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Topic: The Ethereum Paradox - page 13. (Read 99876 times)

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
May 13, 2016, 01:58:43 AM
You can nitpick about random metrics of Bitcoin if you manage to survive past that date.  Bitcoin will either be very valuable when the day comes, or people will all be killing each other in the street over slim jims and no currency will have value.  I do not care about anything beyond that at this point, and likely neither does anyone else.  There is nothing else to discuss.  Doing nothing is not a solution.  Ethereum is a scam, so to war with Bitcoin we go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvxpv_fycl8



Like clockwork, the truth is normally found at neither extreme but somewhere in the middle. I agree about doing nothing is not a solution.


Bitcoin isn't even a good weapon in that war--there's a reason it's being embraced by TPTB: it isn't private and it is getting more centralized by the day. If Ethereum and Bitcoin both trend towards centralization to achieve their stated goals, how is anyone criticizing one while holding up the other as mankind's salvation?

Maybe instead of looking at the first iteration of weaponry to fight centralized trust systems, we should be looking at the best weaponry currently available. Just a thought.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
May 13, 2016, 01:48:04 AM
You can nitpick about random metrics of Bitcoin if you manage to survive past that date.  Bitcoin will either be very valuable when the day comes, or people will all be killing each other in the street over slim jims and no currency will have value.  I do not care about anything beyond that at this point, and likely neither does anyone else.  There is nothing else to discuss.  Doing nothing is not a solution.  Ethereum is a scam, so to war with Bitcoin we go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvxpv_fycl8



Like clockwork, the truth is normally found at neither extreme but somewhere in the middle. I agree about doing nothing is not a solution.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 13, 2016, 01:17:21 AM

When the great reset happens, we're all going to watch TV?

I have no opinion on unprofitable PoW. IOTA will very likely never turn off the checkpoints (but will continue to promise to do so "in the future" as Peercoin has for years) and will work well enough for what it is, which is a type-ICO altcoin-MMO gambling token, and TPTB's thing is nebulous vaporware that can't be evaluated.

Ethereum sort of functions. It doesn't do anything at all useful as far as I can tell, beyond being another altcoin-MMO gambling token, granted one that reaches a somewhat wider and likely richer set of gamblers.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
May 13, 2016, 01:01:36 AM
Anonymint, you don't seem to understand this is a war, and like Smooth said, pulling up the age old saying - you go to war with the army you have, not the one you want.  Your stance on everything is:  oh, of course fiat is a scam, don't buy fiat notes.  Gold?  Yea, don't buy gold either because some random Jew on the internet with his magical computer named Armstrong that looks like Jim Cramer's cousin said it's going to go down (while the most profitable hedge fund on earth, Horseman Global, simultaneously buys it).  Bitcoin?  Yea, don't buy that either because even though it actually functions, unlike Ethereum, it doesn't fulfill all of my metrics for perfection.

None of that is a solution for anything.  In a war you either lead, follow, or get out of the way.  Anonymintcoin doesn't exist, and even if it did, I do not believe unprofitable PoW is a valid answer to the problem.  I know you think Monsterer is stupid, but he's smart enough to get the jist of the situation and he doesn't think it's viable either.  Fluffypony and Smooth haven't said anything about it, but I'd guess they probably agree.

Having said that, that the war is already started, doing nothing is not a solution.  Even if you actually believe this Armstrong guy is right, not everyone is a day trader.  It doesn't matter about chasing money left on the table.  All that matters is making sure you have something that has some type of fundamentals which isn't going to zero the day the great reset happens.  You know that day is coming soon.  You also know that Bitcoin will likely function perfectly fine when the day comes.  

You can nitpick about random metrics of Bitcoin if you manage to survive past that date.  Bitcoin will either be very valuable when the day comes, or people will all be killing each other in the street over slim jims and no currency will have value.  I do not care about anything beyond that at this point, and likely neither does anyone else.  There is nothing else to discuss.  Doing nothing is not a solution.  Ethereum is a scam, so to war with Bitcoin we go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvxpv_fycl8

newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
May 12, 2016, 04:58:44 PM
Re: The perfect coin waiting to come around? (mix of ether, lisk and bitcoin?)

