Topic: Taxless society idea - page 4. (Read 2932 times)

I don't know if indiscriminately increasing tax is the best solution but, here in the Philippines, you see our country had a considerable amount of debt from the past, and right now the economy is facing inflation. Now like I said, I don't know if it's the wisest decision to make but the current president is doing everything he can to make the country great again. I also would like to mention that, I think he doesn't want to touch other funds just to pay these debts (unlike what the past presidents did) so maybe this is his alternative.

That aside, people who blame the rich because of their situation are stupid. No one should think that way. Instead, as mentioned, blame the system.

The truth is that there are no easy solutions for this, a level of taxation is necessary but as demonstrated by the Laffer curve there comes a point in which increasing taxes will not bring greater revenue for the government, but governments are always arguing that they can keep increasing taxes indiscriminately and still get more money to get even bigger, and while many blame the rich it is incorrect to do so, many of those that achieved great wealth began as middle class individuals that just became successful and are generating wealth for themselves as well as goods, services and jobs, so confiscating their wealth may bring some temporal profit to the government but in the long term it will be detrimental to the economy as we see in countries that did this like Venezuela.

Well, everyone can start analyzing and deducing like you, they can certainly find many reasons for paying taxes and what the money is being used for, and for a nation, tax is essential for the government to build a safe and strong place, without it, we would hardly have a peaceful and developed life, buildings and architecture, good medical conditions, it's all from our taxes, I don't understand why we want to deny this benefit. Sometimes, it may be too high, even some people think the government system is corrupt this money but very few, it cannot compare with the benefits we receive

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

If we are going to have a taxless system then it will just destroy our nation. Taxless means there will be no fund for the government to continue or start the concepts or ideas that they have to improve the current situation of a certain nation. Taxes are essential and without these, we will not attain all the things that we are currently enjoying.

I dont go with the elites idea and the 1% and how unfair it is, that is the whining culture and its not going to solve anything to go after the rich as if that can solve the overall economy of a country.   If I really believed it'd work I'd not object however silly but its not going to work in any case possible.  Confiscation,  taxation to the point of obstruction, red tape or outright royal/politcal charter however its phrased its not going to be a better system then open competitive capitalism.
   The reason is there in history, we have tried high taxes before and it gains less revenue then allowing the best economy possible and taxing all more evenly.  Ideally government should not be so giant that it requires to become a burden, then theres a problem like Greece had I guess was partly related to that.

Totally right and before we even discuss any change the rich people already have a lawyer standing ready for their whole family.  Their companies if they own any employ lawyers and the bigger the company the more powerful this effect becomes.   This is where rich have the advantage over the poor, scales of economy can work against the very weakest in society as they become unable to fight the battles that a company or rich individual can.   I dont blame people for being rich, I blame the system for not serving the poorest people.
   The blame I find most easily apparent is in the smallest units of currency, it has to represent capitalism which is why I disagree with this idea of inflation being a harmless tax when its actually the very worst type almost.

They're not the only ones to blame actually, people that are in the high society (elites) have their own ways of preventing, or should I say dodging on paying taxes. They could just literally hire a lawyer and that's it. That's is why people who are in the lower society (low~mid) are the ones suffering from paying high-cost taxes, that results of inflation--and the reason why inflations exists in an economy is that people that supposed to pay their taxes, don't pay and budgets that are supposed to be spent in the designated projects are being collected by politicians.

It wouldnt be a question of deserves exactly, are those recipients of welfare also tax payers then to some extent its justified to make sure they survive another day to pay more tax in future, doesnt have to be about being nice at all just consider it some investment in a future resource.
   Of course if there is fraud of some kind then its another matter but a plain lack of job is comparable to private insure possible for gaps in employment so its not so unusual.   It does mean higher taxes though, I'd also argue in favour of heath care again because you want to look after people who pay tax so its justified imo.  I really prefer a small government and less tax on an economy but people are great investments also.

Taxes are the lifeblood of the government, from this money the government can have projects like large scale infrastructures, or to spend on health, education, etc that is to give back to the people in terms of projects which is beneficial to constituents. The problem here is the elected officials if they are corrupt, dishonest and serving only their self-interest.

IMO, more than 90% of the welfare recipients doesn't deserve the government funds. The welfare system is vastly misused, especially in the developed nations. In order to gain votes, the leftist parties (such as the Democrats in the United States) have made it possible for undeserving people to claim welfare payments. This needs to change.

The more you ask for the government to do, the more taxes they need to charge to you, the bigger the government becomes and at same time it becomes more inefficient, governments should charge as little taxes as possible just in order to function properly, but that is not what we see now, governments are charging you a huge amount of taxes and supposedly all of that money should go back to you in the form of services but that is not the case because politicians are stealing that money, while we need a society that pays taxes to the government, governments have abused that power and are stealing too much money from the population.

I don't have respect for the people that run my country, but I agree with you that taxless society is an unreasonable idea. We need to pay taxes to have roads, hospitals, schools, and other stuff, it should be free for all! The current tax system is abused by government officials, they are getting richer, now everything costs, we pay taxes but we pay for roads too, for hospitals too, we even pay for school. We pay for everything, but what we get from that? In my country the situation is chaotic.

I think this is unreasonable. You are just thinking about your personality and not respecting the people who run the country. Do you think each individual can build a beautiful country? No, it should have a good leader.
I am in favor of regular tax payments because it can help the government build roads and things that make our country better. Despite many conclusions that the political system is corrupt, I still don't care, when a country has no leader, our country will soon be chaotic. I consider corrupt money to be the cost of running the country. What do you think ?

Then most likely the responsibility to help those in need will fall in the shoulders of charities, and while it is clear that charities do not receive enough support from the population, however most of the time this has to do with the fact that many people think that they are already paying too many taxes and they are not willing to part ways with even more of their money, but in a taxless society it should be expected that the population supports charities way more strongly.

If so, what I'm pointing out really is the "amount", well, not literally the amount being paid but the number of things to work on. As you mentioned, back then it's only as simple as weaving, making wine (tho there still is), but what my point is, it's not the same as now.

I guess what I really want to point out is that there are many things to consider now, compared to back then.

But then, what do you think will be the situation with social guarantees for vulnerable sections of the population?  The fact is that today a fairly large number of citizens depend on state programs and it is not only in services or public places, like roads or bridges.

You are absolutely right. The so called "poor and homeless" can't expect the more well off citizens to take care of them for eternity. Eventually, they need to contribute to the society in some form. They can provide manpower for various infra-structure projects, such as the construction of roads, bridges, railway lines.etc, or they can contribute in the law enforcement department.

You seem to have messed up with quoting

So I fixed it for you in my reply and advise you to do the same in yours lest you should be accused for plagiarizing your own comment. Regarding the poor and the homeless, the solution seems to be straightforward and kind of intuitive. It is these unlucky ones which should provide these services (some part thereof). Obviously, not the high-end services which require skill and expertise, but simple and easy ones. The problem solved

It fact, this is pretty much how it happens now. The rich pay the taxes, and through these taxes the lowest strata of society get their support and sustenance. In this way, the removal of taxes could actually make the lives of these people better by encouraging them to be productive and useful to the society as a whole (instead of being parasites)

As you say, they will pay as a service.  If this happens, people with income can benefit from these services in the most professional way.  What about the poor, the homeless, who will protect them and provide services to them?  If what you say happens, that country is scary.

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.