Ok so we know how many points a winner gets but there are points for other stages,
this is a view of those so from the diagram Djokovic only has to enter one of the two remaining
1000 masters tournaments or even a lesser 250 or 500 tournament to make some
points but Medvedev has to pack his schedule to earn points.
Its a visual
Topic: Tennis League All Thread - page 374. (Read 203687 times)
It could be neck and neck between them, battling for #1.
If we are asking whether he can overtake Djokovic by the end of the year, then there's no need to look at current ranking points, and who has what from last year to drop.
Instead we only need to look at the race points, from the season so far. Medvedev has a 2,000 point deficit, or thereabouts. It's a big ask to overcome that by the end of the season. Even if he won everything, it would need Djokovic to score very very low points.
There are still 2 ATP masters 1000 tournaments that give quite a lot of points if Medvedev wins it, actually his win at the US Open will not necessarily make him able to win the remaining ATP 1000, only if that happens the point difference with Djokovic will be smaller and his chances of replacing Djokovic are very likely, however Djokovic's record as the most weeks in first position will still difficult to surpass other players maybe even this will last a long time.
I don't think he's likely to overtake Djokovic in ranking points. If we look at the race points, he's still 2k behind. We have to remember that Medvedev has 1,500 points from last year's ATP finals to defend.
But a lot will depend on Djokovic's motivation. I can't see that he has anything left to achieve outside the slams. How does he maintain his motivation in lesser tournaments?
It might take the whole tennis tournament for Medvedev to overtake Djokovic in the number 1.
First, if Djokovic doesn't play or only play less tournaments next year and didn't won.
Second, Medvedev winning all the tournaments he entered net year.
So most likely it will also be hard to overcome the lead of Djokovic for now. This elite players is also motivated, specially after you lost a big grand slam this year. So for sure Djokovic wanted to comeback again and won tournaments as many as he can.
It could be neck and neck between them, battling for #1.
Here is an image grab from wikipedia, is shows the points structure for the 1000 tournaments,
Winner gets 1000 obviously with the other finalist winning 600.
As @Trofo posted there are 2 tournaments left, Shanghai Masters and Paris Masters,
Medvedev is the current holder of both titles.
In Shanghai 2019 the last tournament Djokovic only managed the Quarter finals
and I dont think he was at the Paris Masters.
There are still 2 ATP masters 1000 tournaments that give quite a lot of points if Medvedev wins it, actually his win at the US Open will not necessarily make him able to win the remaining ATP 1000, only if that happens the point difference with Djokovic will be smaller and his chances of replacing Djokovic are very likely, however Djokovic's record as the most weeks in first position will still difficult to surpass other players maybe even this will last a long time.
I don't think he's likely to overtake Djokovic in ranking points. If we look at the race points, he's still 2k behind. We have to remember that Medvedev has 1,500 points from last year's ATP finals to defend.
But a lot will depend on Djokovic's motivation. I can't see that he has anything left to achieve outside the slams. How does he maintain his motivation in lesser tournaments?
It might take the whole tennis tournament for Medvedev to overtake Djokovic in the number 1.
First, if Djokovic doesn't play or only play less tournaments next year and didn't won.
Second, Medvedev winning all the tournaments he entered net year.
So most likely it will also be hard to overcome the lead of Djokovic for now. This elite players is also motivated, specially after you lost a big grand slam this year. So for sure Djokovic wanted to comeback again and won tournaments as many as he can.
~snip
Have no idea how many points each of them got last year so that is why I gave general example.
Have no idea how many points each of them got last year so that is why I gave general example.
it does depends only on Djokovic until the end of the season, Medvedev won all tournaments until the end last season (Shanghai, Paris, Nitto Finals), so he cannot get new points, even if win everything again
Djokovic is actually defending some 2000 points on these tournaments, Tokyo 500 win included, so he has to drop early-on on all tournaments to drop no.1 before the season end
AO is the first possible place to drop no.1 IMO, he won it, Medvedev lost final, so in case that next year would be opposite, that is 1600 points on Medvedev to overcome
There are still 2 ATP masters 1000 tournaments that give quite a lot of points if Medvedev wins it, actually his win at the US Open will not necessarily make him able to win the remaining ATP 1000, only if that happens the point difference with Djokovic will be smaller and his chances of replacing Djokovic are very likely, however Djokovic's record as the most weeks in first position will still difficult to surpass other players maybe even this will last a long time.
