Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 398.

opentoe

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Personal text my ass....

Quote from: McKinley on June 13, 2014, 07:02:21 AM

Quote from: Searing on June 13, 2014, 06:37:51 AM

yeah maybe ....my timing sucks..KNC's rep went to hell starting 1 wk after i got the Titan....jeez

but yeah I'm stuck with the Titan

as it is now it is pretty clear anyone with 5k or some such should just buy btc on the old (can it be old if btc born in 2009) the ''old' adage...anything UNDER 1k per bitcoin will seem like a 'deal' in 2 years....or the *we shall not mention crosses self* alternative of bust in 2 years

one or the other (at least my splat will be bigger then most if we all fall from 'orbit" neaha neaha)

Searing

yeah, no refund for the Titan - it's easy to guess why. Neptune was fucked up and people used refunds. With a Titan you're stuck forever with the pre-order. Investing in Bitcoins themselves has become more lucrative than hoping for good miners.

KNC needed a fusion of cash quickly and the TITAN was their best bet. They sure as hell snagged a lot of people I bet.

s1gs3gv

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Quote from: jimmothy on June 14, 2014, 07:50:41 PM

Quote

pre-orders seem to be a necessary evil at this stage of the mining equipment game and it isn't only KNC who uses them to fund future products.

That is simply not true. See bitmain/avalon/asicminer/bitfury.

Well, my statement was a generalization … let me qualify it my saying that pre-orders seem to be a necessary evil at this stage of the mining game for innovative and forward looking companies who are trying to secure the future of the bitcoin network with state of the art next generation technology.

As much as I like the Bitmain way of doing things they are opportunistic followers, not leaders. And they and the entire 2nd tier of manufacturers are likely to fall by the wayside over the next couple of years if they don't consolidate.

Biodom

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Quote from: opentoe on June 14, 2014, 07:49:32 PM

Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 12, 2014, 11:44:19 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on June 12, 2014, 11:38:09 PM

Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 12, 2014, 11:36:40 PM

I am waiting to see what KNC and Bitmain do in the next month or so before I commit any more money to equipment.
The SP30 could well be still born ...

What mining equipment do you own right now?

RoadStress, you are the one who needs to answer my question. I'm not selling anything here.
Will you or will you not SP30 match KNC $/GH on the Neptune they ship and include a 100% refund guarantee ?

Don't rush into anything RoadStress, I'll check back later to see what you have to say

~L)L~

I'd love to pre-order an SP30 ( september deliver ) but too chicken right now. Too many variables out there and margins too thin. $5095 and shipping is $100 more then what the SP10 was, so shipping is $300 now. Boils down to a non refundable $5395 for a 90 day wait. http://daycalc.appspot.com/09/25/2014
I don't think I'd lose out completely, I would get some return back, but not really knowing how much or if bitcoin will rise is putting me in a circling pattern right now. I'd just rather buy a bunch of bitcoin and hold then go through the purchase process and all that. Since I won't be running a 6TH machine in my home because who has 2400 of watts all ready to go and that is like a monthly car payment figure. Hell, I'm talking myself out of it right here. Tsssk, tssssk, tssssk.

yes, just go for it...What the heck, next year we will not be able to mine at all. I checked my house and it turns out that I have two independent circuits close by; since Sp-30 has 2 independent PSU, you can put each on a separate circuit ( each circuit could handle constant current of 12.5A=1375W in US, so you will be covered even at 110v until 2750W).

jimmothy

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Quote from: opentoe on June 14, 2014, 07:49:32 PM

I'd love to pre-order an SP30 ( september deliver ) but too chicken right now. Too many variables out there and margins too thin. $5095 and shipping is $100 more then what the SP10 was, so shipping is $300 now. Boils down to a non refundable $5395 for a 90 day wait. http://daycalc.appspot.com/09/25/2014
I don't think I'd lose out completely, I would get some return back, but not really knowing how much or if bitcoin will rise is putting me in a circling pattern right now. I'd just rather buy a bunch of bitcoin and hold then go through the purchase process and all that. Since I won't be running a 6TH machine in my home because who has 2400 of watts all ready to go and that is like a monthly car payment figure. Hell, I'm talking myself out of it right here. Tsssk, tssssk, tssssk.

