Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 657. (Read 3050075 times)

Bitcoinorama please post additional clarification regarding Plan B!

Well, Russians will be opting for the hosting plan.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/07/russia-bans-bitcoin/?utm_campaign=fb&ncid=fb

The mine will be filled with current 28nm.
In addition they want to build another one in the same area for the Neptunes.

Plan A was deliver on time and then their mine will be used by themselves I guess or offered as cloud-hashing product.


I'm going to ask customer support for clarification regarding the coindesk article.
I can't believe it's true, coindesk must have misunderstood sth because knc's website still claims
 "If, during the course of development of Neptune, there is any threat to the timelines for delivery, those delays will not result in the loss of any mining time for our Neptune customers."

I'm a little surprised about that. I believe the November Jupiters are the most effectiv ASIC miners on this world at the moment and I thought KNC recognized that as well and filled byteminr with them after they stopped selling to the public. But well, it seems I've been wrong.

What I really don't understand (sorry if this was discussed before):


if "Plan A" is sucessfull, what happens to "Plan B"? Will it just not be switched on? Or run over by bulldozers?

I don't disagree.  The only upside might be the writing on the wall bringing new hash buying to a halt.

As I read it:
NO, that's not an option as it would be a combo of option 1 and 3.


1) When you decide to wait it would mean watching the diff sky rocking

2) For a refund, now is a better point in time than in summer I assume.

3) And when you decide for the hosting, one might pay >2.500$ a month for cloud-shit (based on 12.995 with 19-25%VAT and shipping) and will never see a physical device. In addition you only get 3TH/s, but they already said Neptune will be at least 11% faster.

So, does this mean that if we opt to wait and receive our Neptune we will get a compensatory 3TH hashing at their pool until the Neptune is shipped to us?  

That would mean as if getting the Neptune on June 1.

I understand luck on the pool I use has been poor lately but looking at a return on 12/5,6,7/13 and 2/5,6,7/14 then disregarding any change expected to network hashrate due to a KnC northern Sweden Jupiter farm, and calculating a similar reduction for 6/5,6,7/14, and expected ratio of 285,000MH/s to 3,600,000MH/s, it would start out making less than my Merc w/1_upgrade module makes today.  Unless I'm mistaken and I've been know to make mistakes.

But immediate resale upon arrival is possible, likely at a huge markup.  On the other hand if KnC's rational for not wanting to sell is a liability issue shouldn't a reseller feel the same?

WTF ?!!

I assume this is a f'ing joke  

At least it is in contrast to the latest news, Plan B was until now:
(in case) we will be late, you get 3TH/s (and not those 11% more btw) until Neptune is ready to ship.

It's a shame knc never heard of a "fuse" and built one in - probably would have saved them millions.

Or if they'd done that 5 minute burn-in they promised, probably could have saved themselves a few million on RMA costs.

Just don't go blaming the "non-tech owners", like it's their fault if KNC hate their customers. KNC sell to ANYONE, remember? If they are happy to take consumers money, (while forcing a b2b warranty on them), they just got to suck it up.

They are declaring $15million company profits. You can be pretty sure the same or even more left the company via dividends or salary or bonuses to the head honcho's. They ain't going to starve.

Maybe the exploding capacitors (not properly shutting down and restarting while casually unplugging and replugging pci-e connectors) or exploded incoming electrical service boxes made them feel customer/owners have become a liability.

Like some peoples who evolved in very northern climes have a linkage between that aspect of the fight-or-flee-mechanism which results in higher energy usage (generating heat) but with the effect of causing distress more easily when smoking pot or a tendency to alcoholism (Iceland, Russia tho not true of Mediterranean stock).  So, pot for them is not a good idea but for fairness pot is illegal for all in some locales.  A non-tech owner of a Jupiter casually unplugging and replugging pci-e connectors blowing up boards makes us all a liability for KnC would be similar.