I don't think he's likely to overtake Djokovic in ranking points. If we look at the race points, he's still 2k behind. We have to remember that Medvedev has 1,500 points from last year's ATP finals to defend.
But a lot will depend on Djokovic's motivation. I can't see that he has anything left to achieve outside the slams. How does he maintain his motivation in lesser tournaments?
There are still 2 ATP masters 1000 tournaments that give quite a lot of points if Medvedev wins it, actually his win at the US Open will not necessarily make him able to win the remaining ATP 1000, only if that happens the point difference with Djokovic will be smaller and his chances of replacing Djokovic are very likely, however Djokovic's record as the most weeks in first position will still difficult to surpass other players maybe even this will last a long time.
When calculating ATP ratings you need to know how much points player received in that tournament last year.For instance if Djoko won next ATP 1000 last year and Medvedev did not play, that means that Djoko is defending that 1000 points.
If this year Djoko does not play and Medvedev wins it that is 2000 points swing in single event. Djoko looses 1000 points and Medvedev gets 1000 points.
Have no idea how many points each of them got last year so that is why I gave general example.
There are still 2 ATP masters 1000 tournaments that give quite a lot of points if Medvedev wins it, actually his win at the US Open will not necessarily make him able to win the remaining ATP 1000, only if that happens the point difference with Djokovic will be smaller and his chances of replacing Djokovic are very likely, however Djokovic's record as the most weeks in first position will still difficult to surpass other players maybe even this will last a long time.
So let's look at the current rankings,
https://ph.yahoo.com/news/nadal-drops-top-five-spanish-103031170.html
Djokovic still remains the number 1, Nadal drops to 6th spot, Federer to 9th.
Alcaraz - the young phenom move to 37th.
So it's going to be interesting battle now for the top spot next year, Medvedev could possibly overtake Djokovic. So there's a lot of pressure now on Djokovic to maintain his position and win tournament next year, but a lot of them are capable of beating him.
Quote
1. Novak Djokovic (SRB) 12133 pts
2. Daniil Medvedev (RUS) 10780
3. Stefanos Tsitsipas (GRE) 8350
4. Alexander Zverev (GER) 7760
5. Andrey Rublev (RUS) 6130 (+2)
6. Rafael Nadal (ESP) 5815 (-1)
7. Matteo Berrettini (ITA) 5173 (+1)
8. Dominic Thiem (AUT) 4995 (-2)
9. Roger Federer (SUI) 3765
10. Casper Ruud (NOR) 3440 (+1)
11. Felix Auger-Aliassime (CAN) 3368 (+4)
12. Denis Shapovalov (CAN) 3310 (-2)
13. Hubert Hurkacz (POL) 3128
14. Jannik Sinner (ITA) 2895 (+2)
15. Diego Schwartzman (ARG) 2800 (-1)
16. Pablo Carreño (ESP) 2650 (-4)
17. Christian Garin (CHI) 2510 (+2)
18. Roberto Bautista (ESP) 2405 (+3)
19. Reilly Opelka (USA) 2341 (+5)
20. Gael Monfils (FRA) 2233
2. Daniil Medvedev (RUS) 10780
3. Stefanos Tsitsipas (GRE) 8350
4. Alexander Zverev (GER) 7760
5. Andrey Rublev (RUS) 6130 (+2)
6. Rafael Nadal (ESP) 5815 (-1)
7. Matteo Berrettini (ITA) 5173 (+1)
8. Dominic Thiem (AUT) 4995 (-2)
9. Roger Federer (SUI) 3765
10. Casper Ruud (NOR) 3440 (+1)
11. Felix Auger-Aliassime (CAN) 3368 (+4)
12. Denis Shapovalov (CAN) 3310 (-2)
13. Hubert Hurkacz (POL) 3128
14. Jannik Sinner (ITA) 2895 (+2)
15. Diego Schwartzman (ARG) 2800 (-1)
16. Pablo Carreño (ESP) 2650 (-4)
17. Christian Garin (CHI) 2510 (+2)
18. Roberto Bautista (ESP) 2405 (+3)
19. Reilly Opelka (USA) 2341 (+5)
20. Gael Monfils (FRA) 2233
https://ph.yahoo.com/news/nadal-drops-top-five-spanish-103031170.html
Djokovic still remains the number 1, Nadal drops to 6th spot, Federer to 9th.