Would you gamble $5,000 on satoshi dice? If not then why preorder hardware? (it's probably riskier with much less reward)

You could always buy 6th/s worth of rockminer hardware for less than you could buy an sp30 preorder now. (shipping in 2 weeks vs 3+ months)

But if gambling is fun for you I would not recommend it.

jimmothy

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Quote

pre-orders seem to be a necessary evil at this stage of the mining equipment game and it isn't only KNC who uses them to fund future products.

That is simply not true. See bitmain/avalon/asicminer/bitfury.

Biodom

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Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 14, 2014, 07:48:22 PM

Quote from: Biodom on June 14, 2014, 07:34:34 PM

Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 14, 2014, 06:08:00 PM

Quote from: rograz on June 14, 2014, 02:36:17 PM

However if you like KNC simply make someone else pay for your NRE costs it made a lot more sense to jump directly to 20 vs 28nm.

Rogaz, sometimes you say something that encourages me to think you are a knowledgeable and insightful guy (forgive me if you are a girl) and sometimes you say something really stupid.

KNC didn't make anybody pay for their NRE costs. People voluntarily entered into contracts for future delivery of a product (aka pre-order). This is no different that what Spondoolies is doing with the SP30.

Given the economics of bitcoin mining and the difficulty in raising finance for bitcoin related activities from conventional sources, it is often the only way to go. Like Guy said in the Spondoolies thread IIRC … 'we don't have 27 million dollars to finance 3 SP30 batches.'

No pre-orders, no SP30, no Neptune, no progress. There is a race on with bitcoin difficulty and there is no time to tinker around …

~L)L~

I think that you intentionally distort the comparison here. Spondoolies ALMOST have the Sp-30, they are 30-45 days away (maybe even closer) while KnC collected the pre-orders in November and still did not deliver until late June (at best), which is full seven months later. In addition, KnC played a clever mindtrick by saying that first batch will be delivered in Q1/Q2 (in some older documents or comments they even said spring). Calling this a possible Q1 product was an exaggeration because they certainly knew that it will NOT be done in Q1. I also find it appalling that they keep making these legalese tricks-like we are not consumers, for example to get from under the consumer protection in EU law.
Whatever they will come up with-good for them, but I will not play the game on these terms.

No, that wasn't my intent Biodom. The intent was to dispute that KNC forced anybody to do anything. They didn't, people voluntarily purchased pre-orders.

My secondary point was really just an allusion to the obvious … pre-orders seem to be a necessary evil at this stage of the mining equipment game and it isn't only KNC who uses them to fund future products.

This is fine.

opentoe

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Personal text my ass....

Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 12, 2014, 11:44:19 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on June 12, 2014, 11:38:09 PM

Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 12, 2014, 11:36:40 PM

I am waiting to see what KNC and Bitmain do in the next month or so before I commit any more money to equipment.
The SP30 could well be still born ...

What mining equipment do you own right now?

RoadStress, you are the one who needs to answer my question. I'm not selling anything here.
Will you or will you not SP30 match KNC $/GH on the Neptune they ship and include a 100% refund guarantee ?

Don't rush into anything RoadStress, I'll check back later to see what you have to say

~L)L~

I'd love to pre-order an SP30 ( september deliver ) but too chicken right now. Too many variables out there and margins too thin. $5095 and shipping is $100 more then what the SP10 was, so shipping is $300 now. Boils down to a non refundable $5395 for a 90 day wait. http://daycalc.appspot.com/09/25/2014
I don't think I'd lose out completely, I would get some return back, but not really knowing how much or if bitcoin will rise is putting me in a circling pattern right now. I'd just rather buy a bunch of bitcoin and hold then go through the purchase process and all that. Since I won't be running a 6TH machine in my home because who has 2400 of watts all ready to go and that is like a monthly car payment figure. Hell, I'm talking myself out of it right here. Tsssk, tssssk, tssssk.

s1gs3gv

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Quote from: Biodom on June 14, 2014, 07:34:34 PM

Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 14, 2014, 06:08:00 PM

Quote from: rograz on June 14, 2014, 02:36:17 PM

However if you like KNC simply make someone else pay for your NRE costs it made a lot more sense to jump directly to 20 vs 28nm.

