T20 and T20I cricket prediction and discussion - page 1314.

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Quote from: lixer on December 31, 2021, 03:01:09 PM

Quote from: mm2543363580 on December 30, 2021, 11:46:11 AM

There is an interesting move by ICC for inclusion of cricket in Olympics, ICC to make $3 million bid for cricket's inclusion in 2028 Olympics. We may see interest of more countries in cricket if it make its way to Olympics.
16 teams in T20 WC is also a big challenge, if ICC can include 3 or 4 more associate teams in next T20 WC that have good level it will be a big success.

ICC never been ideal Authority even now doing good for cricket into Olympics because they need some better planning and development from grassroots in many countries those are very good for cricket and can bring some very skills and quality players in future.

But, sadly they never use funds in this way, so we are losing many good countries in bad way like Kenya is the worst example for this, and now they have some good support for countries from where we never have any player like the UAE, Oman and Kuwait these are dead countries for quality and skill players, but sadly they are not understanding and still doing things which are never been favorable for game and fans.

I think that ICC still has time to recover from what has been done in the past. If ICC wants to include cricket in the '28 Olympics, they need to start working on getting at least 3 or 4 more teams to regular cricket. Although recently teams like Oman and UAE are playing enough cricket and there are some quality players, some more countries need to be included in there.

ICC has taken some missteps in the past but maybe including cricket in the Olympics could be good for the future of cricket in my opinion.

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Quote from: og kush420 on January 01, 2022, 03:42:56 AM

Oman, UAE and Kuwait cant do this in Football because the governing body is too strong there. They can do such manipulation in cricket only. I would say team of Italy, USA, Denmark, Jersey are not at the level of competing test playing teams. There inclusion will only mean points in the favor of opponent and nobody will watch these games.

It is a difficult choice. All the major sports are expanding their global events. The FIFA has decided to increase the number of teams participating in the world cup to 48 (from the current 32), from 2026 onwards. Obviously there will be a large number of one-sided matches in 2026. But the governing body needs to make a difficult choice between maintaining the quality and popularizing the sport. The current format of having 10 teams for the ODI world cup is definitely not sustainable. You can't call a 10-team event as "world" cup.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 31, 2021, 09:01:30 PM

The difference here is that other sports doesn't allow foreigners to be included in "national" teams. The logic is very simple. National teams are for "nationals" (i.e citizens). And here we have European and Gulf teams importing players from India and Pakistan on tourist visa and then building their playing XIs entirely from them. It is high time that the ICC should change the eligibility criteria. They should make it mandatory to have at least 6-7 citizens in the playing XI. The current setup is entirely unacceptable.

If only native players are allowed, the T20 world cup with 24 teams would looks like this (6 teams in 4 groups):

Group A: India, West Indies, South Africa, Scotland, Namibia, Italy
Group B: Australia, Sri Lanka, Ireland, Netherlands, Nepal, Kenya
Group C: England, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Denmark, Jersey, United States
Group D: New Zealand, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, PNG, Uganda, Malaysia

^^^ Compiled from the ICC Men's T20I Team Rankings, after excluding teams comprised entirely of mercenaries.

Oman, UAE and Kuwait cant do this in Football because the governing body is too strong there. They can do such manipulation in cricket only. I would say team of Italy, USA, Denmark, Jersey are not at the level of competing test playing teams. There inclusion will only mean points in the favor of opponent and nobody will watch these games.

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Quote from: lixer on December 31, 2021, 03:01:09 PM

ICC never been ideal Authority even now doing good for cricket into Olympics because they need some better planning and development from grassroots in many countries those are very good for cricket and can bring some very skills and quality players in future.

But, sadly they never use funds in this way, so we are losing many good countries in bad way like Kenya is the worst example for this, and now they have some good support for countries from where we never have any player like the UAE, Oman and Kuwait these are dead countries for quality and skill players, but sadly they are not understanding and still doing things which are never been favorable for game and fans.