How is it possible to create a perfect coin out of nonsense coins that have no use case and have fundamentally flawed Nash Equilibrium.

Stop with the smart contracts already. They are nonsense.

Or much better just ignore me, and I'll return the favor.




China's economy will have a reset in 2020

How'd you come up with that year?

EDIT
oops, of course, never mind!  Tongue
I can't keep up with all your nicknames!

I have a triangulation of three sources:

1. Martin Armstrong's computer and database.
2. Michael Pettis's (China expert, widely respected) calculations (and he has been correct several times already).
3. The charts showing China is nearing the Minsky Moment:


The new username is temporarily forced by a 10 day ban.
legendary
Activity: 996
Merit: 1013
May 12, 2016, 11:04:30 AM

China's economy will have a reset in 2020

How'd you come up with that year?

EDIT
oops, of course, never mind!  Tongue
I can't keep up with all your nicknames!
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
May 12, 2016, 10:46:51 AM
There is no way to prevent centralization of any block chain design based on profitable proof-of-work as it scales up significantly. Period. It will always centralize to economies-of-scale. Period. Full stop.

The only possible way I can envision overcoming this is to make mining unprofitable but mandatory for signers of transactions. Even I am not sure this won't also become centralized. I'll explain this in great detail if I ever get around to writing a white paper (I wrote some of it).

As of the moment, I am trying to diversify my options, because I am losing hope for crypto-currency. I'd prefer to work on something that is more sane. If I can justify working on a CC as part of a diversified project that can make profit even if the CC fails, then I'll probably take a stab at it, if my resources allow me to.

Monero is decentralized for the time being because it is small and its proof-of-work hash is moderately ASIC resistant. I have a design for increasing the ASIC resistance. That is another aspect I might actually develop and not just talk about it.

I am tired of talking and trying to do more programming work. As of the moment I am bogged down in programming language design research. I am not in CC design at the moment, which all has been set aside for the moment for me.

Bitcoin might be a good investment. I have no opinion on that really. I have no idea to what degree confiscation will occur in the coming down years after 2017. We are headed into a turbulent time and we will just have to wait to see how it turns out.

Bitcoin will be increasingly centralized. I have no doubt about that. The impacts and timing of impacts of being centralized is something I can't know.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
May 12, 2016, 10:33:56 AM
Global politics aside, there doesn't seem any demonstrable reason that Bitcoin won't continue down the centralism road. There needs to be some change in the way Bitcoin works, and as of yet, I haven't read anything that sounds like in a change in Bitcoin, but rather periphery effects that may or may not lead to decentralization.

Other than the proposal YarkoL mentioned, are there any other changes that have been proposed? Is that a serious consideration?

Counting on other technologies or global politics to work out a problem inherent in Bitcoin seems chimerical.

 
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
May 12, 2016, 10:17:53 AM
I destroyed this logic fail from smooth in the past. Did you miss it?

You did not because you insist China will always have some type of competitive edge over the "inferior" west due to ingenuity or corruption.

The centralization is due to economies-of-scale of mining farms. It doesn't matter where it happens. It just happens to be that China is very conducive thus it is happening there. But if China wasn't the low-cost leader on corrupt free electricity or cheap hydropower, then it would still be happening where ever it is. Because this is a fact of the INSOLUBLE economics of Satoshi's design.

Come on r0ach, you are smarter than this.

China is a logistics nightmare and maybe they have a hard landing never to be heard from again once the shit hits the fan.

Even if that were a possibility (and it is not), it still would be irrelevant.

China's main fear is domestic political dissent for a reason.  The top is all crooked and the bottom is eventually going to riot and send the country into chaos while all the leaders flee to Vancouver.

