Taxless society idea - page 8. | Bitcointalksearch.org

canovan25

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Quote from: BitunaTeam on August 25, 2019, 06:21:07 PM

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

I dont know, maybe someone talked this phrase, but I think, its will not work. Why? Yes, im suported idea separate money for change and money for preserving. But neither intelligence(nature, synthetic) not be a control money supply so that its a ideal. Its unreal. But money for change may has a inflation rate a 100% or biggest. Total supply of money for change dont have reason for control. But money for preserving... If people has a 21 miillion btc, 84 ltc and other. And I receive ukrainian gryvnia equivalent 5 btc. I want a change this money. But people dont want a change. And I change price btc for buying(price growth). And after month, I will want buy bitcoin yet. Yet growth price.

Sithara007

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Quote from: DaftAjax on October 17, 2019, 02:21:26 AM

What are you talking about? The government funds came from tax, if there's no tax, the government will not move. They cannot provide services, no more public hospitals, public schools, public transportation, etc. they also cannot provide maintenance and order. It will affect the economy horribly as well.

Why do the government need to provide free education and healthcare? Here in India, hardly anyone from the middle class depends on the government hospitals and schools (because the quality is so horrible). Those who can afford, always go for private healthcare and education. And these are the people who pay the taxes to the government without any break.

I am not for the abolishment of tax. But taxes should be kept at a tolerable limit. Here in India, those at the highest tax slab pays almost 42% of their income as tax. On top of that, there are indirect taxes on all goods and services ranging from 5% to 28%. And on top of all these, there is excise duty, capital gains tax and dozens of other types of taxes.

SummerBliss

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We cannot have tax free society which is for sure because tax are basis of every economic system and binds each other and its absence social welfare will be vanished and people will not have to pay for it.Those who earn have a to pay a part of it to the government as they utilize facilities provided to them.We cannot evade the biggest revenue earning source of governmemt.

nasipadang

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In my opinion it will not work fully, tax is the biggest contributor in the country's economic order. In the ideas that you convey, it feels very complicated. First we are in a world where there are leaders in several regions, your idea is good for areas where the country's resources are abundant, taxes are the biggest source of problems for them. Besides, I'm not sure we can use inflationary the way you say.

bitzizzix

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In my opinion, the government policy to provide tax to those who meet the requirements is reasonable, because workers who have a minimum wage are required to pay taxes according to the salary received as a certain percentage and tax to facilitate our needs such as distribution of transportation facilities, health, social sector, operational costs of the state apparatus or other services for the benefit of the state and society.
and those who don't have jobs don't need to be taxed, because they don't have income, so I think community tax is important because it comes from the community and for the community.

jakoylantern

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Quote from: Kambal2000 on October 17, 2019, 12:04:58 PM

Quote from: wxxyrqa on October 16, 2019, 01:17:16 PM

I think that everyone deep down understands the importance of taxes for the country, but he will always resist this, because there are a lot of points why I like taxes to many people. It can be either small salaries, or maybe too much taxes. Someone can be very greedy and therefore taxes are indignant. But we must understand that the state exists not only thanks to state enterprises, but also due to taxes, through which there are social guarantees in the country, there are various structures, including medicine, the police, and security. Any utilities also depend on taxpayers. Therefore, before expressing our dissatisfaction with taxes, we can think about the real existence of our country.

Here in our country, we do have some salary bracket in paying taxes, those who are earning minimum salary are not required to pay income taxes, and many more, the bad thing is that seems like those who are earning higher don't have much take out money since they are oblige to pay high tax, so for me, it is not fair at all. Still, in the end we need to pay taxes for the benefit of the whole nation.

For me, it's fair because we have a minimum salary wage, and if you are in the minimum wage and paying almost the same amount of income taxes to those ppl that have above that minimum salary grade ( 20k up), it's quite an unfair right. The government conducts the study and the reason why those ppl are not required to pay some income taxes anymore because the minimum salary wage that there are earning is just sufficient to there daily bills/ cost of living. Take note that your salary wage is depending on what salary grade you are, and also, we have provincial rates and national rates.

Kambal2000

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Quote from: wxxyrqa on October 16, 2019, 01:17:16 PM

I think that everyone deep down understands the importance of taxes for the country, but he will always resist this, because there are a lot of points why I like taxes to many people. It can be either small salaries, or maybe too much taxes. Someone can be very greedy and therefore taxes are indignant. But we must understand that the state exists not only thanks to state enterprises, but also due to taxes, through which there are social guarantees in the country, there are various structures, including medicine, the police, and security. Any utilities also depend on taxpayers. Therefore, before expressing our dissatisfaction with taxes, we can think about the real existence of our country.

