Topic: Taxless society idea - page 13. (Read 2932 times)

This is not only complicated but pretty foolish too. If we have two currencies among which one of them is inflationary and other is deflationary. What people will do is hoard the deflationary currency which means they will immediately convert their receipt into bitcoin, litecoin which would make the inflationary currency value rip apart to rock bottom. Everyday the exchange rate would increase and increase. Moreover, this is hypothetical situation as if the private sector is paid by the clients in deflationary currency how would they pay their stakeholders in inflationary money?? Community Interest too would not get any funding as the inflationary currency would take a large dip every other day. So this idea is absolute rubbish.

I agree. A better idea would be to remove the direct taxes (income tax, corporate tax.etc) and replace them with higher indirect taxes (Value Added Tax, Goods and Service Tax.etc). This will make sure that the richest category can't use loopholes to avoid paying taxes. Also, the tax base will cover the entire population, rather than those who earn above a certain threshold.

The only way the State could avoid taxes as far as possible goes back to the feudalism idea of the monopoly of specific services/goods, so then the revenues were a huge part of the budget. 

Maybe your idea is great, but I still can't understand it. Taxes are a government revenue and expenditure operating in a country and tax exemptions are unlikely. A tax-free society happens when the government meets all the basic needs of citizens, but even if the richest economy still cannot meet the needs of the people, cryptocurrency is born and thrives is a great thing for our future but it's not a solution. Taxes are an important part of every nation, and without that social taxation hardly exists.

I can't get what you are trying to impose, tax is the source of many. We can't live with our own hands at our own expense taxation is the blood of the government to work, its community projects, government employees even the road you drive is product of taxation. There will be substantial deficits if we don't have taxes and worst case scenario there will be more crimes.

Our society and obligatory fees to finance its common needs have been formed over millennia. With the advent of cryptocurrency, nothing changes in this matter. Cryptocurrency can not do anything new to optimize taxation in the state. Since this activity brings cryptocurrency holders a certain income, it is subject to taxation on a common basis in accordance with the established rules.
We can’t live in a society and do without mandatory tax fees, that is, a tax-free society is impossible.

Taxless, Right look at the Examples:
Monaco_Rich People, Even workers who serve rich People Get Good salary. (The little% saved by Not paying taxes goes to workers from rich)

Now Other Example: Finland and Norway they have heavy taxes.
But Country is well developed government have strong social security system.


Now look at the countries where taxes are not high and not low, they have problems!


So the best way is either no Taxes at all or high taxes like Finland.


You look at the countries like Moldova, ukraine... Baltic countries, those countries the tax is not high but its not low... Its something between, Are they doing fine?  No! 

If the taxes are high then the government must be strong to make sure the tax payers money goes for benefits of citizens!


Me personally will prefer no taxes, we should privatize everything  just   Some% for insurance funding in Case Something goes Wrong the all Country have insurance!

If something is privatized it means someone will have responsebility When someone have responsebility its a thing what Can be Functional.


When Everything is owned by Everybody then nobody will not care about Nothing nobody seems to not have responsebility/liability so that Kind of system Can not last long!

In many countries, if you combine the direct and indirect taxes, they take away 50% to 75% of the net income. I am currently paying close to 30% of my income as personal income tax, and a similar amount in the form of various indirect taxes such as GST and VAT. And after contributing for so much, what I am getting in return? None of the taxpayers would be complaining if the tax revenue is being spent on productive activities.

Rather than spending the tax collections on infrastructure development, education and healthcare, many of the governments around the world wastes them on freebies and bureaucratic expenses. This is counter-productive, as effectively you are taking money from the hard working people and then distributing it to the lazy welfare rats. It discourages people to work hard.

I do believe in the same thing, tax is not so harmful than what you think because this is the main source of budget of our government. Who needs a taxless country? IMHO no one as long as there's no anomaly happening! What we need the most are public servants which have outstanding credibilities and don't have bad intentions, these kind of officials are what we need for handling such huge funds and not those corrupt ones. But the problem is how can we assure that a certain official cannot be blinded by money? Well, I hope they must first undergo extreme tests like secret orgs. do when picking their secret agents — only the purest will remain.

I dont see that government has to be the one who builds a bridge, it can be financed privately and operated by toll charges.   This has worked for hundreds of years and did not prevent the industrial revolution and general society advancement   Theres no rule that has government doing this job best, that is determined by the people around that bridge and its users.  
   We could say the government has the place of maintaining law and order, that the bridge must be operated safely and fairly for society to benefit from even private operation.   All of modern society has a fairly large bias towards the left wing thinking of large government and enforced operation by government.   The problem is governments are inefficient, we do better as a society to have a mix of solutions and a free market that promotes efficiency and even profitability.   Governments typically lose money constantly, are not profitable or efficient hence I do not want large government as it costs me alot.  

   When we get failed government, I do not want my nation to fail also.   Politics is a dirty business often and full of large egos of people who speak too long too often and say little of use compared to plain industry which is productive and useful or fails and costs those who had backed it only, not an entire country.
   Look at Venezuela as a warning if we can do that much, those people who suffer there did not do so in vain but as an example to save us all from loss.     Venezuela dominates their industry, their people and country as an entire asset all is controlled by politics, the military and ultimately it falls to violence and the threat of a massive government crushes the people.  
   The largest greatest fastest growth and most resilient the world over comes from the smallest people and operations in an economy, Bitcoin as a tiny resource should always respect the smallest holders and I hope it will benefit all economies in world trade because of that.