Which begs the questions, if they had already changed their SMT machines to the new VRMs in November when the old VRM modules were available for the one-time sale, did they only have enough on hand to fill vacant module positions on Mercurys and Saturns and if so, knowing that Jupiter owners seeing two available ribbon cable sockets already populated which would allow them to upgrade 4 module Jupiters to 6 module Jupiters would jump at the chance to buy the old VRM modules, why offer them to all pre-existing customers instead of just offering them to Mercury and Saturn owners first?  It would have been clear there would be a shortfall.  Had KnC decided to change its perceived relationship with its customers?  The decision makers sitting around a table planning the sale should have and would have weighed these questions.

Delivery is scheduled for "Q1/Q2". There's no way they are starting the hosting before end of Q2.

They may have changed their production SMT machine(s) to the new VRM and for reasons of their own don't want machines to have a mixture of old VRM module boards and new VRM module boards.

And when that Jupiter farm comes online it will change the slope of network hashrate, maybe not the way the October and November sales did but there will surely be a sharp rise.

And that sharp rise will be punishing to the mined btc return of Neptunes to be eventually shipped to those who opt for possession and ownership of the hardware.

Lol, yes. That's the point I'm making in answering his question.

For $10-13k, people could've bought a nice chunk of silver or gold. A much more valuable brick.

You do realize by now that Q1 delivery is impossible, don't you?

This is a particularly interesting thing to note, especially for folks skeptical of the fact that KNC purposefully failed to uphold their NPS claims, kicked its customers in the nuts, and walked off laughing.

* Up to the start of the NPS window, they emphasized that they would absolutely open up the doors for more orders if competitors shipped hashrate

* They maintained for the duration of the NPS window, that no competitors were shipping hashrate.

* The network rate increased significantly during the NPS window, this can only occur when more systems come online, which typically occurs when new systems are produced and turned on

* They then say they didn't increase the network after Batch 2

* They claim they certainly didn't manufacture or sell anything after Batch 2

* Anyone who isn't KNC but who makes Bitcoin ASIC systems, is a competing manufacturer

* If KNC didn't sell, produce, manufacture or ship bitcoin systems, but the network rate rose noticeably, then someone else did--which means competitors shipped hashrate

Basically, they didn't want to sell more hashrate to its customers because they knew they could deliver the product swiftly and that it would work. Why would this matter to them? It cuts their own mining profits down to a wire-thin margin. It also would've guaranteed they couldn't charge ape-rape amounts for the Neptune, because nobody would buy it 6 months out when the difficulty was stupid-high, for that price at least.

As has been repeated, it would not benefit their existence to sell you more products as they promised. It does benefit them, however, to crowd-fund a datacenter where they get free mining equipment and free electricity to mine with.

Think about it


A billion pages back myself and some others outlined our projections for the Neptune and why we refused to preorder it. I don't have a link to the post, but essentially it goes like this: Based on our estimated difficulty math, unless you got the miner in March or first half of April, it would not make back its BTC cost in its lifetime.

I believe my estimate was that if you got it by May 1st, you would make back at most 4-7 BTC, and that's with Lady Luck on your lap.

Bear in mind, the difficulty we're at now is a smidge higher than I thought it would be for February, so my projections are now slightly worse. Q1 delivery is paramount to ROI, first couple weeks Q2 delivery is your last bet for hope. Beyond that, it's a brick.

Hell what infuriates me is that KNCs position is:

We aren't selling any upgrade modules to the people that launched our company, but we are going to manufacture hundreds or even thousands of them for ourselves and not sell our customers a single one because we want all the money for ourselves.

Its like they are saying:

"if you bought an upgradeable Mercury and you didn't get modules when we sold them for 7 minutes last year, well screw you!"

So glad I didnt get on the Neptune bandwagon. Amazing how greed and success gets to you and you forget who "brought you to the dance"

'Orama is a good man and I know he is embarrassed for KNC.

what, and start a stampede?  are you nuts?

Can anyone show a realistic projection where the Neptune makes back the initial BTC in 6 months with a delivery past April?