The Ethereum Paradox - page 19. | Bitcointalksearch.org

stoat

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FREEDOM RESERVE

Quote from: Days on April 01, 2016, 05:52:39 PM

Still that ETH teenage developer just schooled the entire Monero developing team "website designers/gambling sites/#waiting for my GUI". While you guys including TPTB_need_war who is also dreaming about creating he's coin that should as he indicates for like two years now that will solve every other coins problem yea big "LOL" crying so much in a bitcoin forum that filled with shills like you/ haters like you/ & just pure jealousy of people success. It is as if you wish that everyone who invested in any coin that you don't support is to just lose it ALL so your dirty souls can smile once in their life for once.

No wonder you guys are barely mentioned in a crytpo dedicated website because you are full of hot air.

Well said 👍

finitemaz

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Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 05, 2016, 10:46:51 AM

Quote from: finitemaz on April 05, 2016, 10:31:06 AM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 05, 2016, 10:23:51 AM

Please don't stand in the way of Blockstream clusterfucking Bitcoin. It is a necessary stage of the evolution of crypto currency.

Is the LN proposal that outlandish? Forgive me, I am far from an expert on this.

Professor Jorge Stolfi:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49a14r/how_the_heck_are_actual_bitcoin_users_who_want_a/d0qfeui

Start reading from about this post on down that Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3tucne/eli19_what_are_the_issues_with_the_lightning/cx9ca49

LN is a clusterfuck of never ending corner cases of complexity.

Well why the hell are they even bothering with it then? Clueless?

jrpatking

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Crypto currency innovations can't be stopped at any time by any means. If LN is the hot task for this year, something new will be there in the next year. LIkewise, ETH may be overrided by something better than that of eth's innovations and promises.

TPTB_need_war

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Quote from: finitemaz on April 05, 2016, 10:31:06 AM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 05, 2016, 10:23:51 AM

Please don't stand in the way of Blockstream clusterfucking Bitcoin. It is a necessary stage of the evolution of crypto currency.

Is the LN proposal that outlandish? Forgive me, I am far from an expert on this.

Professor Jorge Stolfi:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49a14r/how_the_heck_are_actual_bitcoin_users_who_want_a/d0qfeui

Start reading from about this post on down that Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3tucne/eli19_what_are_the_issues_with_the_lightning/cx9ca49

LN is a clusterfuck of never ending corner cases of complexity.

finitemaz

member

Activity: 88

Merit: 10

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 05, 2016, 10:23:51 AM

Please don't stand in the way of Blockstream clusterfucking Bitcoin. It is a necessary stage of the evolution of crypto currency.

Is the LN proposal that outlandish? Forgive me, I am far from an expert on this.

TPTB_need_war

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 262

Please don't stand in the way of Blockstream clusterfucking Bitcoin. It is a necessary stage of the evolution of crypto currency.

finitemaz

member

Activity: 88

Merit: 10

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 01, 2016, 05:14:54 PM

Quote from: r0ach on April 01, 2016, 11:29:13 AM

Strange that partitioning is listed as scaling option #2 now and scaling option #1 is the exact same thing as Bitcoin ....

Quote from: butalik

Solution path 1: lightning networks /
state channels
(eg. Raiden)
●
Solution path 2:
sharding
(Ethereum 2.0)

And LN won't work without scaling because it has a huge periodic garbage collection spikes in block size headroom. So it is back to an insoluble problem for both Satoshi's design and Ethereum,

Isn't LN what they're currently proposing for bitcoin?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4dg9rz/bitcoin_lightning_network_should_be_ready_this/

tromp

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Quote from: AlexGR on April 05, 2016, 05:12:44 AM

I found it extremely hard to believe that floating point can't be supported. Floating point is required in a lot of financial transactions.

Fixed (decimal) point suffices in most cases, which is easily represented with integers.

Bitcoin fractions have 8 decimal places and thus we can represent arbitrary BTC amounts as integer
multiples of 10^-8 BTC (satoshis).

AlexGR

legendary

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I found it extremely hard to believe that floating point can't be supported. Floating point is required in a lot of financial transactions.

Anyway this should be very interesting in terms of cpu microcode updates and related errata (which is a blackbox situation), plus possible government involvement to orchestrate possible trigger scenarios / kill-switches as an attack vector...

The only way to mitigate this would probably be to conduct software emulated math functions, at a much slower pace. But it would need a run option like -softmath or something.

smooth

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tromp's reply didn't really answer the question. Basic floating point operations are supposed to be deterministic anyway. The question was whether a hardware bug causing incorrect/different results (in operations that are used in Ethereum) could fork the network and the answer is yes.

Of course this could happen in another coin too. A hardware bug, in theory, could cause a valid signature to appear invalid on some hardware and therefore cause the majority chain to appear invalid, which would then result in a persistent fork.

