Topic: Thailand files complaint against Bitcoin Seasteader - page 4. (Read 1381 times)

It's not that nobody cares, it's the contrary. All countries support Thailand. All countries would have reacted exactly the same way, and Elwar was naive to think he was safe being just behind the 12 miles limit. Try to build a seastead 13 miles off the coast of Florida, you'll get Marines assaulting you within days.

How can you know? Reading and taking into account are not the same.
I actually did my best to prove my point and you're getting all personal with me, recommending me to try your favourite forms of entertainment. I'll pass.
You also went a long way as a marine specialist from claiming that power is hard to come buy at sea to claiming that seastead had AIS and was perfectly lit at night.
We won't resolve this if you say there's one ship per week passing there and I can't confirm nor deny. How do you know how many ships pass by the seastead?

As for whether it poses a threat or not you'd have to take it up with this guy:

Vice Governor Supoj Rotreuang Na Nongkhai urged sensitivity in following due process in the case.
“Wichit Police is investigating the case and reviewing the evidence carefully because the penalty foe the charge under the complaint filed is so serious.”
“The next move is to have the structure removed. We have drawn up a plan together with the Royal Thai Navy Third Area Command already. The seastead will be seized and removed from the water because the seastead it is in a location that is dangerous for itself and for boats passing through the area,” V/Gov Supoj said.
https://www.thephuketnews.com/police-open-door-to-no-death-penalty-charge-over-phuket-seastead-case-71151.php#F1Vo87QAQR44ATuR.99

Yes, they did, because I literally took 30 seconds to google the recent events of a boat being rammed by a cargo vessel to prove a point that although they can be visible on a radar accidents do happen.


Hard to say, I'm not an expert. All I know is that here in the EU every vessel that exceeds certain length has to be inspected after construction and it has to comply with safety regulations. So, you can't build a yacht in your own garage and go to open seas.
Don't get me wrong, I feel like the government overreacted, but there are probably no rules for permanent sea housing so they treated his seastead like a boat.

https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/thailand/lifestyle/sports-leisure/sailing


First and foremost, be there to talk. The authorities claim he did not fill any paperwork with port authorities. They tried to contact him via radio, but there was no response. They went to visit, but found nobody home, so they took it for an abandoned structure and towed it.


Thai authorities say that it's their economic zone where they are allowed to fish and such. It's strange that no country is against Thailand performing military operations in international waters. They sent a warship to dismantle the seastead and move it within its borders, so they stole a property that neighboring countries like Malaysia could have equal claims to, but obviously nobody cares.

 

@coolcoinz
Did not even bother to read response as errors a to numerous.

The seastead is not a permanent structure, it was moored before pirates captured it and took it. It was not a a shipping lane and the only cargo ship passing maybe once a week an old junk on its way to get scraped. The fault is with someone who runs into something stationary. You the kind of guy crashing into a ghost ship and blaming it for the accident because you sounded the horn 3 times and gone full speed it still did not go out of your way. https://sobify.com/ghost-ship-in-the-arctic-floats-unmanned-for-nearly-40-years/ The ocean is full with all sorts of stuff including thousand of shipping containers, some float for a very long time, years before sinking.
He had way more lighting than any old yacht would have.
The seastead did have an AIS bouy transmitting the location.

If someone wants to get into data from a tanker he better get some motoryacht and keep cruising alongside for some time. Sitting in the middle of the ocean and wait for someone to be in wifi range for a couple of minutes to hack into is so far detached form reality its beyond funny.
Stop eating toothpaste, sniff glue or smoke what ever it is because it starts to show.

Besides living in the middle of nowhere is to get away from it all and live with nature and peace. Escape form the derailed.

Edit:
Luckily he did not cross path with you. Radar is of no use for something that small and wooden that low on the surface.
https://www.voanews.com/a/frenchman-completes-trans-atlantic-journey-in-a-barrel/4894977.html

Who created these alleged rules? Under what authority?

All of the incidents you cited took place in different countries (assuming they occurred within their respective territorial waters.

What rules would Elwar need to follow to stay “compliant”?

I am not sure if you are aware, but Elwar was located in international waters that no country has claim to.   

In Elwar's case there were much bigger boats sailing in the vicinity (at least according to Thai officials). What if trawler run into it in foggy weather? Who would be responsible? Elwar or the authorities who did not act knowing his seasted is there without proper documents and safety equipment?


You're telling me that oil tankers have no data and no wifi, same as motor yachts and other cargo ships. They have gyms and cinemas onboard but no computers and no sensitive data. We are no longer in the 90s, you know.
As for power being hard to get... it doesn't stop millions of yachts and cargo ships from having advanced electronic equipment. Even sail boats have generators and/or solar panels these days.


2/24/2019
Local authorities declared that five people have been uncounted for as a fishing boat rammed into a cargo ship and capsized in the sea near east China's Zhejiang Province.
The incident took place at about 1:40 p.m. Saturday.
https://menafn.com/1098164099/China-5-missing-after-boat-cargo-ship-crash

The Rome prosecutor's office has opened an inquiry into the case of Aldo Revello and Antonio Voinea, two yachtsmen from La Spezia who disappeared on May 2 off Portugal.
The file was opened after an anonymous source sent a tip-off to Revello's wife, Rosa Cilano Revello, that the yacht had been rammed by a cargo ship.
http://www.ansa.it/english/news/2018/10/23/missing-yachtsmen-died-after-rammed-by-cargo-ship_8b9ea77e-bd68-412c-a015-6064c4126c43.html

I could keep posting but what's the point? It's not about how many accidents there are but about rules set to prevent such accidents.