You are so right, Kenya was WC semi finalist in 2003 and they are no where to be seen in last decade. Same is going on with Zim and very soon we will lose a test playing team. Gulf countries just make fun of cricket by making a national team that has all players imported from south Asia. ICC has no objection, since they are gambling hub.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 31, 2021, 06:47:14 PM

They will import players if they want to participate and not look that bad in an international tournament. These countries still have ample amount of time in their hand to find talent and players within, they do have resources and money to do that but, they will still need to import players.

The difference here is that other sports doesn't allow foreigners to be included in "national" teams. The logic is very simple. National teams are for "nationals" (i.e citizens). And here we have European and Gulf teams importing players from India and Pakistan on tourist visa and then building their playing XIs entirely from them. It is high time that the ICC should change the eligibility criteria. They should make it mandatory to have at least 6-7 citizens in the playing XI. The current setup is entirely unacceptable.

If only native players are allowed, the T20 world cup with 24 teams would looks like this (6 teams in 4 groups):

Group A: India, West Indies, South Africa, Scotland, Namibia, Italy
Group B: Australia, Sri Lanka, Ireland, Netherlands, Nepal, Kenya
Group C: England, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Denmark, Jersey, United States
Group D: New Zealand, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, PNG, Uganda, Malaysia

^^^ Compiled from the ICC Men's T20I Team Rankings, after excluding teams comprised entirely of mercenaries.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 30, 2021, 09:33:51 PM

The idea of 24-team T20 world cup is good. But it will be of no use, if the 12 associate nations end up importing mercenary players from India and Pakistan (similar to what Oman did this time). Associate cricket is turning out to be a joke. More than half of the ICC member nations have teams comprised 100% from foreigners. Teams like UAE, Oman, Hong Kong, European nations.etc doesn't even have a single citizen representing them. And cricket is dying in countries which used to rely on native players. I can give dozens of examples - Kenya, Netherlands, Nepal, Iran, Argentina, Israel.etc.

There can be no better example than Kenya. This is a team that managed to reach the semi-finals of the 2003 ODI World Cup. But they received no support from the ICC and cricket died out completely in less than a decade.

They will import players if they want to participate and not look that bad in an international tournament. These countries still have ample amount of time in their hand to find talent and players within, they do have resources and money to do that but, they will still need to import players.

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Quote from: mm2543363580 on December 30, 2021, 11:46:11 AM

There is an interesting move by ICC for inclusion of cricket in Olympics, ICC to make $3 million bid for cricket's inclusion in 2028 Olympics. We may see interest of more countries in cricket if it make its way to Olympics.
16 teams in T20 WC is also a big challenge, if ICC can include 3 or 4 more associate teams in next T20 WC that have good level it will be a big success.

ICC never been ideal Authority even now doing good for cricket into Olympics because they need some better planning and development from grassroots in many countries those are very good for cricket and can bring some very skills and quality players in future.

But, sadly they never use funds in this way, so we are losing many good countries in bad way like Kenya is the worst example for this, and now they have some good support for countries from where we never have any player like the UAE, Oman and Kuwait these are dead countries for quality and skill players, but sadly they are not understanding and still doing things which are never been favorable for game and fans.

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The idea of 24-team T20 world cup is good. But it will be of no use, if the 12 associate nations end up importing mercenary players from India and Pakistan (similar to what Oman did this time). Associate cricket is turning out to be a joke. More than half of the ICC member nations have teams comprised 100% from foreigners. Teams like UAE, Oman, Hong Kong, European nations.etc doesn't even have a single citizen representing them. And cricket is dying in countries which used to rely on native players. I can give dozens of examples - Kenya, Netherlands, Nepal, Iran, Argentina, Israel.etc.

There can be no better example than Kenya. This is a team that managed to reach the semi-finals of the 2003 ODI World Cup. But they received no support from the ICC and cricket died out completely in less than a decade.

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Quote from: Theones on December 30, 2021, 09:53:25 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 30, 2021, 09:45:22 AM

We already have 10 usual suspects (Ind +Eng+Pak+Ban +Sa+Afg + Aus +Nz + WI +SL ). As of now few names comes into my mind such as Ireland + Zimbabwe +UAE + Singapore + Nepal + Netherlands + Oman + Namibia + Qatar + Papua New Guinea then add few more teams so i think its not a impossible task to create new set up if ICC gets their act together and willing to do some meaningful change.