Alcaraz - the young phenom move to 37th.
So it's going to be interesting battle now for the top spot next year, Medvedev could possibly overtake Djokovic. So there's a lot of pressure now on Djokovic to maintain his position and win tournament next year, but a lot of them are capable of beating him.
Where have you seen that Djokovic was not playing at 100%? What are your proofs about that? AFAIK Djokovic was not injured, he didn't give up and he has been able to win 4 games in each set, then it shows he has lost because Daniil Medvedev was just better than him and you have to respect that. If Djokovic had won the match, I'm not sure you would say he was not playing at 100%.
That 100% reference isn't related to any injury. He just wasn't playing his best tennis in US Open. He was playing in 3rd gear and still winning which just says how good he is. It is impossible to keep top form during whole year and every player will have ups and downs. Top players are top because of the consistency and Djokovic is the best example of that. He wins matches even when not playing good by his standards.Not taking anything away from Medvedev, he played superb tournament and he would possibly even probably win even against Djokovic at his best. But whoever watched this match will tell you that Djokovic was far away from his best, just as he was during whole tournament.
I do think that Djokovic has beaten himself with all the pressure he mounted on himself
Yes, I think that. I said a few pages back that the one person in the tournament who can beat Djokovic is Djokovic himself, and that is what happened. A great performance from Medvedev certainly, but Djokovic was well below his usual standard. If Medvedev had faced a Djokovic who was playing at 100% or even maybe 85% of his ability, then the outcome would have been different.
I'm sure he beat himself, and there are quite striking parallels here with Serena Williams' ongoing failure to win that elusive final grand slam. Her task is perhaps somewhat easier because a) it's a single slam, she doesn't have to win all 4 in the same year, and b) she doesn't have to beat Nadal on clay to do it!
I do think that Djokovic has beaten himself with all the pressure he mounted on himself
Yes, I think that. I said a few pages back that the one person in the tournament who can beat Djokovic is Djokovic himself, and that is what happened. A great performance from Medvedev certainly, but Djokovic was well below his usual standard. If Medvedev had faced a Djokovic who was playing at 100% or even maybe 85% of his ability, then the outcome would have been different.
I watched the match on Amazon Prime, the two commentators Tim Hrnman and
Jim Courier both had Medvedev to win. They also stated that Djokovic had 5.5 hours extra
played in the tournament over Medvedev.
Djokovic had 4 x 4 set matches and 1 5 set match against Zverev while Medvedev
won all bar 1 of his matches in 3 sets. That has to have an effect on performance also.
I had already mentioned that Djokovic is definitely at a disadvantage in terms of fitness, especially with the strenuous match against Zverev.
But over the whole tournament Medvedev was simply the better and stronger player, he didn't drop a single set in the tournament and that is a remarkable achievement. Even if Medvedev felt he had the easier opponents than Djokovic.
It seems to me that we are just witnessing the end of the long dominance of the Big Three in world tennis.
All three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are getting older, they have more and more injuries and defeats in big matches, like Djokovic in the Olympics and in this last GS.
Federer has not played for a long time due to injury, Nadal too, and it turns out that young players like Zverev and Medvedev are starting to win more often at major tennis tournaments such as the GS and the Olympics.
It seems to me that maybe next year, 2022 or 2023, we will have a big turning point in world tennis, and the final departure of the big three.
Nadal and Djokovic can probably still win some GS, but they will no longer be absolute favorites in big tennis tournaments.
The time of these big three champions has come to an end.
It could really be the end of the dominance of the big 3. Federer and Nadal are out because of injuries and only Djokovic is trying to withstand the upcoming and next generations of players. And Medvedev by far has the best chance, just like what we've seen in this match. Not sure if Nadal can still win even in clay, maybe Djokovic can get one before he no longer in his prime. And then Medvedev, Zverev or Tsitsipas will take over then in the next 2 years.All three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are getting older, they have more and more injuries and defeats in big matches, like Djokovic in the Olympics and in this last GS.
Federer has not played for a long time due to injury, Nadal too, and it turns out that young players like Zverev and Medvedev are starting to win more often at major tennis tournaments such as the GS and the Olympics.
