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Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 488. (Read 3050075 times)

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1150
On page 1666, a deal with the devil is made - a bet on 100 bottles of Belgian beer. This thread finally got interesting again! Grin

@ £32 for 12 bottles, thats going to be £266.6 for 100!
I'm pretty sure ( Tongue) RealMalatesta meant the 750ml bottle, 9.2% alcohol:

http://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/trappistes-rochefort-8-750ml

100 of those will set you back £775  Shocked Tongue

They aren't sold in packs of 24, so I think I'm safe in assuming something like this: http://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/trappistes-rochefort-10


Yup. That's the right stuff. If you should get them, I would drive to UK for then I could collect some of them :-.)
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
On page 1666, a deal with the devil is made - a bet on 100 bottles of Belgian beer. This thread finally got interesting again! Grin

@ £32 for 12 bottles, thats going to be £266.6 for 100!
I'm pretty sure ( Tongue) RealMalatesta meant the 750ml bottle, 9.2% alcohol:

http://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/trappistes-rochefort-8-750ml

100 of those will set you back £775  Shocked Tongue

They aren't sold in packs of 24, so I think I'm safe in assuming something like this: http://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/trappistes-rochefort-10
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
On page 1666, a deal with the devil is made - a bet on 100 bottles of Belgian beer. This thread finally got interesting again! Grin

@ £32 for 12 bottles, thats going to be £266.6 for 100!
I'm pretty sure ( Tongue) RealMalatesta meant the 750ml bottle, 9.2% alcohol:

http://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/trappistes-rochefort-8-750ml

100 of those will set you back £775  Shocked Tongue

Shit just got real around here  Cool
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007

I think there is zero chance that the police will, without further investigation, conclude that KNC have acted fraudulently.

Due to different languages and different legal systems, we may not agree here. However, we could make a bet (since you seem to be British.. :-)

If KnC doesn't refund in time and I succeed to file a criminal case against them, you will send me 24 bottles of Belgium beer (Rochefort). If I do not succeed, I'll send you 24 bottles of a beer of your choice.

(You can file a criminal case (make a complaint to the police) against anyone for anything, that doesn't mean that any notice will be taken of it or that it will have any effect).
If you manage to have a European Arrest Warrant issued for any of KNC's employees [for failing to refund your money within 30 days], I'll send you 100 bottles of Belgium beer.


Add 100 bottles of Belguim beer from me too Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1221
On page 1666, a deal with the devil is made - a bet on 100 bottles of Belgian beer. This thread finally got interesting again! Grin

@ £32 for 12 bottles, thats going to be £266.6 for 100!
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
On page 1666, a deal with the devil is made - a bet on 100 bottles of Belgian beer. This thread finally got interesting again! Grin
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1150

I think there is zero chance that the police will, without further investigation, conclude that KNC have acted fraudulently.

Due to different languages and different legal systems, we may not agree here. However, we could make a bet (since you seem to be British.. :-)

If KnC doesn't refund in time and I succeed to file a criminal case against them, you will send me 24 bottles of Belgium beer (Rochefort). If I do not succeed, I'll send you 24 bottles of a beer of your choice.

(You can file a criminal case (make a complaint to the police) against anyone for anything, that doesn't mean that any notice will be taken of it or that it will have any effect).
If you manage to have a European Arrest Warrant issued for any of KNC's employees, I'll send you 100 bottles of Belgium beer.


100 bottles of Rochefort? Oh Lord, please make sure that KnC doesn't refund me within one month!!!! :-)
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250

I think there is zero chance that the police will, without further investigation, conclude that KNC have acted fraudulently.

Due to different languages and different legal systems, we may not agree here. However, we could make a bet (since you seem to be British.. :-)

If KnC doesn't refund in time and I succeed to file a criminal case against them, you will send me 24 bottles of Belgium beer (Rochefort). If I do not succeed, I'll send you 24 bottles of a beer of your choice.