Rogaz, sometimes you say something that encourages me to think you are a knowledgeable and insightful guy (forgive me if you are a girl) and sometimes you say something really stupid.

KNC didn't make anybody pay for their NRE costs. People voluntarily entered into contracts for future delivery of a product (aka pre-order). This is no different that what Spondoolies is doing with the SP30.

Given the economics of bitcoin mining and the difficulty in raising finance for bitcoin related activities from conventional sources, it is often the only way to go. Like Guy said in the Spondoolies thread IIRC … 'we don't have 27 million dollars to finance 3 SP30 batches.'

No pre-orders, no SP30, no Neptune, no progress. There is a race on with bitcoin difficulty and there is no time to tinker around …

~L)L~

I think that you intentionally distort the comparison here. Spondoolies ALMOST have the Sp-30, they are 30-45 days away (maybe even closer) while KnC collected the pre-orders in November and still did not deliver until late June (at best), which is full seven months later. In addition, KnC played a clever mindtrick by saying that first batch will be delivered in Q1/Q2 (in some older documents or comments they even said spring). Calling this a possible Q1 product was an exaggeration because they certainly knew that it will NOT be done in Q1. I also find it appalling that they keep making these legalese tricks-like we are not consumers, for example to get from under the consumer protection in EU law.
Whatever they will come up with-good for them, but I will not play the game on these terms.

No, that wasn't my intent Biodom. The intent was to dispute that KNC forced anybody to do anything. They didn't, people voluntarily purchased pre-orders.

My secondary point was really just an allusion to the obvious … pre-orders seem to be a necessary evil at this stage of the mining equipment game and it isn't only KNC who uses them to fund future products.

Biodom

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Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 14, 2014, 07:44:46 PM

Reserved for future comments

answer my comment-I don't think that you can.

jimmothy

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Quote from: RoadStress on June 14, 2014, 07:35:18 PM

Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 14, 2014, 07:20:57 PM

Just looking back through some of the goings on in this KNC thread. This one caught my eye:

Raskul has proof that KNC won't get their 20nm chips until August …

Quote from: raskul on May 21, 2014, 09:47:03 AM

Yes, I would say that what I have, is proof that it will be august before they get their chips, however, it's my proof and you are not getting to see it Tongue

seriously though ...because my source would get the sack and i'm not being held responsible for that. Information fed via me means it could be one of 300 employees who leaked this info - so my source is safe (well, until that employee resigns).

Of course, we all know that it happened on the 2nd of June … http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/news-and-anouncments/44983-the-neptune-wafers-have-left-the-building

~L)L~

Of course we know that wafers have left the building.

So you admit that spondooliestech was talking shit when he said that the 20nm wafers would take at least 4 months? (maybe it wasn't a lie but he was simply wrong.)

s1gs3gv

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Reserved for future comments

RoadStress

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Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 14, 2014, 07:20:57 PM

Just looking back through some of the goings on in this KNC thread. This one caught my eye:

Raskul has proof that KNC won't get their 20nm chips until August …

Quote from: raskul on May 21, 2014, 09:47:03 AM

Yes, I would say that what I have, is proof that it will be august before they get their chips, however, it's my proof and you are not getting to see it Tongue

seriously though ...because my source would get the sack and i'm not being held responsible for that. Information fed via me means it could be one of 300 employees who leaked this info - so my source is safe (well, until that employee resigns).