AlexGR

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lol?

tromp

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Quote from: AlexGR on April 04, 2016, 01:51:43 PM

Would a script like that, which executes a certain division that produces different outcomes in different machines, fork the network? Or are math functions software-emulated for safety and not speed?

Ethereum has no built-in support for floating point data types...

AlexGR

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Quote from: AlexGR on March 15, 2016, 05:14:51 AM

Quote from: smooth on March 15, 2016, 05:02:27 AM

@AlexGR, everything in Ethereum is deterministic. There are no operations that have different results on different nodes. At least if everything works properly. If not then it can fork the chain.

Aha, that's closer to the answer I was hoping for. Thanks.

Ok, so is it censoring code that it doesn't like or something?

Let's say randomizing numbers is out of the question.

Now let's do something else. I'm adding a constant number (not random), let's say the number 42, for 1 entire second. Everything is given / predetermined: a) The number to add (42) and b) how long I want it to perform what I want (1000 msecs). The result though is different because one pc will have made 500 million additions, another will have made 10 billion additions, depending their cpu power.

Can I fork the network now? Cheesy

On the same trail of thought, pursuing disagreements in the computations of the network to fork it:

What happens if, say, hardware behaves differently in certain computation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug#Example_symptoms

Would a script like that, which executes a certain division that produces different outcomes in different machines, fork the network? Or are math functions software-emulated for safety and not speed?

TPTB_need_war

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I posted a comment:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ethereum-bitcoin-competitors/#comment-2603410376

TPTB_need_war

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Quote from: Mastsetad on April 03, 2016, 02:25:56 AM

But the Ethereum users are also growing fast.

Where can I pay using ETH Huh

How can there be users if there are no merchants accepting ETH? We already explained upthread that the smart contract concept can't work technologically.

Mastsetad

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Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 03, 2016, 12:54:08 AM

Quote from: ProfessionalGoogler on April 02, 2016, 06:02:49 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 02, 2016, 08:04:47 AM

Quote from: McDonalds5 on April 02, 2016, 07:55:24 AM

ETH is dead forever permanently.

We wish. Sadly that is unlikely to be the case because the mentality amongst speculators is to follow the pump to try to earn some profit. Damn the technological and adoption fundamentals.

P&Ds are irresistible to the gambler "crack addicts".

On the positive side, Ethereum's ICO was publicized, its development is open source as it is happening. OTOH, the potential price manipulation by insiders and the distribution of the ICO is not open source.

People said/say the same things about Bitcoin.

Who says that Bitcoin has no network effects and no viable use case Huh

Bitcoin has the most user base. It has at least 500,000 active users. But the Ethereum users are also growing fast.

TPTB_need_war

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Quote from: ProfessionalGoogler on April 02, 2016, 06:02:49 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 02, 2016, 08:04:47 AM

Quote from: McDonalds5 on April 02, 2016, 07:55:24 AM

ETH is dead forever permanently.

We wish. Sadly that is unlikely to be the case because the mentality amongst speculators is to follow the pump to try to earn some profit. Damn the technological and adoption fundamentals.

P&Ds are irresistible to the gambler "crack addicts".

On the positive side, Ethereum's ICO was publicized, its development is open source as it is happening. OTOH, the potential price manipulation by insiders and the distribution of the ICO is not open source.

People said/say the same things about Bitcoin.

Who says that Bitcoin has no network effects and no viable use case Huh

yubsep

sr. member

Activity: 658

Merit: 251

Yes.. Down Trending soon...
Selling now if you bought +0.02 BTC and Buying on bottom again !!

Quote from: McDonalds5 on April 02, 2016, 07:55:24 AM

ETH is dead forever permanently. Don't buy now

ProfessionalGoogler

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 02, 2016, 08:04:47 AM

Quote from: McDonalds5 on April 02, 2016, 07:55:24 AM

ETH is dead forever permanently.

We wish. Sadly that is unlikely to be the case because the mentality amongst speculators is to follow the pump to try to earn some profit. Damn the technological and adoption fundamentals.

P&Ds are irresistible to the gambler "crack addicts".

On the positive side, Ethereum's ICO was publicized, its development is open source as it is happening. OTOH, the potential price manipulation by insiders and the distribution of the ICO is not open source.

People said/say the same things about Bitcoin.

Haters gonna hate. Skaters gonna skate.

TPTB_need_war

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 262

Quote from: McDonalds5 on April 02, 2016, 07:55:24 AM

ETH is dead forever permanently.

We wish. Sadly that is unlikely to be the case because the mentality amongst speculators is to follow the pump to try to earn some profit. Damn the technological and adoption fundamentals.

P&Ds are irresistible to the gambler "crack addicts".

On the positive side, Ethereum's ICO was publicized, its development is open source as it is happening. OTOH, the potential price manipulation by insiders and the distribution of the ICO is not open source.

Topic: The Ethereum Paradox - page 19. (Read 99889 times)