Zimbabwe was already in usual suspect list, it's removed by ICC due to some political reasons. Don't include gulf countries in any cricketing tournament, they will form a team of expats and that deprive deserving countries like Nepal and Malaysia. Netherland is good option they have played 1996 WC.

Right now we need countries like Zimbabwe and Kenya because they have some better things and many local players those are interested instead of having teams from Gulf because here it's very difficult for ICC to have local youth power it's need very long time same happening in Singapore and Hong Kong.

Teams with local players can do much better instead of having mostly players from other countries Scotland and Netherlands are also better options in current situation but sadly now Gulf is having some strong impact on ICC, so it's not easy to do things like this which promote this game from grassroots. Recently with the approach of South African Authorities now they are also in trouble because quality is going down very badly.

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Quote from: darewaller on December 30, 2021, 11:39:46 AM

Right now going with 24 teams even into T20 league is not possible for ICC because we have no quality teams around the globe for this like many other Associations have like FIFA, FIH and FIBA. We are currently lacking of infrastructure and many other things in many countries but with the few near formats hopefully in near future we will be able to have some better results. Recently we have some good attraction in short formats even now Olympics is also in sight of ICC for more exposure of this game which is very good.

Currently, I want ICC considers with 16 teams into Twenty/20, 12 teams into ODI and just 8 in into WTC with others on table but not for points because of very low quality.

There is an interesting move by ICC for inclusion of cricket in Olympics, ICC to make $3 million bid for cricket's inclusion in 2028 Olympics. We may see interest of more countries in cricket if it make its way to Olympics.
16 teams in T20 WC is also a big challenge, if ICC can include 3 or 4 more associate teams in next T20 WC that have good level it will be a big success.

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Quote from: Theones on December 30, 2021, 09:44:21 AM

Quote from: Juggy777 on December 30, 2021, 04:56:50 AM

@JSRAW I don’t think ICC will ever try to take BCCI out of the equation, because they very well know that BCCI can start their own tournaments and completely bury ICC revenues.

Lastly out of curiosity say ICC were to make it a 24 team T20 World Cup then which teams would be added? because I know only few teams, and even then I can’t reach the 24 teams count needed for your idea to be implemented.

If 24 teams are not possible then add as many as possible. Try to add atleast one or two team from every continent like FIFA do. I remember Ricky Ponting once opposed addition of associate teams in WC, Ponting says fewer teams is better for World Cup. It's clear that big boards don't want more countries to join in.

Right now going with 24 teams even into T20 league is not possible for ICC because we have no quality teams around the globe for this like many other Associations have like FIFA, FIH and FIBA. We are currently lacking of infrastructure and many other things in many countries but with the few near formats hopefully in near future we will be able to have some better results. Recently we have some good attraction in short formats even now Olympics is also in sight of ICC for more exposure of this game which is very good.

Currently, I want ICC considers with 16 teams into Twenty/20, 12 teams into ODI and just 8 in into WTC with others on table but not for points because of very low quality.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 30, 2021, 09:45:22 AM

We already have 10 usual suspects (Ind +Eng+Pak+Ban +Sa+Afg + Aus +Nz + WI +SL ). As of now few names comes into my mind such as Ireland + Zimbabwe +UAE + Singapore + Nepal + Netherlands + Oman + Namibia + Qatar + Papua New Guinea then add few more teams so i think its not a impossible task to create new set up if ICC gets their act together and willing to do some meaningful change.

Zimbabwe was already in usual suspect list, it's removed by ICC due to some political reasons. Don't include gulf countries in any cricketing tournament, they will form a team of expats and that deprive deserving countries like Nepal and Malaysia. Netherland is good option they have played 1996 WC.

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Quote from: Juggy777 on December 30, 2021, 04:56:50 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 29, 2021, 04:05:59 AM

~snip~
24 teams tournament

@JSRAW I don’t think ICC will ever try to take BCCI out of the equation, because they very well know that BCCI can start their own tournaments and completely bury ICC revenues.

Lastly out of curiosity say ICC were to make it a 24 team T20 World Cup then which teams would be added? because I know only few teams, and even then I can’t reach the 24 teams count needed for your idea to be implemented.