You're blindly repeating the mantra that the government is putting in your mind through media and compulsory education. Taxation is a very wide subject and there's a saying that the more you have the more you spend. Spending a lot and wasting money is where most governments excel and if you cut some of their tax money flow it wouldn't make them disappear, but make them rethink some policies.

One way or another, I believe that taxation in the state should be, because all state structures exist at the expense of taxes.  But at the same time, most of the taxes that fall into the state budget must be paid by entrepreneurs and enterprises, and not by a simple citizen.  In any case, all taxes should remain in local budgets.

Taxation is many countries differs, we have some very high developed countries that pays tax virtually on everything., although they are highly developed, but the burden of tax on most of their citizens is highly expensive and sometime could be unbearable for them, if as they were even paying heavy tax, the government is not corrupt and not milking their tax, they would still have been encourage to continue to do it for the love of their country, but many of the government offices are corrupt that they are the ones that mostly eat the tax that those people pay.

In my own country, our own tax is still quite flexible, but development rate is very slow, and this is why we cannot overrule tax at all, if our taxes was on everything, I am sure our development would have been more than this.

"the Republic of the Marshall Islands has used the US dollar as money. Today we are progressing with our plan to issue a sovereign currency in digital form – using blockchain technology.
...
Our money supply will grow at a sustainable 4% each year, following Milton Friedman’s k% rule. New SOV will be automatically distributed to the currency holders and the decentralized entities securing the network. THIS MEANS THAT WE IN GOVERNMENT CANNOT MODIFY THE MONEY SUPPLY, AND WE CANNOT MANIPULATE THE VALUE OF OUR CURRENCY BY PRINTING MORE MONEY."

Source:
https://www.coindesk.com/why-the-marshall-islands-is-issuing-its-own-cryptocurrency


This is how all states should do and my idea would be achievable.

You are right its not fiction, its a reality and its a disaster all the same.    We are living inside this bubble of money printing, in Japan, USA and Europe.   Because they all print money and consult each other they think this is a system that will not collapse but likely it will anyway.    


This is not capitalism and its not democracy imo.   Its a failure to be forcing companies to follow your particular fiscal policy, we live in a global economy and the most competitive environment is where we should expect the productivity, jobs, the population to do best.   Force is a poor alternative to a system that works naturally and does not require a big rule book to hit people over the head with fines and punishments because natural economics does not agree with your forced ideas.

  I love beautiful design and natural dynamics because humans despite their amazing achievements and potential are still a natural phenomena especially en masse such as an economy and the system of trade between countries across great distances.   Anything that works well reflects current trade and enables to perform better, inflation undermines and destabilizes an economy and especially the people who cannot create new currency.


Its debatable as production will vary by price and also efficiency.  Russia could be the worlds largest producer if it did so in an efficient way.
    Venezuela has the worlds largest proven oil reserves, witness the mess they have made of that great wealth.   The problem is they needed great refinement of their particular oil type, it had to be done carefully and in an adjusted way accounting for price vs costs.   What they got was massive government burden forcing laws on price controls etc and destroying or seizing private companies.    Oil is a great demonstration for how easy it is to screw over what could be wealth and power for a nation.

Not totally fiction. It could be done somehow.

Another way this could work aside my previous suggestion is by getting everything privately run in that country. And focus more on getting people well educated plus provide them with excellent healthcare to increase the quality of the country's human resources. It is important to pay good wages also, to increase the citizens spending power.
I think one of the best ways inflation can be controlled is by making it mandatory for  companies to use a big part of each citizens salary/wages to fund their basic needs like healthcare, education, mortgage etc through companies that provide the basic needs. Consumption of local goods & services must be well encouraged.
 I believe this model would be experimented on a Blockchain-based Country one day.

You can't make a fully Marxists society but just like every single big thinker he did provided with some good stuff as well.

There is stuff you can take from it from socialist approach but there are stuff he lacks as well. For example, Marxist society is purely economical, when it comes to social justice it lacks many many things, just like the Arabic migrants right now all around Europe creating a surge of nationalistic politic parties to get more attention.

Hence, there are stuff you can take like high taxes and than spending it to cover education and healthcare, those are good stuff however when it comes to high taxes enough to make it full blown communism than it turns not so well. Even china is not full blown communist anymore, they are more right than left these days.

Well, I took discussion on whole different thing, I know.
I agree with you, money should be spend for community interest but how can we make sure that whole process will be transparent? What if they won't include all transaction in public blockchain? And limited time usage digital currency doesn't seem a good idea, can't understand the point of this. Are you able to exchange that limited time digital currency? If yes, then how can it protect us from inflation? Doesn't it mean instead of creating 100 orange, you are creating 100 apple that will turn into orange?
Sorry if I misunderstood what you mean but it's not very clear for me.

The idea of putting tax-collecting operations on the blockchain has been discussed for quite some time already, but the governments are in no rush to implement it. That is so because they fear transparency. Unfortunately, a big part (and in many countries the most part) of government representatives are corrupt, and the only thing they care about is their personal gain, rather than prosperity of their citizens.

I think just the opposite.
Government should be connected to the people because it serves the quality of people's life as a state management service and not the other way.
People now have no any rights if the government does not keep its promises.
They have only the right to vote every 4 years in non-transparent and easily manipulated elections.

My idea is not about to stop financing common interest (roads, healthcare...) (see my first post)
With math help inflation can be controlled and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes.

On blockchain everything is transparent and even the amount of "printed" digital money.

State management is government job so government must take FULL RESPONSIBILITY and TRANSPARENCY.