Taxless society idea - page 16. | Bitcointalksearch.org

deisik

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Quote from: RealMalatesta on August 28, 2019, 03:15:17 AM

I have an idea of exact opposite. Moneyless country, nobody makes any money and there is no money involved, there is no tax, nothing costs money at all. Considering there is wealth hoarding all around the world right now and rich people are making sure they get all the money in the world while keeping others poor, its obvious that our current monetary system doesn't work

No money no honey

Inventing money was a huge step ahead for humanity, quite comparable to control of fire by early humans. Without money (whatever form it may take or however inefficient it may be), we would still be mostly hunter-gatherers. Without money, the division of labor wouldn't be possible, which is at the basis of all wealth created in the past and that which is to be created in the future (even though it is not straightforward to grasp). Conceptually, money removes the factor of time as well as space from the equation of the exchange of goods and services. This is a big deal

Betwrong

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Quote from: RealMalatesta on August 28, 2019, 03:15:17 AM

I have an idea of exact opposite. Moneyless country, nobody makes any money and there is no money involved, there is no tax, nothing costs money at all. Considering there is wealth hoarding all around the world right now and rich people are making sure they get all the money in the world while keeping others poor, its obvious that our current monetary system doesn't work.

So, it will be first come first serve type of world, everyone will work somewhere, governments job will be putting everyone into works they can work unless people can find their own job of course in which case people can work wherever they want. In return government will make sure everything gets done, there is no money so there is no reason not to fix the problems countries have since they won't face budget problems.

Moneyless societies existed thousands years ago, but they all failed. Many people don't want to work, but they want to eat and be entertained. So they gather in groups and rob those who work, raping the sh*t out of them, male and female. That's how barbarians used to live, but they were eventually defeated by more cultured and sophisticated societies, who, btw, used money already.

But I'm not trying to say that current economic system is perfect. It has some big flaws, and it should be replaced by something new and more effective, but by something entirely new, not by something from the distant past.

RealMalatesta

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I have an idea of exact opposite. Moneyless country, nobody makes any money and there is no money involved, there is no tax, nothing costs money at all. Considering there is wealth hoarding all around the world right now and rich people are making sure they get all the money in the world while keeping others poor, its obvious that our current monetary system doesn't work.

So, it will be first come first serve type of world, everyone will work somewhere, governments job will be putting everyone into works they can work unless people can find their own job of course in which case people can work wherever they want. In return government will make sure everything gets done, there is no money so there is no reason not to fix the problems countries have since they won't face budget problems.

Tylev

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In general, the idea of a tax-free society is stupid and practically impracticable. No society without taxes will last long. I am from Ukraine and a good example of this is our army. It seemed that we were among friendly states and therefore reduced our nuclear arsenal, abandoned the status of a nuclear power, and went on a sharp reduction in the army. As a result, the state, which we considered closest to us, took advantage of this: Russia. Now she has invaded our territory, captured part of it and is killing our citizens. Only thanks to volunteer battalions we defended our independence and now we are building the most powerful army in Europe. And for this we introduced additional taxes.
There has long been a true saying - if the people do not want to feed their army, they will inevitably feed someone else's. Such an example can be given in any industry.

Ucy

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I'd go for multiple sources of income for a Blockchain society. People wouldn't bother about taxes as long as they are living comfortable lives and is tax transparently spent on things they choose by themselves. If you can guarantee basic needs of life without straining a Blockchain economy, people will happily and proudly pay their taxes.

Schirer

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I am not sure if i understand your idea as you intended.

So all the government expenses would made of thin air and would amount to crypto currencies value decrease?

I dont think that any taxless society can exist , if there is no other source of income like oil .

Theb

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The idea in it sense looks good but if you dig deeper you will see a big hole in your plan. First of all how will you get everything financed from a taxless society? You mentioned about healthcare, pensions, and other projects but how do you this things can be accomplish if the government doesn't even have any income coming from taxes? What will be the other alternative for them to have income? Because I don't see how the government will just be dependent on their citizens' contributions since it will be a slow development waiting for donations just to start a project. And of course a taxless society would only be a center of abuse for the top 1% in this kind of society the rich would be more richer and they'll be more powerful than the government running the society.

deisik

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Quote from: RapTarX on August 27, 2019, 03:17:48 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on August 26, 2019, 11:00:13 PM

It's good in paper but it's more complex at it seems, you need full cooperation for public and private sector so most likely they will clash in the end. Plus will government allow that kind of setup? I don't think that they would allow old and traditional just run over by crypto is this is what you are trying to drive out here.

That's being said-
“Everyone can create money; the problem is to get it accepted“-- Hyman Minsky.

If there's no tax, how do the central authority will develop the country? Who will fund them?

As this Minsky guy said, everyone can create money

But apart from everyone else, the central authority (otherwise known as government) can also force their money into acceptance by the local populace. That technically means they have a sufficient leeway in how much they can print and that basically answers your question. The government can fund their expenditures by simple money-printing (it is called an inflation tax, for the inquiring minds). Indeed, there are limits to this effort but any government at some point had been doing exactly that in the past, and there is no reason to believe that they won't in the future. Such is life and then they start the printing press

vintages

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Quote from: BitunaTeam on August 25, 2019, 07:12:40 PM

I think that taxless society can be possible with just more transparency and with more math.