Here in our country, we do have some salary bracket in paying taxes, those who are earning minimum salary are not required to pay income taxes, and many more, the bad thing is that seems like those who are earning higher don't have much take out money since they are oblige to pay high tax, so for me, it is not fair at all. Still, in the end we need to pay taxes for the benefit of the whole nation.

DaftAjax

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Quote from: Bustart on October 16, 2019, 10:59:54 PM

But that's for sure politician has the desire to steal people's money, and if taxless society would benefit this platform it would bring a lot of opportunity.

You could say that. But the government is dependent on tax. All of their operations, services provided are being funded by the tax. That's why I would argue that citizens should be the ones to change. Only then, righteous people are to be elected/appointed. We can't really do anything about corrupt politicians, the government themselves deal with them.

Quote from: Bustart on October 16, 2019, 10:59:54 PM

Government funds will only be used for basic commodities like implementing taxes on local purchased goods, and not the hard earnings of the individuals

What are you talking about? The government funds came from tax, if there's no tax, the government will not move. They cannot provide services, no more public hospitals, public schools, public transportation, etc. they also cannot provide maintenance and order. It will affect the economy horribly as well.

Bustart

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Quote from: DaftAjax on October 16, 2019, 10:44:10 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: doomistake on October 16, 2019, 11:03:34 AM

Our power is limitless as a citizen who pays taxes, we can't assure ourselves if the taxes that we are paying to the government is being use on its true purpose, it is exasperating because we want to do something about it to make it right but we can't do a thing since we are just normal citizens that is under the authority of the Government, we could shout our opinions and emotions about the taxes that are being stolen by the corrupt government official by rallying, however we can't make them to do the right thing if they are fools and trying to play being deaf.

I don't agree to what you said that we cannot do anything about it. We can really do something to the government officials to avoid experiencing the same thing from corrupt officials and that is to not vote them in the next election. It is us who put them on their position and for the next voting, we should be wise and just vote the candidates that are responsible enough to get the position and that is how we are going to make sure that everything will be alright.

I don't think that's going to be that simple. I would argue/doubt that other citizens will agree to you, just because you said something. Don't forget that politicians are not the only corrupt, sometimes (most of the time) the citizens are the ones who corrupt themselves by voting a corrupt candidate in exchange for money. How ironic isn't it? The change you seek doesn't have to be by the government or the officials, but by citizens, like it or not we're half responsible on this one.

But that's for sure politician has the desire to steal people's money, and if taxless society would benefit this platform it would bring a lot of opportunity. Government funds will only be used for basic commodities like implementing taxes on local purchased goods, and not the hard earnings of the individuals

DaftAjax

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: doomistake on October 16, 2019, 11:03:34 AM

Our power is limitless as a citizen who pays taxes, we can't assure ourselves if the taxes that we are paying to the government is being use on its true purpose, it is exasperating because we want to do something about it to make it right but we can't do a thing since we are just normal citizens that is under the authority of the Government, we could shout our opinions and emotions about the taxes that are being stolen by the corrupt government official by rallying, however we can't make them to do the right thing if they are fools and trying to play being deaf.

I don't agree to what you said that we cannot do anything about it. We can really do something to the government officials to avoid experiencing the same thing from corrupt officials and that is to not vote them in the next election. It is us who put them on their position and for the next voting, we should be wise and just vote the candidates that are responsible enough to get the position and that is how we are going to make sure that everything will be alright.

I don't think that's going to be that simple. I would argue/doubt that other citizens will agree to you, just because you said something. Don't forget that politicians are not the only corrupt, sometimes (most of the time) the citizens are the ones who corrupt themselves by voting a corrupt candidate in exchange for money. How ironic isn't it? The change you seek doesn't have to be by the government or the officials, but by citizens, like it or not we're half responsible on this one.

wxxyrqa

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I think that everyone deep down understands the importance of taxes for the country, but he will always resist this, because there are a lot of points why I like taxes to many people. It can be either small salaries, or maybe too much taxes. Someone can be very greedy and therefore taxes are indignant. But we must understand that the state exists not only thanks to state enterprises, but also due to taxes, through which there are social guarantees in the country, there are various structures, including medicine, the police, and security. Any utilities also depend on taxpayers. Therefore, before expressing our dissatisfaction with taxes, we can think about the real existence of our country.

doomistake

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Zeke_23 on October 13, 2019, 06:47:51 AM

Quote from: Colt81 on October 13, 2019, 05:56:56 AM

Quote from: matchi2011 on October 07, 2019, 12:43:21 PM

Quote from: Genemind on October 07, 2019, 11:58:04 AM

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

I strongly agree that taxes is very important in a country because it is a contribution of every citizen in their country. The reason why we pay taxes to our government because it provides the needs of every citizen in their country which they can also use it to build establishments like public schools, hospitals, highways, centers and many more, that is why without paying taxes it will be difficult for us to build such establishment and improve a certain country. People just don't want to pay taxes due to corruption that they don't trust their government that they will use it for good.