Of course, we all know that it happened on the 2nd of June … http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/news-and-anouncments/44983-the-neptune-wafers-have-left-the-building

~L)L~

Of course we know that wafers have left the building. What you don't know is that it appears that there will be some problems. Let me refresh your memory about obstacles:

Quote from: RoadStress on June 11, 2014, 08:42:20 AM

Quote from: lemonte on June 11, 2014, 08:06:59 AM

No "Official" press release, but sounds like they will begin shipping the Neptune next week according to their forum and Twitter.

http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/acccounts/45821-why-wont-knc-answer-valid-questions-important-questions-they-are-completely-ignoring?_=1402491925525

Quote

I can imagine there could be obstacles , he said , if they see any issues we should start hashing in their mining cloud.

WHAT???

Biodom

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Quote from: s1gs3gv on June 14, 2014, 06:08:00 PM

Quote from: rograz on June 14, 2014, 02:36:17 PM

However if you like KNC simply make someone else pay for your NRE costs it made a lot more sense to jump directly to 20 vs 28nm.

Rogaz, sometimes you say something that encourages me to think you are a knowledgeable and insightful guy (forgive me if you are a girl) and sometimes you say something really stupid.

KNC didn't make anybody pay for their NRE costs. People voluntarily entered into contracts for future delivery of a product (aka pre-order). This is no different that what Spondoolies is doing with the SP30.

Given the economics of bitcoin mining and the difficulty in raising finance for bitcoin related activities from conventional sources, it is often the only way to go. Like Guy said in the Spondoolies thread IIRC … 'we don't have 27 million dollars to finance 3 SP30 batches.'

No pre-orders, no SP30, no Neptune, no progress. There is a race on with bitcoin difficulty and there is no time to tinker around …

~L)L~

I think that you intentionally distort the comparison here. Spondoolies ALMOST have the Sp-30, they are 30-45 days away (maybe even closer) while KnC collected the pre-orders in November and still did not deliver until late June (at best), which is full seven months later. In addition, KnC played a clever mindtrick by saying that first batch will be delivered in Q1/Q2 (in some older documents or comments they even said spring). Calling this a possible Q1 product was an exaggeration because they certainly knew that it will NOT be done in Q1. I also find it appalling that they keep making these legalese tricks-like we are not consumers, for example to get from under the consumer protection in EU law.
Whatever they will come up with-good for them, but I will not play the game on these terms.

opentoe

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Personal text my ass....

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on June 12, 2014, 11:46:10 AM

Fair warning to fellow KNCminers...
Anyone holding BTC should beware that Gox will be liquidating coin soon to pay lawyer fees.
Coinlab backed out, and Japan courts don't like Sunlot's (Brock Pierce & company) offer.
date unknown, but the hearing is set for July 23rd.

How do I know they will be liquidating coin?
Gox doesn't have the cash on hand to pay the fees, and they have entered liquidation proceedings according to Google Hangout and Gox notices.
Being that the only other assets are a car, office furniture, and computer... there's no other option but to sell coin.
There's simply nothing else to "liquidate"
All this smells of coinage sell-off in late July, early August?
Just be careful & ready.....

And who's going to give them the real money if they want to sell that much BTC? They couldn't even afford to pay the taxes on it if they tried to "cash" out. I think having Gox sink or swim and thinking about it is just paranoia. It's just another company in the blackhole of shit fraudulent bitcoin companies. They're old news now and I think their impact on the bitcoin community is pretty much over. Maybe just a tiny little bit repercussions and that's all now.

s1gs3gv

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Just looking back through some of the goings on in this KNC thread. This one caught my eye:

Raskul has proof that KNC won't get their 20nm chips until August …

Quote from: raskul on May 21, 2014, 09:47:03 AM

Yes, I would say that what I have, is proof that it will be august before they get their chips, however, it's my proof and you are not getting to see it Tongue

seriously though ...because my source would get the sack and i'm not being held responsible for that. Information fed via me means it could be one of 300 employees who leaked this info - so my source is safe (well, until that employee resigns).