We already have 10 usual suspects (Ind +Eng+Pak+Ban +Sa+Afg + Aus +Nz + WI +SL ). As of now few names comes into my mind such as Ireland + Zimbabwe +UAE + Singapore + Nepal + Netherlands + Oman + Namibia + Qatar + Papua New Guinea then add few more teams so i think its not a impossible task to create new set up if ICC gets their act together and willing to do some meaningful change.

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Quote from: Juggy777 on December 30, 2021, 04:56:50 AM

@JSRAW I don’t think ICC will ever try to take BCCI out of the equation, because they very well know that BCCI can start their own tournaments and completely bury ICC revenues.

Lastly out of curiosity say ICC were to make it a 24 team T20 World Cup then which teams would be added? because I know only few teams, and even then I can’t reach the 24 teams count needed for your idea to be implemented.

If 24 teams are not possible then add as many as possible. Try to add atleast one or two team from every continent like FIFA do. I remember Ricky Ponting once opposed addition of associate teams in WC, Ponting says fewer teams is better for World Cup. It's clear that big boards don't want more countries to join in.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 29, 2021, 04:05:59 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 27, 2021, 09:10:43 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 26, 2021, 05:51:32 AM

Let's say ICC gives nod to another structural reforms on revenue model and every one is entitled (Test playing nation) to receive equal amount of money. for example $120 Million each.

Ireland's population = 5 million Revenue contribution = 0.00001%
India's population = 1.35 Billion Revenue contribution = More than 70%

Does that look logical at all? I don't buy this argument of "Equal amount" anymore. BCCI contribute 70%-80% of revenue and after collapse of BIG-3 model they gets 20%-28% of amount back, if you reduce BCCI share now then it would turn into modern version of colonisation in cricket. Where everyone sucking out resources from only one cricketing nation. BTW BCCI is only reason ICC is able to subsidise every associate nation atm and you really want to kill the golden goose?

Whatever you have posted is factually correct and no one is going to argue against those points. All I am asking is that the ICC should follow the same approach being taken by the other sports federations such as FIH, FIFA and FIBA. None of the other federations distribute money as per the population of a particular country (even if that is the case, then China should be receiving more funds from the ICC, since they are also an associate member). Anyway, for me the best solution would be something that is mutually beneficial - the pig-3 agree for more ICC tournaments. If so, the ICC revenues would increase and they can continue with the higher share for BCCI.

You can compare hockey, football etc with cricketing ecosystem but only when there is only 1 format especially shorter format T-20. If not then i believe cricket is more complex and in present situation it has at least 5 version of formats. 3 international (T-20, ODI, Test) and 2 underdeveloped formats - The 100 ball, T-10 and we're not equipped or have will to monetise all formats.

I think i have said this before that only long term solution would be to allow more associate member to participate in T-20 WC (24 teams tournament), that's where big bucks are made. There would be chaos at start for sure, in terms of revenue loss and dud fixtures but this could potentially solve some problems, as far as self sustainability by smaller boards and spreading the game are concern.

@JSRAW I don’t think ICC will ever try to take BCCI out of the equation, because they very well know that BCCI can start their own tournaments and completely bury ICC revenues.

Lastly out of curiosity say ICC were to make it a 24 team T20 World Cup then which teams would be added? because I know only few teams, and even then I can’t reach the 24 teams count needed for your idea to be implemented.

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Quote from: galambo on December 29, 2021, 05:36:27 AM

There are 32 teams in FIFA WC and with few exception all are up to standard of playing the WC. In cricket level of associate teams are too low, there matches with test playing team is of no match. See recent T20 WC, there is hardly any noticeable performance from associate team like Scotland, Oman etc.

but cricket cant progress with only 10 test teams, you have to include more teams in ICC tournament. Associate teams players will get confidence and we see more players joining in from there countries. It need ICC effort and the main reason ICC is not doing is because they have to spend lot of money for that initially.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 29, 2021, 04:05:59 AM

I think i have said this before that only long term solution would be to allow more associate member to participate in T-20 WC (24 teams tournament), that's where big bucks are made. There would be chaos at start for sure, in terms of revenue loss and dud fixtures but this could potentially solve some problems, as far as self sustainability by smaller boards and spreading the game are concern.