It is truly important, taxes are not only used for the development of the country itself, but also to fund new discovery and upgrades we need in life. We have technology today because of our tax, tax is being used to buy goods and services from other country, and services from government officials/public sectors. If tax does not exist, a county won't be called a country anymore.

People will not hesitate to pay taxes if they have surety that they are being used for the welfare of people or humanity on the whole. Most of the taxes we pay are used for security and developing war materials. We shall never ever completely trust governments in regard of taxes because all governments are led by few violent people who want common people to obey them.

Our power is limitless as a citizen who pays taxes, we can't assure ourselves if the taxes that we are paying to the government is being use on its true purpose, it is exasperating because we want to do something about it to make it right but we can't do a thing since we are just normal citizens that is under the authority of the Government, we could shout our opinions and emotions about the taxes that are being stolen by the corrupt government official by rallying, however we can't make them to do the right thing if they are fools and trying to play being deaf.

DaftAjax

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Quote from: deisik on October 15, 2019, 06:45:54 AM

Quote from: DaftAjax on October 15, 2019, 03:40:14 AM

~snip

But that's what already happens (and has been happening all this time)

People are often stigmatized and labeled for just being different from the rest of the pack, and I don't necessarily mean some difference sort of carved in stone, so to speak. You can just have an opinion somewhat different from the party line, and already be a target for communal disdain and contempt. On the other hand, if you gain support and bring in enough people, you can do the same thing against those who so foolishly chose to disrespect you

In other words, the balance is still going to be mostly the same, i.e. more power means more responsibility, but on average it will level out to what we have right now. As you can see, we can change the variables (or the limits) in pretty wide range here but without dramatically affecting the bottom line, which basically means we do not need to "enhance" the human being itself as it all revolves around environment (which we can change)

I despise that kind of mentality. Just because the majority of people does it, doesn't mean everybody should. That's what I hate about the Media, most of their (so-called) information isn't relevant at all, I even consider it as propaganda. I apologize, it's a bit of a sidetrack there.

Right. But its gonna be hard. This is gonna be ironic, but my suggestion is to use the media (we can't deny how powerful it is). But I doubt the government would just sit idly.

Quote from: deisik on October 15, 2019, 06:45:54 AM

Quote from: DaftAjax on October 15, 2019, 03:40:14 AM

~snip

It is still a difference of degree, not of kind or substance (read, it will be a gradual change)

Maybe, but in order to reach such a degree, time is still essential.

darewaller

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Quote from: ?? on ??

People will not hesitate to pay taxes if they have surety that they are being used for the welfare of people or humanity on the whole. Most of the taxes we pay are used for security and developing war materials. We shall never ever completely trust governments in regard of taxes because all governments are led by few violent people who want common people to obey them.

They might be using it for some of the interest that you stated here, but the government are still not as bad as not using it for what will benefit their citizens, if you look at developed countries like the America, people like to travel over there for tourism from their own country, and the reason why they do so is because the government is really spending money to develop their country which the citizen are enjoying.

The pride alone that it brings to the citizen is much more than enough, let us take a look at DUBAI also, how would they have been able to build the city to that taste before they turned it to an entrepreneur country if not that they were also able to get some taxes from their citizens also to do so, so not matter what we think, it is better we pay for tax and we get some good things we can get even if they use it to build those war things sometimes, than not to pay tax.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: Zeke_23 on October 13, 2019, 06:47:51 AM

Quote from: Colt81 on October 13, 2019, 05:56:56 AM

Quote from: matchi2011 on October 07, 2019, 12:43:21 PM

Quote from: Genemind on October 07, 2019, 11:58:04 AM

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

I strongly agree that taxes is very important in a country because it is a contribution of every citizen in their country. The reason why we pay taxes to our government because it provides the needs of every citizen in their country which they can also use it to build establishments like public schools, hospitals, highways, centers and many more, that is why without paying taxes it will be difficult for us to build such establishment and improve a certain country. People just don't want to pay taxes due to corruption that they don't trust their government that they will use it for good.