In your dreams. Even if that were plausible (and it is not), then still would be irrelevant.

The reason it is implausible is because China is an economic powerhouse that will reap huge economic growth as it allows its economy to diversify. They don't have the problems with huge number of retirees and people on social welfare and unemployment insurance. The West can't compete because of the burden of the cost of socialism.

China's economy will have a reset in 2020, but the Chinese are not going to abandon their culture. They will continue with the model of top-down organization. That is just the way Chinese people think. Do a little research on how their thinking about organization of society and capital differs from ours in the West.

Have you ever seen charts that show the wealth of a nation as a function of IQ?  It always shows higher IQ countries having more wealth, except in the case of authoritarian socialist regimes, then the IQ makes no difference and wealth of the nation plummets.  Due to China being a logistics nightmare, they will have to go more hardcore authoritarian than any other country on earth, and it will implode any type of ingenuity and it's impossible for them to keep up with other countries.  The second we put up tariffs it's over.

The sad reality is we are entering a new world order where even very great totalitarianism of China will be much more profitable than the abject failure of socialism in the West.

Get used to it. The ideals of our founding fathers are dead. They won't be coming back to the world for many decades from now. You and I will be dead by then.

Sorry to give you the bad news.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
May 12, 2016, 09:56:59 AM
I destroyed this logic fail from smooth in the past. Did you miss it?

You did not because you insist China will always have some type of competitive edge over the "inferior" west due to ingenuity or corruption.  China is a logistics nightmare and maybe they have a hard landing never to be heard from again once the shit hits the fan.  China's main fear is domestic political dissent for a reason.  The top is all crooked and the bottom is eventually going to riot and send the country into chaos while all the leaders flee to Vancouver.  

Have you ever seen charts that show the wealth of a nation as a function of IQ?  It always shows higher IQ countries having more wealth, except in the case of authoritarian socialist regimes, then the IQ makes no difference and wealth of the nation plummets.  Due to China being a logistics nightmare, they will have to go more hardcore authoritarian than any other country on earth, and it will implode any type of ingenuity making it impossible for them to keep up.  The second we put up tariffs it's also game over for them.

If you're a Chinaman reading this, contrary to what Anonymint says, I promise you, your country is not going to be the new paradise golf course resort in the sky.  I'd probably flee to Vancouver like all the other Chinamen.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
May 12, 2016, 09:53:28 AM
Its so obvious that the halving is already priced in.

I am not sure of that. I put it out there as a strong possibility. But we also have to factor in that the Euro is making a rally against the dollar, gold has been rallying also. We have a countertrend bounce right now. The wheels haven't fallen off the global economy yet.

Anyway, I agree with TPTB, long term both are SHIT as ETH is basically a scam and BTC is just digital fiat with potential worse controling outcomes that today fiat system

At least with monero we have a bit of financial privacy

But that doesn't mean BTC won't be pumped again to pull more money into that trap. Fundamentals of it as true hedge against fiat/governmment isn't necessarily correlated to its price performance.

I'm not playing your "move from one pump and dump to next pump and dump" scam game.  Better to just hold what actually has fundamentals.  I'm not buying garbage IPO scams issued by Eastern Europeans, issued for profit with no technical viability, whose entire purpose is to defraud people.  If I wanted to do that, I would just use fiat.

Bitcoin is largest of the scams. It is pulling $1 million a day out of pockets and handing it to some corruption in China.

And you should really put more attention to what TPTB is saying.

Neither Smooth or I agree with AnonymintTPTB_need_war (aka sockpuppet1) about BTC mining having a predictable endgame.  It's entirely plausible that commoditization of sha256d could make most big mining farms extinct, with the only miners remaining being people that use the waste heat to power some other type of utility:  water heaters, central heating, industrial use, etc.

I destroyed this logic fail from smooth in the past. Did you miss it?

Electricity is nearly an order-of-magnitude less efficient way to create heat. No one is going to compete with nearly free electricity in China (due to corruption) by paying more to heat their homes.