It seems to me that maybe next year, 2022 or 2023, we will have a big turning point in world tennis, and the final departure of the big three.
Nadal and Djokovic can probably still win some GS, but they will no longer be absolute favorites in big tennis tournaments.
The time of these big three champions has come to an end.
Yeah, it could be in the case of Nadal, but he is not also getting any younger, that's why he is prone to injury same as Federer when he is that age. Federer though took some sabbatical, carefully choosing tournaments. And it's effective, but then again it comes to father time. We all know that no one can defeat father time and Nadal is about to enter that stage of his career.
I think everyone agrees that if Nadal gets back to fitness and form he could win
Roland Garros but the fitness and form is not a given. When he comes back
from this injury he needs to not get injured again otherwise he will be finished.
Roland Garros but the fitness and form is not a given. When he comes back
from this injury he needs to not get injured again otherwise he will be finished.
Yes, if he can get back and recovered just like how Djokovic recovered in 2018, then he can still win another French Open.
Federer is not winning anymore. That leaves Djokovic who is only 1 year younger than
Nadal so time is ticking on his career but there should be a few more wins for him
Nadal so time is ticking on his career but there should be a few more wins for him
Sadly, yes, Federer being the older of the 3, has a lot of problems now, his body is telling him to really stop because it can't take any in this brutal sports of tennis.
I would love to see Medvedev build on his win in AO 2022 and then try and build his
performances on clay and grass.
Also would love to see Zverev and Tsitsipas progress further too.
performances on clay and grass.
Also would love to see Zverev and Tsitsipas progress further too.
Me too, he has gain so much confidence from winning the title from no less than the top seed. Surely, he can build a momentum and hopefully see him win more grand slams in the future.
I think everyone agrees that if Nadal gets back to fitness and form he could win
Roland Garros but the fitness and form is not a given. When he comes back
from this injury he needs to not get injured again otherwise he will be finished.
Federer is not winning anymore. That leaves Djokovic who is only 1 year younger than
Nadal so time is ticking on his career but there should be a few more wins for him
I would love to see Medvedev build on his win in AO 2022 and then try and build his
performances on clay and grass.
Also would love to see Zverev and Tsitsipas progress further too.
Roland Garros but the fitness and form is not a given. When he comes back
from this injury he needs to not get injured again otherwise he will be finished.
Federer is not winning anymore. That leaves Djokovic who is only 1 year younger than
Nadal so time is ticking on his career but there should be a few more wins for him
I would love to see Medvedev build on his win in AO 2022 and then try and build his
performances on clay and grass.
Also would love to see Zverev and Tsitsipas progress further too.
It seems to me that we are just witnessing the end of the long dominance of the Big Three in world tennis.
All three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are getting older, they have more and more injuries and defeats in big matches, like Djokovic in the Olympics and in this last GS.
Federer has not played for a long time due to injury, Nadal too, and it turns out that young players like Zverev and Medvedev are starting to win more often at major tennis tournaments such as the GS and the Olympics.
It seems to me that maybe next year, 2022 or 2023, we will have a big turning point in world tennis, and the final departure of the big three.
Nadal and Djokovic can probably still win some GS, but they will no longer be absolute favorites in big tennis tournaments.
The time of these big three champions has come to an end.
It could really be the end of the dominance of the big 3. Federer and Nadal are out because of injuries and only Djokovic is trying to withstand the upcoming and next generations of players. And Medvedev by far has the best chance, just like what we've seen in this match. Not sure if Nadal can still win even in clay, maybe Djokovic can get one before he no longer in his prime. And then Medvedev, Zverev or Tsitsipas will take over then in the next 2 years.All three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are getting older, they have more and more injuries and defeats in big matches, like Djokovic in the Olympics and in this last GS.
Federer has not played for a long time due to injury, Nadal too, and it turns out that young players like Zverev and Medvedev are starting to win more often at major tennis tournaments such as the GS and the Olympics.
It seems to me that maybe next year, 2022 or 2023, we will have a big turning point in world tennis, and the final departure of the big three.
Nadal and Djokovic can probably still win some GS, but they will no longer be absolute favorites in big tennis tournaments.
The time of these big three champions has come to an end.