It is truly important, taxes are not only used for the development of the country itself, but also to fund new discovery and upgrades we need in life. We have technology today because of our tax, tax is being used to buy goods and services from other country, and services from government officials/public sectors. If tax does not exist, a county won't be called a country anymore.

People will not hesitate to pay taxes if they have surety that they are being used for the welfare of people or humanity on the whole. Most of the taxes we pay are used for security and developing war materials. We shall never ever completely trust governments in regard of taxes because all governments are led by few violent people who want common people to obey them.

It should be on balance where those taxes would be utilized which is on development and security.It will really vary on the government that would handle and managed up those funds.Yes, we cant trust them completely because there would always be corruption or misused of funds and it will really be justified most likely on countries which
do have slow progress.

Taxless society idea is somewhat a dumb one because these funds do play out a major role on a countries development and progress.
The only problem here is the governing bodies that would handle and manage these funds carefully.

BChydro

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Quote from: Silberman on October 15, 2019, 11:52:18 AM

Governments can create laws to tax cryptocurrencies, that is correct, what they cannot do is to impose a tax on cryptocurrencies, that is precisely what it is driving them crazy, they have no way to force people to pay taxes

Why would any government force people to pay taxes if they are not getting any profit out of it, if the concept of tax can be tweaked then all these issues will be sorted, if people are converting their bitcoin to fiat currency and if they are doing it through the proper channel then they will naturally pay the tax.

Quote from: Silberman on October 15, 2019, 11:52:18 AM

from their activities on cryptocurrencies because they have no control of the bitcoin network and even if at some point they achieve control of the bitcoin network those that are smart will see it coming and will just move to another cryptocurrency that is not controlled by the government.

No government can control the bitcoin network and hence it is a truly decentralized network and if not for bitcoin which coin you can trust Roll Eyes

.

Silberman

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Quote from: GreenStox on October 15, 2019, 10:55:01 AM

indeed at this time seems to have started to develop digital currency and there are many platforms that use payments using cash, meaning that now has begun to reduce payments using cash, all of them prefer to make payments more easily by digital currency.

But I think the government will impose a tax on everyone who gets money from online including from Crypto. Although later they set Crypto as one the methods of payment but they will also impose tax with it. And we as citizens who obey the law, of course we must obey it.

Governments can create laws to tax cryptocurrencies, that is correct, what they cannot do is to impose a tax on cryptocurrencies, that is precisely what it is driving them crazy, they have no way to force people to pay taxes from their activities on cryptocurrencies because they have no control of the bitcoin network and even if at some point they achieve control of the bitcoin network those that are smart will see it coming and will just move to another cryptocurrency that is not controlled by the government.

GreenStox

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indeed at this time seems to have started to develop digital currency and there are many platforms that use payments using cash, meaning that now has begun to reduce payments using cash, all of them prefer to make payments more easily by digital currency.

Edraket31

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Quote from: blckhawk on October 13, 2019, 11:39:55 PM

I don't think it would be good and I don't agree on implementing it. A taxless society is a society without government, without enforcers of the law, everything would be chaos. No one would follow anyone. As much as we hate taxes, we cannot avoid them and we should not. The problem arises when the people on the government has corrupted ideas. We cannot live on a perfect society since we, ourselves, the people aren't perfect. The government maintains order, we still need to use these centralized currencies and pay our part or else we would only live for ourselves.

Exactly, we don't need to implement such thing, we need to have a government and if will remove taxation then how are we going to rule the world. Without the fund that came from taxation no one would like to be a leader as we don't have fund to implement rules and make a project. Right now, what we need is to lessen the tax so that it won't be a big burden for those who are just earning small amount.

Aying

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Quote from: blckhawk on October 13, 2019, 11:39:55 PM

I don't think it would be good and I don't agree on implementing it. A taxless society is a society without government, without enforcers of the law, everything would be chaos. No one would follow anyone. As much as we hate taxes, we cannot avoid them and we should not. The problem arises when the people on the government has corrupted ideas. We cannot live on a perfect society since we, ourselves, the people aren't perfect. The government maintains order, we still need to use these centralized currencies and pay our part or else we would only live for ourselves.

I agree with you.. taxless society won't be easy. everyone has its own freedom but with tax society its limited. without it how people will live with neutral way? Crypto society with our wanted freedom, if this implemented without any study it maybe cause any trouble. we know that this will have advantage but we didn't know yet how percentage we can get. so we need to analyze it more.

Topic: Taxless society idea - page 8. (Read 2932 times)