I doubt it, not when we still have the government.
Even math can't help much here.
State governments live on tax, without tax a country won't be up to standard and guess what, the people will complain.
The only thing agreeable here is a transparent system for tax payment. This is where blockchain can come to play, if there is true transparency, every tax issued won't be as highly charged as it is now.

iMark

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Quote from: acroman08 on August 27, 2019, 04:16:54 AM

Quote from: RapTarX on August 27, 2019, 03:17:48 AM

If there's no tax, how do the central authority will develop the country? Who will fund them?

this is what the OP suggested

Quote from: BitunaTeam on August 25, 2019, 05:21:07 PM

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

it always makes me laugh when people talks about the possibility of tax-less society. it is easy to think up of an Idea about tax-less society but putting it into action is almost
impossible.

A rich country because of tax income, and people have the idea to erase it and convince many people that the country can survive from other income, That is the weirdest idea I hear the most, taxes have been around for hundreds of years, and tax income is very important for the country's development, arguably tax is one of the biggest contributors to the state budget, the country will surely collapse if it removes taxes.

Betwrong

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I stand with Ukraine.

Quote from: BitunaTeam on August 25, 2019, 05:21:07 PM

~
What do you think is this can be done to work?

I'm sorry but I can't see the difference between what you proposed and what we already have with the fiat money printed by central banks. To me it looks like you suggest replacing the fiat with some crypto that has the same properties. Will it work? It can. But aren't we having that already?

guoyu78

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Sounds like a good idea but do you think that economist does not know this? The idea looks nice but have you ever thought of the effect of it on the society? And have you ever seen the effect of printing of too much money before and even if you suggest it gets burned, but in a lawless society, do you think they will be able to follow that rule strictly. I think the taxing system is better of that what you have here brother.

We can only try to fight for a reduced tax on the society but not to fight against its policy, tax is also what is used to bring law also you know. Look at the use of electricity, the tax they pay on that would make anyone no to waste power, so that has also help to put order aside the development of the country you earlier mentioned.

acroman08

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Quote from: RapTarX on August 27, 2019, 03:17:48 AM

If there's no tax, how do the central authority will develop the country? Who will fund them?

this is what the OP suggested

Quote from: BitunaTeam on August 25, 2019, 05:21:07 PM

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

it always makes me laugh when people talks about the possibility of tax-less society. it is easy to think up of an Idea about tax-less society but putting it into action is almost
impossible.

RapTarX

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Quote from: btc_angela on August 26, 2019, 11:00:13 PM

It's good in paper but it's more complex at it seems, you need full cooperation for public and private sector so most likely they will clash in the end. Plus will government allow that kind of setup? I don't think that they would allow old and traditional just run over by crypto is this is what you are trying to drive out here.

That's being said-
“Everyone can create money; the problem is to get it accepted“-- Hyman Minsky.

If there's no tax, how do the central authority will develop the country? Who will fund them?

Quote

With or without transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

What if inflation/deflation arise in the economy? Can circulation of a single coin can be done both deflation or inflation? If not, the same of the current economy will be reflected again.

btc_angela

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It's good in paper but it's more complex at it seems, you need full cooperation for public and private sector so most likely they will clash in the end. Plus will government allow that kind of setup? I don't think that they would allow old and traditional just run over by crypto is this is what you are trying to drive out here.

Cemploon

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People will surely be pleased with no taxes, but whether this can happen live without taxes. Governments provide taxes as every country needs development.

Your idea I think its hard to be true. With the tax, everyone can get economic growth and not just development.

BitHodler

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Quote from: jaocoincrypto18 on August 26, 2019, 03:47:24 AM

No government will be able to survive if they will not rely on taxes that will use to sustain the government spending for the welfare of their people. Except if the certain government has lot of income generating properties that enough to support the people needs then Income taxation will not be truly necessary.

I don't think we'll ever see governments be competitive enough in the world to not need taxation, but they actually can do a whole lot more to not subject us to insane taxation laws that are similar to theft.

Governments have become so lazy due to the printing of money, that they don't see the need to become more competitive as country. If you also have a secondary income through taxation, what more do they need?

Instead of getting taxed less throughout the years, we have been taxed more. We're nothing but walking bank accounts they can access whenever they think it's necessary. Undecided

Febo

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Quote from: BitunaTeam on August 25, 2019, 05:21:07 PM

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

That will not work. It is a premine or taxmine as zcash and dash have. It is stolen from miners and will never be approved by regulators.

rjbtc2017

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It depends, if there is a replacement for Tax- which is one of the sources of profits/fund of the Government to make their Departments function, then it will be okay, but the design of the current Government system is the one which actually worked, it's traditional and trusted by the mass.

audaciousbeing

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An economy without taxes is one that is bound to fail. It just cannot work no matter under the guise which its going to be entertained. From time immemorial even before the advent of money as a measure for the payment of taxes or the understanding of the complex economics terms such as the impact of the GDP or impact on inflation or deflation as the case may be, taxes has been something human being have also paid in one way or the other because its a fabric that hold the society together. Not only to create money for people running government but also to maintain stability in the social economic strata.

Topic: Taxless society idea - page 16. (Read 2964 times)