Even if Chinese mining farms were not getting political favors in exchange for promising to follow the government's edicts on regulation of mining (which of course they will do as any rational person will do because if they don't someone else will avail of the offer from the government and of course the government of China wants to control Bitcoin, duh!), it would still be the case that Chinese mining farms will always have greater economies-of-scale which will make it impossible to compete with them by getting part of the electricity for heating your home for free, because again you could heat your home in much more efficient ways especially factoring in the capital cost of the latest generation competitive ASIC mining equipment, as compared to for example adding better insulation to your walls or double paned windows, etc..

You might risk the utility company diverting hash voting power for nefarious means in such a scenario, but what are the odds the utility companies of the US, North Korea, Iraq, Iceland, and whoever else all collude?

100%. We are headed into a top-down managed world. Take off your rosy spectacles and study the history of mankind and what happens at junctures like the one we are in now.

You're the only one I've read use the term commoditization for Bitcoin mining's future--what do you mean? And can you clarify how it fixes the centralization problem?

The usual term is commodification, meaning affordable and
efficient consumer-level ASICs

14nm fabs are only owned by Intel, Samsung, and TMSC. Intel will probably be the first to 10nm, perhaps up to a year ahead of the others. It takes years to ramp up production to meaningful volumes. Commodization doesn't mean that consumers can get the most efficient hardware at reasonable prices. The cutting edge will always belong to the mining farm which places large guaranteed orders years in advance.
legendary
Activity: 996
Merit: 1013
May 12, 2016, 09:51:01 AM
You're the only one I've read use the term commoditization for Bitcoin mining's future--what do you mean? And can you clarify how it fixes the centralization problem?

The usual term is commodification, meaning affordable and
efficient consumer-level ASICs

Interestingly just now Core devs have tossed up an idea
of changing the PoW algo to prevent a patented mining optimization.
So it is not totally clear if Bitcoin Core is a permissioned
ledger.
legendary
Activity: 2184
Merit: 1024
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
May 12, 2016, 08:54:47 AM
Ethereum is hard to use for the average user. It will not go very far keep that in mind.
Posted in 2010:
Bitcoin is hard to use for the average user. It will not go very far keep that in mind
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
May 12, 2016, 08:00:06 AM
And you should really put more attention to what TPTB is saying.

Neither Smooth or I agree with Anonymint about BTC mining having a predictable endgame.  It's entirely plausible that commoditization of sha256d could make most big mining farms extinct, with the only miners remaining being people that use the waste heat to power some other type of utility:  water heaters, central heating, industrial use, etc.  You might risk the utility company diverting hash voting power for nefarious means in such a scenario, but what are the odds the utility companies of the US, North Korea, Iraq, Iceland, and whoever else all collude?  It's impossible for Anonymint to know what shape mining will take in the future.


You're the only one I've read use the term commoditization for Bitcoin mining's future--what do you mean? And can you clarify how it fixes the centralization problem?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
May 12, 2016, 07:18:23 AM
And you should really put more attention to what TPTB is saying.

Neither Smooth or I agree with Anonymint about BTC mining having a predictable endgame.  It's entirely plausible that commoditization of sha256d could make most big mining farms extinct, with the only miners remaining being people that use the waste heat to power some other type of utility:  water heaters, central heating, industrial use, etc.  You might risk the utility company diverting hash voting power for nefarious means in such a scenario, but what are the odds the utility companies of the US, North Korea, Iraq, Iceland, and whoever else all collude?  It's impossible for Anonymint to know what shape mining will take in the future.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1010
Professional Native Greek Translator (2000+ done)
May 12, 2016, 07:17:20 AM
Ethereum is hard to use for the average user. It will not go very far keep that in mind.
legendary
Activity: 2184
Merit: 1024
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
May 12, 2016, 07:14:13 AM
^Prime example of Eth scammers spamming the speculation forum.  When Bitcoin goes up 5%, alts go down like 10% or more.  I'm sure you're praying Bitcoin doesn't go up to completely implode your Eth scam, but that's what's going to happen.