(You can file a criminal case (make a complaint to the police) against anyone for anything, that doesn't mean that any notice will be taken of it or that it will have any effect).
If you manage to have a European Arrest Warrant issued for any of KNC's employees [for failing to refund your money within 30 days], I'll send you 100 bottles of Belgium beer.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250

Quote
And regarding the individual: You can set up a company without capital, i.e. use the miner as capital. As long as the miner is not delivered, the company is not existing, thus, you still are a private person protected by consumer laws. If you ask for a refund, you stop being a possible business, i.e. you are again a consumer who's assets are not sent back in time.

Wow, that sentence contains so much incorrect information, I don't even know where to start.

Well, never heard of a "Personengesellschaft", I guess.

It appears to be an English partnership.
So what? You agreed to contract out of consumer protection. It may be that you could successfully argue in court that you should be excused from that portion of the contract, and that you should be entitled to consumer protection, but until you do that, you aren't.
It matters not what legal status you are, it matters what contract you agreed, until you can have that contract modified.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1150

I think there is zero chance that the police will, without further investigation, conclude that KNC have acted fraudulently.

Due to different languages and different legal systems, we may not agree here. However, we could make a bet (since you seem to be British.. :-)

If KnC doesn't refund in time and I succeed to file a criminal case against them, you will send me 24 bottles of Belgium beer (Rochefort). If I do not succeed, I'll send you 24 bottles of a beer of your choice.

Deal?
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Is the acceptable time for a refund stated in their TOS? If not, you could sue them for fraud but they would likely return your money in the meantime, getting them off the hook.

Ok i can understand the delivery, but you should be able to claim damages by late refund right? I mean since you are entitled to a refund and they drag it for more than 1 month there must be a way to claim damages from that.
You might be able to, however it would be an amount of around 1% per month, basically interest on your "loan", and therefore not really worth time and effort.

Again your chances might be higher if clear refund terms are stated in the TOS.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1150

Quote
And regarding the individual: You can set up a company without capital, i.e. use the miner as capital. As long as the miner is not delivered, the company is not existing, thus, you still are a private person protected by consumer laws. If you ask for a refund, you stop being a possible business, i.e. you are again a consumer who's assets are not sent back in time.

Wow, that sentence contains so much incorrect information, I don't even know where to start.

Well, never heard of a "Personengesellschaft", I guess.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Is the acceptable time for a refund stated in their TOS? If not, you could sue them for fraud but they would likely return your money in the meantime, getting them off the hook.

Ok i can understand the delivery, but you should be able to claim damages by late refund right? I mean since you are entitled to a refund and they drag it for more than 1 month there must be a way to claim damages from that.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
If they are not refunding in time, you can file a lawsuit for fraud. This is a criminal offence which is needed for a European Arrest Warrant.

No it isn't.
I really don't know how to say it any clearer than that.
Failing to meet a contractual obligation is a violation of the contract which can be sued for damages in civil courts. It isn't fraud, which is a criminal offence.
Fraud requires dishonesty. Simply being inefficient is not fraudulent.

If they can prove that they are just inefficient - well. But if you file a lawsuit - let's say at the police station Urania in Zurich - and show them evidence that
a) you have paid
b) you asked for a refund
c) they agreed to refund
d) they haven't sent you the refund

chances are more than intact that the police will label it "fraud", too.

I think there is zero chance that the police will, without further investigation, conclude that KNC have acted fraudulently.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
In Austria, Germany and Switzerland, you don't have to go to a court. You go to the next police station, tell them what happened (best, you write it down and name the claims, cops don't like to much work). That's it. No court involved. Then it goes to the magistrate judge. Still no court involved. If you write your complaint well enough and back it up with evidence, it is up to him to decide what to do next. He can issue a request for an arrest warrant. Still no court involved. This all is for a criminal complaint, not a civil one.


Exactly.
For a criminal complaint.
You don't have a criminal complaint. No crime has been committed.