What hack into the local fishermen in the wooden boats. If you want some data you have to go places where there is data, out in the ocean is none and power is also hard to get.
Lets just hope you never go to sea because you have no idea whatsoever. A massive steel seastead can be seen on radar for a very long way, pity the poor fisherman in his small wooden boat, you sure gonna ram him out of the way. People been crossing oceans for ages when traveling solo, sleeping at night, do they all get rammed. Do you regularly ram parked cars at night?

If you are on a ship it's not a problem. Thailand has attempted to contact Elwar's seastead to make them move. You simply cannot have a permanent building there, like an oil platform. I don't like what the government is doing to them, but think about it for a second. They don't know what he's doing there. What if he was a cyber terrorist trying to hack into the computers of passing ships through their wifi and steal private data? What if there was an accident because some passing ship didn't see his seastead at night and rammed it?
When you have a sea boat you also have a working radio, a radar, proper lights, and are able to move if needed. Nobody should have a problem with you living on a boat (at least not in a civilized country, which Thailand in light of the recent events might not be).

it's sad how people have taken control of different territorial and even water bodies. right now all I can remember is pirates who also used to live on water bodies with their floating ships. what if someone just takes their ships and stays in the middle of water bodies and builds a farm or something.

I hope they remain safe and healthy and Thailand might eventually drop the charge.

I guess we should not talk about their whereabouts and messages and any post regarding this should be deleted from this forum.

All the major news outlets have written about him. An American (potentially) facing the death penalty overseas is usually big news.
According to the article, no warrant has been issued yet:
He is still in hiding, I have no clue where, hopefully on his way out of Thailand, and surrounding countries if he isn't already out.

Well, Elwar's getting famous, the WSJ is writing about him! He can be proud of that. Actually, I believe he was lucky, and that Thailand has been nice. It would have been much worse if he had chosen to seastead near the US, Russia or China.

I wonder if Thailand has issued a search warrant against him (a local lawyer could check that). Then, he would be in real trouble.

Elwar isn't attempting to form any nation. He's just trying to live. Just as there are pirates in every form, pirate nations exist, as well. There are boat groups all over the world. Few are trying to start a nation. They are all just living.

The WSJ published an article today online.

According to the article, Elwar was *only* living in the seastead, did not own it, nor choose the location. He apparently was planning on investing in the company that sells them, but that never materialized. The Thai government also towed the seastead back to land early last week.

I searched for his facebook, and Elwar posted that he and his wife are safe, and is avoiding social media to avoid making a mistake that will reveal his location.

Thats one failed such place https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/republic-of-minerva
also
http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/eng/Republic_of_Rose_Island
how is this
http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/eng/Principality_of_Sealand






Seasteading or Liberland are not the only pushes for freedom.
The words situation now is similar to 1989 USSR to many pushing for freedom at to many places, only a matter of time before the first really succeed for the long term.

To my knowledge they attempt to buy Gibraltar.
https://www.freesociety.com/

There are lots of places which could be bought cheaply, but most are to far away. For years UK has been looking for people moving to Pitcairn Islands, no-one is interested to move there.

The way forward, A society based on voluntary interactions instead of government force.

No, story is form last year.


No, they where in international waters. 200 miles it total garbage. Three quarters of countries with a coastline claim 12 Nautical Miles as Territorial sea, including Thailand. The further out the higher the cost and difficult to patrol/enforce/defend. A small wooden boat with limited power can not establish communication to shore if to far out to sea. Without communication Thai or other coast guard wont know what a vessel intentions are, chasing ever single one of them 24/7 hundreds of miles offshore is crazy expensive.

Elwars and his girlfriend issue at hand is that going to and from the seastead would require getting in contact with immigration.
Going to the seastead leaving Thailand must get visa stamp. Going from the seastead to Thailand, informing the Thai authorities that you indent to enter the county. Failing to do so is illegal country enter/exiting.
Thai Navy has no right to enter the seastead is it is outside there jurisdiction. Taking it over is a "invasion" of the micro-nation or piracy.

Hmmm... Do you think the Thai authorities simply wanted to steal his bitcoins? If they managed to arrest him do you think they would have been able to take it? Like, maybe they'd force him to give it up in exchange for retracting charges? I mean, the crime they accuse him of is punishable by death.

Do you think this - https://www.trackcoinmarket.com/en/crypto-news/33524/prime-suspect-bitcoin-scam-arrested-thailand - has anything to do with Elwar?

However, there are many near-surface, ocean plateaus where nobody would care. Some of them are within the 200 miles. Yet, nobody would care.

The Caribbean to the edge of the Atlantic is full of such places. Elwar would have to start over, and rebuild his seastead. And he would have to haul it by boat, or at least install a motor on it. If he gets safely away from Thai authorities 100%, he can start over.

Personally, I would like to see him succeed. I think that he isn't doing anyone wrong, or harm, or damage, in any way. Let him get advice on this, and start over. After all, the first settlers in the Americas had their share of trouble. We have many more options than they did.

Unfortunately, this was expected. There were just too close to the coast. Seasteading can only be considered safe if you're more than 200 miles from any country. I guess Elwar must relocate to the middle of the Pacific...

Well it looks like that was posted before he talked to Tecshare so hopefully he got it figured out..