The last time Bitcoin went up 4%, all alts slaughtered.  Read it and weep scammers:



who the fuck cares, we are all just moving from coins to coins; they are all shit; even bitcoin is shit considering it cant achieve the purpose it was aiming for; you are the only one here promoting tying yourself to the death to a shitcoin when there is no guarantee that the civil war that has been going one for more than a year is going to be resolved anytime soon

so here's the advice that roach should tell everyone: under 2850, you get the fuck out of bitcoin and you short it like crazy; above 3030 you do the opposite; rigth now, just get in ETH to enjoy the DAO ride
Bitcoin is rkt. Roach knows it, everybody knows it. Roach is just bitter he missed the chance to buy cheap ETH and is now desperately and pathetically trying to talk down its price so he can jump on the ETH train. There is no other reason for his bitter fudding. Best ignored.
hero member
Activity: 723
Merit: 503
May 12, 2016, 07:09:00 AM
who the fuck cares, we are all just moving from coins to coins; they are all shit; even bitcoin is shit considering it cant achieve the purpose it was aiming for; you are the only one here promoting tying yourself to the death to a shitcoin when there is no guarantee that the civil war that has been going one for more than a year is going to be resolved anytime soon

so here's the advice that roach should tell everyone: under 2850, you get the fuck out of bitcoin and you short it like crazy; above 3030 you do the opposite; rigth now, just get in ETH to enjoy the DAO ride

^A true scammer mentality on display.  I'm not playing your "move from one pump and dump to next pump and dump" scam game.  Better to just hold what actually has fundamentals.  I'm not buying garbage IPO scams issued by Eastern Europeans, issued for profit with no technical viability, whose entire purpose is to defraud people.  If I wanted to do that, I would just use fiat.

thats called trading... and there is no point in holding BTC right now when you can just buy it if it goes above 3030.  And you should really put more attention to what TPTB is saying. BTC is becoming more and more like fiat every day and it has the potential to be even worse than today's fiat system
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
May 12, 2016, 06:56:19 AM
who the fuck cares, we are all just moving from coins to coins; they are all shit; even bitcoin is shit considering it cant achieve the purpose it was aiming for; you are the only one here promoting tying yourself to the death to a shitcoin when there is no guarantee that the civil war that has been going one for more than a year is going to be resolved anytime soon

so here's the advice that roach should tell everyone: under 2850, you get the fuck out of bitcoin and you short it like crazy; above 3030 you do the opposite; rigth now, just get in ETH to enjoy the DAO ride

^A true scammer mentality on display.  I'm not playing your "move from one pump and dump to next pump and dump" scam game.  Better to just hold what actually has fundamentals.  I'm not buying garbage IPO scams issued by Eastern Europeans, issued for profit with no technical viability, whose entire purpose is to defraud people.  If I wanted to do that, I would just use fiat.
hero member
Activity: 723
Merit: 503
May 12, 2016, 06:41:35 AM
^Prime example of Eth scammers spamming the speculation forum.  When Bitcoin goes up 5%, alts go down like 10% or more.  I'm sure you're praying Bitcoin doesn't go up to completely implode your Eth scam, but that's what's going to happen.

The last time Bitcoin went up 4%, all alts slaughtered.  Read it and weep scammers:



who the fuck cares, we are all just moving from coins to coins; they are all shit; even bitcoin is shit considering it cant achieve the purpose it was aiming for; you are the only one here promoting tying yourself to the death to a shitcoin when there is no guarantee that the civil war that has been going one for more than a year is going to be resolved anytime soon

so here's the advice that roach should tell everyone: under 2850, you get the fuck out of bitcoin and you short it like crazy; above 3030 you do the opposite; rigth now, just get in ETH to enjoy the DAO ride
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