Of course, we all know that it happened on the 2nd of June … http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/news-and-anouncments/44983-the-neptune-wafers-have-left-the-building

~L)L~

tolip_wen

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Quote from: RoadStress on June 14, 2014, 04:56:32 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on June 14, 2014, 04:47:40 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on June 14, 2014, 04:36:20 PM

Oh didn't got the Jupiter part. Well ok, but even so...having a normal 3TH/s Neptune at 0.7W/Gh you will have ~2.2TH/s(or something close) if you downclock it to 0.5W/GH which would suck considering that it costs so much.

If they can achieve 0.5w/gh at the wall, there is no reason they couldn't give you enough chips for 3th/s. And if they give 3th/s worth of underclocked chips we might see 6th/s overclocked neptunes.

It's pretty much up to knc how much hashrate they will give.

Although they have shown they don't really give a shit about their customers so who knows.

There is no room in the case to put more chips so they can't do it. And even if they could why would they sell something underclocked? It means less chips for them and by now we all know that they are greedy cunts so they will never ship underclocked stuff.

I don't claim that KnCMiner can do it but, I can fit more ASIC in the case.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5535199

I could fit 6-8 ASIC in a Oct./Nov. case WITH 2 PSU, 2 water pumps, 2 controller, and the radiator INSIDE the case.

With external PSUs, pumps, and radiators cound get 12-16 ASIC in there.

YMMV

s1gs3gv

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Quote from: raskul on June 14, 2014, 06:25:16 PM

this thread used to be for the discussion about some Swedish lot - not a 'who's got the biggest dick' comparison thread.
this should help;

ps. before you even go there.. just because it's in my fucking sig, it doesn't mean i'm currently discussing it. get.a.fucking.life.

thanks. Grin

^^^ abusive language ^^^ 'tis either the drink or the tourrette syndrome ^^^

forgive him dear lord he knows not what he does

now … KNC's 20nm process is going to kick some butt soon. Stay tuned ...

~L)L~

raskul

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this thread used to be for the discussion about some Swedish lot - not a 'who's got the biggest dick' comparison thread.
this should help;

ps. before you even go there.. just because it's in my forking sig, it doesn't mean i'm currently discussing it. get.a.forking.life.

now. KnC's 20nm process was never going to arrive on time - as per their fantasy-like 'schedule' and as a result I held off buying the Neptune (regardless of what happened in the meantime, i'm still mining - it's a hobby, it's not a life-and-death situation as some of these numpties seem to act as though it were).

I am, however, more than happy with my 2nd hand Jupiter, which should still be keeping my house warm this winter, even if it's close to the bone on profitability by then. I just wanna keep in the loop with regards to these titanic thingiemajigs; I got friends who have bought into that one too, and I hope they do actually deliver. Whether something better comes out in the meantime, is yet to be seen.

thanks for putting up with my rant. Grin

s1gs3gv

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Quote from: rograz on June 14, 2014, 02:36:17 PM

However if you like KNC simply make someone else pay for your NRE costs it made a lot more sense to jump directly to 20 vs 28nm.

Rogaz, sometimes you say something that encourages me to think you are a knowledgeable and insightful guy (forgive me if you are a girl) and sometimes you say something really stupid.

KNC didn't make anybody pay for their NRE costs. People voluntarily entered into contracts for future delivery of a product (aka pre-order). This is no different that what Spondoolies is doing with the SP30.

Given the economics of bitcoin mining and the difficulty in raising finance for bitcoin related activities from conventional sources, it is often the only way to go. Like Guy said in the Spondoolies thread IIRC … 'we don't have 27 million dollars to finance 3 SP30 batches.'

No pre-orders, no SP30, no Neptune, no progress. There is a race on with bitcoin difficulty and there is no time to tinker around …

~L)L~

jimmothy

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Quote from: rograz on June 14, 2014, 05:07:23 PM

not really a fan of doing hardware modifications to prove a point.

You don't need to, I was just curious if it had been done.

And even if you couldn't reach 0.7w/gh with the old jupiter boards doesn't necessarily mean the chips can't.

It is very possible the chips are capable of ~0.7w/gh but hashrate might suffer to the point that it's not worth it.

Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 398. (Read 3050076 times)