There are 32 teams in FIFA WC and with few exception all are up to standard of playing the WC. In cricket level of associate teams are too low, there matches with test playing team is of no match. See recent T20 WC, there is hardly any noticeable performance from associate team like Scotland, Oman etc.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 27, 2021, 09:10:43 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 26, 2021, 05:51:32 AM

Let's say ICC gives nod to another structural reforms on revenue model and every one is entitled (Test playing nation) to receive equal amount of money. for example $120 Million each.

Ireland's population = 5 million Revenue contribution = 0.00001%
India's population = 1.35 Billion Revenue contribution = More than 70%

Does that look logical at all? I don't buy this argument of "Equal amount" anymore. BCCI contribute 70%-80% of revenue and after collapse of BIG-3 model they gets 20%-28% of amount back, if you reduce BCCI share now then it would turn into modern version of colonisation in cricket. Where everyone sucking out resources from only one cricketing nation. BTW BCCI is only reason ICC is able to subsidise every associate nation atm and you really want to kill the golden goose?

Whatever you have posted is factually correct and no one is going to argue against those points. All I am asking is that the ICC should follow the same approach being taken by the other sports federations such as FIH, FIFA and FIBA. None of the other federations distribute money as per the population of a particular country (even if that is the case, then China should be receiving more funds from the ICC, since they are also an associate member). Anyway, for me the best solution would be something that is mutually beneficial - the pig-3 agree for more ICC tournaments. If so, the ICC revenues would increase and they can continue with the higher share for BCCI.

You can compare hockey, football etc with cricketing ecosystem but only when there is only 1 format especially shorter format T-20. If not then i believe cricket is more complex and in present situation it has at least 5 version of formats. 3 international (T-20, ODI, Test) and 2 underdeveloped formats - The 100 ball, T-10 and we're not equipped or have will to monetise all formats.

I think i have said this before that only long term solution would be to allow more associate member to participate in T-20 WC (24 teams tournament), that's where big bucks are made. There would be chaos at start for sure, in terms of revenue loss and dud fixtures but this could potentially solve some problems, as far as self sustainability by smaller boards and spreading the game are concern.

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Quote from: GbitG on December 28, 2021, 01:00:04 PM

Mate, It's really not easy to have things normal because in last few years hate business is doing good for all politicians, so hopes are ended, and just ICC is having few events where these can play but in bilateral now it's all end. Kashmir is the biggest issue and no one want to withdraw from this, so It's going to be nothing good in favour of peoples from these two countries. Secondly now recently statements from extreme Hindu groups heating this all.

AFAIk Kashmir is the main cause of tension for both Pakistan and India for last 50 years (thanks to England for creating another problem in the world). But Pakistan and India are playing in 90s and 2000s, it seems like tension is high because of current governments. So its people who will suffer by not watching this interesting series.

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Quote from: galambo on December 28, 2021, 12:54:17 PM

Quote from: TheGreatPython on December 28, 2021, 12:39:58 PM

Here all statements are good about India and Pakistan relationship have no sympathy from anyone, and sadly we are not good enough to do things like UEFA which is the worst part of this area.

I agree that we have no change in next 5 to 10 years and this is not talk able because no party wants to have soft policy for other side, specially now as India is having more control in ICC. Finances are having very big impact in current covid-19 era and India will never allow giving any benefit to them and ICC can't do anything, it's just PCB who has to settle thing for there survive in cricket community.

So we will not see Pak India bilateral series in coming 5 to 10 years. BCCI is getting so much money they can easily sacrifice series with india. Even IPL has zero impact on Pakistan exclusion. Bitter reality is that both pak and India are willing to maintain relations with others but not willing to help each other.

Mate, It's really not easy to have things normal because in last few years hate business is doing good for all politicians, so hopes are ended, and just ICC is having few events where these can play but in bilateral now it's all end. Kashmir is the biggest issue and no one want to withdraw from this, so It's going to be nothing good in favour of peoples from these two countries. Secondly now recently statements from extreme Hindu groups heating this all.

Topic: T20 and T20I cricket prediction and discussion - page 1314. (Read 250905 times)