It seems to me that we are just witnessing the end of the long dominance of the Big Three in world tennis.
All three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are getting older, they have more and more injuries and defeats in big matches, like Djokovic in the Olympics and in this last GS.
Federer has not played for a long time due to injury, Nadal too, and it turns out that young players like Zverev and Medvedev are starting to win more often at major tennis tournaments such as the GS and the Olympics.
It seems to me that maybe next year, 2022 or 2023, we will have a big turning point in world tennis, and the final departure of the big three.
Nadal and Djokovic can probably still win some GS, but they will no longer be absolute favorites in big tennis tournaments.
The time of these big three champions has come to an end.
All three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are getting older, they have more and more injuries and defeats in big matches, like Djokovic in the Olympics and in this last GS.
Federer has not played for a long time due to injury, Nadal too, and it turns out that young players like Zverev and Medvedev are starting to win more often at major tennis tournaments such as the GS and the Olympics.
It seems to me that maybe next year, 2022 or 2023, we will have a big turning point in world tennis, and the final departure of the big three.
Nadal and Djokovic can probably still win some GS, but they will no longer be absolute favorites in big tennis tournaments.
The time of these big three champions has come to an end.
It could really be the end of the dominance of the big 3. Federer and Nadal are out because of injuries and only Djokovic is trying to withstand the upcoming and next generations of players. And Medvedev by far has the best chance, just like what we've seen in this match. Not sure if Nadal can still win even in clay, maybe Djokovic can get one before he no longer in his prime. And then Medvedev, Zverev or Tsitsipas will take over then in the next 2 years.
It was the best game I've seen in years. Medvedev played an amazing game and managed to become the winner. But what was more beautiful than the match was what Djokovic went through. The fact that he smashed his racket shows how ambitious he is. Despite being less loved than other tennis players, it was very emotional to receive such support and cry on the court 
I thought Djokovic would win too, the result was a bit of a surprise for me. We'll see what happens in the next championship
I thought Djokovic would win too, the result was a bit of a surprise for me. We'll see what happens in the next championship
It seems to me that we are just witnessing the end of the long dominance of the Big Three in world tennis.
All three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are getting older, they have more and more injuries and defeats in big matches, like Djokovic in the Olympics and in this last GS.
Federer has not played for a long time due to injury, Nadal too, and it turns out that young players like Zverev and Medvedev are starting to win more often at major tennis tournaments such as the GS and the Olympics.
It seems to me that maybe next year, 2022 or 2023, we will have a big turning point in world tennis, and the final departure of the big three.
Nadal and Djokovic can probably still win some GS, but they will no longer be absolute favorites in big tennis tournaments.
The time of these big three champions has come to an end.
All three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are getting older, they have more and more injuries and defeats in big matches, like Djokovic in the Olympics and in this last GS.
Federer has not played for a long time due to injury, Nadal too, and it turns out that young players like Zverev and Medvedev are starting to win more often at major tennis tournaments such as the GS and the Olympics.
It seems to me that maybe next year, 2022 or 2023, we will have a big turning point in world tennis, and the final departure of the big three.
Nadal and Djokovic can probably still win some GS, but they will no longer be absolute favorites in big tennis tournaments.
The time of these big three champions has come to an end.
To be fair I don't think I ever said Medvedev is winning in straight sets. I expected Djokovic to take at least one set but that was not important for my bets. I had Medvedev to take at least one set @1.45 as my high stake bet.
I had Medvedev ML just for low stake unfortunately, was expecting it but not really believing. I managed to get @3.65 with super boost applied.
Watched first set and a half. Medvedev was untouchable in first set but Djoko could have and should have gotten the break early in second. Had 0-40 and easy volley on first break ball. After he did not convert that one, Medvedev did not give another opportunity.
You still got some nice wins out of it! Lost my only bet as I expected it to last at least 4 sets.
Of course pressure was part of the reason Djokovic lost, but don't take anything away from Medvedev, he was the only one who managed to beat him in US Open and Djokovic played whole tournament well below his best and still came to the final. Historically, Djokovic is always great at AO, not so much at US Open, has to be something with the way he trains and prepares for the season.
Zverev also got close in the semi final and I think a couple of years ago, Djokovic would still have won the final even though he played below his best. This is, I think, now the first final that someone of the big three has lost against the young generation.
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