Perhaps it is a matter of language, as I think English is not your first language.
To sue someone, or to file a lawsuit, in English, means to file a civil complaint, with the courts.
You don't sue someone for a criminal issue, or file a lawsuit about it, as you said you just report them to the police.
You don't arrest someone (in general) for a civil complaint.

Quote
And regarding the individual: You can set up a company without capital, i.e. use the miner as capital. As long as the miner is not delivered, the company is not existing, thus, you still are a private person protected by consumer laws. If you ask for a refund, you stop being a possible business, i.e. you are again a consumer who's assets are not sent back in time.

Wow, that sentence contains so much incorrect information, I don't even know where to start.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Quote
And regarding the individual: You can set up a company without capital, i.e. use the miner as capital. As long as the miner is not delivered, the company is not existing, thus, you still are a private person protected by consumer laws. If you ask for a refund, you stop being a possible business, i.e. you are again a consumer who's assets are not sent back in time.

Sadly, this doesn´t apply.
KnC TOS state that you "agree" to be a business and agree to a b2b contract.

It doens´t matter wether you actually run this as a business or not, you will be treated as such.

As to the fraud debate: as stated above it might be treated as fraud by relevant authorities.

However, i see this as irrelevant because in the meantime they will just refund you and get off the hook.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1150
If they are not refunding in time, you can file a lawsuit for fraud. This is a criminal offence which is needed for a European Arrest Warrant.

No it isn't.
I really don't know how to say it any clearer than that.
Failing to meet a contractual obligation is a violation of the contract which can be sued for damages in civil courts. It isn't fraud, which is a criminal offence.
Fraud requires dishonesty. Simply being inefficient is not fraudulent.

If they can prove that they are just inefficient - well. But if you file a lawsuit - let's say at the police station Urania in Zurich - and show them evidence that
a) you have paid
b) you asked for a refund
c) they agreed to refund
d) they haven't sent you the refund

chances are more than intact that the police will label it "fraud", too.

Britain may be different - I just do not know. But I do know how it works in Germany, in Austria and in Switzerland.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1150
In a first stage, I do not have to convince any court. I have to file a lawsuit.

No, you have to convince a court that they have jurisdiction to hear your lawsuit.
You have to apply to them to be allowed to serve your filing out of their jurisdiction.

Quote
In Europe, you can do this basically with a simple letter sent to your local police station.

At least in the UK, that is simply not true.
The police would have no interest in your civil complain against KNC, they investigate criminal offenses.

Quote
But you are right: They claim in their TandC that you have to make a business out of the miner. However, this is even better: So private persons can claim that they were in a state of "Eigenschaftsirrtum".

You can claim all you want, you still have to file a lawsuit, get agreement to serve out of state, and convince the court to accept jurisdiction.

Quote
Furthermore: If you want to set up a business as an individual, you still are protected as a consumer.

I don't think that is true.

In Austria, Germany and Switzerland, you don't have to go to a court. You go to the next police station, tell them what happened (best, you write it down and name the claims, cops don't like to much work). That's it. No court involved. Then it goes to the magistrate judge. Still no court involved. If you write your complaint well enough and back it up with evidence, it is up to him to decide what to do next. He can issue a request for an arrest warrant. Still no court involved. This all is for a criminal complaint, not a civil one.

And regarding the individual: You can set up a company without capital, i.e. use the miner as capital. As long as the miner is not delivered, the company is not existing, thus, you still are a private person protected by consumer laws. If you ask for a refund, you stop being a possible business, i.e. you are again a consumer who's assets are not sent back in time.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
If they are not refunding in time, you can file a lawsuit for fraud. This is a criminal offence which is needed for a European Arrest Warrant.

No it isn't.
I really don't know how to say it any clearer than that.
Failing to meet a contractual obligation is a violation of the contract which can be sued for damages in civil courts. It isn't fraud, which is a criminal offence.
Fraud requires dishonesty. Simply being inefficient is not fraudulent.
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