

I estimate next generation of both AMD and Nvidia their 599+ usd grade graphic card will introduce enough hashing power for us, and we really can get rid of nightmare of SHA256 hashing disasster, 6th/s for 0.04/day, WTF to making living that's totally fxxking me alot.

and the trend of bitcoin mining will belong to miner maker company like knc and bitmain, and so on, what we can do is use next generation powerful gpu to mine new algorithm and trade for bitcoin, or directly buy bitcoin and litecoin from market and hold it, virtual will never die, the market(supply/demand) will correct its self, and another thing we have to do is get a real day job make some saving and use our saving to preorder knc's future miner or GPU, and then we lost some money due to mining gear aged, so we have a day jod so we still can sustain for a while to wait coins pump, and miner makers get our money to operate their companty until the day we can't afford their expensive miner, then they will mine their self and we go buy coin from them or quit this game~~~ 

I agree.

I believe many people are banking on a skyrocketting value in the near-term based on the 2 jumps it had last year, which IMO were synthetic jumps, one based on fear and another induced by the asia markets gathering BTC before they lost the legal easy means. I believe bitcoin will go up over time, I just don't see anything other than synthetic jumps in the near-term.

I love my mining gear and I let it continue doing its thing, but I wouldn't buy any new gear. I do get hold of secondhand stuff people dump for pennies on the dollar just to get out of the scene, and to me that's decent. Better than paying full price or premium, which is silly.

Mining bitcoin is like pulling teeth these days. Even if you had a 6TH SP35 running today you would barely make USD 30 a day.
If you believe that the price of bitcoin trends towards the cost of producing it during this early adoption phase, then the current value implies either the existence of some very low cost private mining facilities or a pending failure in the bitcoin ecosystem.

I think that was just a face-saving maneuver by KNC, to close batch 1 and price reduce the remaining machines and call them batch 2 so they could get rid of the unsold stuff. I think KNC is probably regretting building the Titan as much as its customers are regretting pre-ordering the Titan.

On the mining side of things, they are getting killed by languishing BTC prices.

s1gs3gv/biffa, thanks for the correction. My math brain was focused too much on stuff at work. I guess I shouldn't bitcointalk while working

I remember there being a number which initially went unsold, but then heard rumor someone bought them all out for less than MSRP. Rumor is rumor, can't found it, but some users did report being unable to purchase the remaining 900 the same day. Because of this, and wanting to project 'worst-case' scenario for planning purposes, I presume the full 2500 to be sold.

As to building miners for dirt cheap, if KNC's profit margin is similar to the Jupiter series, they're making about 86-89% pure profit on the gear. So it could be done.. but.. the whole thing of they won't do it because they know they can just keep the money to themselves.

People shouldn't get into this game at this point with the thought of, my mining gear will positive ROI anytime in the near future. That window, for the most part, closed in 2013. Anyone mining now should have the mindset that they're banking on bitcoin value skyrocketing at some point.

Even still, it would be better to just buy bitcoin with your miner money.. and keep buying it if you believe the value will increase.

Mining is really fun though, so there's that. Can't say I'd drop several thousand just for that..

I think at this point its almost impossible to build machines  to even positive ROI.

They would need to build under $330 for 1TH @.7 watts efficiency and .10 cents electricity just to break even.

Knc still need our money in 10nm miner, don't go 14nm, not improve their hashing power that much, just go 10nm, that will has signification enhancement.

The major problem of them is they shot on their foot, due to lack shipping and update information and so on, even through I love their product, I still don't understand why they are make us to heat them.

KNC have been acting like they have serious cash flow problems for quite a while now.
With the last two projects (Neptune and Titan) major failures, and their overpriced hashing contracts unlikely to be flying out the door, they are probably living hand to mouth on the new Series A funding and trying to push through a new 14mm SHA-256 design quickly.

The future doesn't look good for KNC.

they have been selling HASHNET like there is NO limit and also ...so I heard...
... gawminers came thru on its 750mh scrypt miners 'virtual hashing' until they ship to beat knc..that started aug 25th I think it was
that would be a big dump....indeed

so supposedly they sold MORE then the Titan batches...that could be the reason for the jump in difficulty for LTC etc

(to think last summer I remembered when KNC gave a f*ck and would not allow themselves to be played and mocked by somebody like gawminers...I guess
enough money and the laughter is muted...you want much merriment and ego busting go to the gaw forums and announce you have a 1st batch Titan..if you
are lucky maybe from the laughter you can at least get somebody to cough up their lunch in hilarity at your misfortune)

Maybe some big guy buy rest of batch 1 Titan and mini, I remember that day I'm sort my-cart and about to add second order of Titan and mini, page shows 12xx and 18xx, and when the time I back from my shower and decide to put order, knc was closed batch 1 already just few minutes time frame, so my understand there will not that much Titans release to market, or maybe knc close batch 1 just because there were some big man or group acquire their equipment at single huge order, and this could explain whole story.

And the 200G on LTC network, maybe just this group buyer starting to hashing and host by knc cloud, and this is anOther explanation for the phenomenon what we saw by yesterday.

Except knc there is still no such powerful miner release to market, all we need do is just wait our order to delivery, and that's also what we can do now, just waiting and do nothing, because it is true Titan is truly most powerful miner so far.

Well, business is business, after my further count and estimate, I could ROI 60% of my preorder during Titan's life span, with current LTC price, hopefully price not dropping more.

These little beauties did the trick, got my Neppy cubes running at full steam with ridiculous efficiency!  I'm pretty sure we'll order some of these (the upgraded hcs ones) for our Titan as well.  Hopefully they offer 2 or 3 for one on Titans because with Bitmain stepping up to scrypt mining with December delivery, I'm a little salty about not having them yet.

  Perhaps you are referring to ARN Magnusson the Knight Templar?  I don't think he's been around since the 12th century...
Care to share a link to ARN? It would be greatly appreciated.
 ARN is also Arlanda Airport in Stockholm... still searching


Underbart!!  Here it is - http://www.arn.se/

Hey, I just stopped back by on the KnC forum and saw that things have not got any better with the refunds.  This worked for me, but ymmv.  File a complaint form with ARN.  On their website, they have forms for english also.  Now I did receive email from them in swedish and had to translate it, but otherwise everything worked fine.  I just filled out the form, attached my invoice and copies of emails from KnC.  KnC waited until it was time for ARN to have a hearing and then refunded my money.  Good luck on your refund.

FTFY

Seriously now, these guys work 35 hour weeks and get 30 holidays/vaction days a year. Anyway Kurt denied the LTC spike was KNC on their forums.
Maybe it is … no, not Fibonacci, … no not Alpha-T, … no not Flowertech, maybe Zeus / GAW / VB / Bitmain / Spondooles ?