Topic: The function of religion ? - page 24. (Read 18693 times)
Well enough Chang. Something that takes hours posting on a forum, could be sorted over a beer in a minute.
Sorry im a bit slow 
And cranky 
And cranky
Chang without twisting your words: You say you don't question people who believe in a "god" like, present or past, existence. They might be wrong or they might be right, which I agree with as I Don't know for sure either.
You believe all religious society's are corrupt and either the government or a tool for a government. You are absolutely right, which I also stated. I can think of a few monasteries and small independent communities that for sure are very unlikely to be corrupt or a tool. The might get secret donations and have a fortune, but probably don't have any hidden sinister agenda.
In my case, Jesus was a real historical person. The descriptions of him are very real but likely edited or censored, also from other religion historical sources there are a lot of descriptions of quite commonplace things in his life. Jesus was a Jew and a lot of his ideology and ethics bear resemblance to that. He also had an attitude problem that got him into trouble. So the Christian bible is a story about how to perceive other people with respect and brotherly love (very Jewish). Further it talks about how to say no to oppression and corruption. Very much up my alley.
What the fusion of Roman state power did when acknowledging Christianity was to twist it to it's purpose of control. But the message still survives, That's why I claim that the corruption in a religion not per se makes it followers stupid, the clever ones adapt to the new masters also but remembers what it is all about.
I know very little of Islam but young Mohammed was a street kid, (lost, maybe criminal depending on interpretation). He sought membership in a Christian community but was turned down (uptight Christians, even then). Later on, while on the run from prosecution, he found refuge in a Christian church in north Africa. Muslims also acknowledge Jesus as a profet of Allah, though they disagree on the "son of God" part. (some capable Muslim please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this). My point being that the roots of the 3 major religions are intertwined and bear a kind of common wisdom, which in my view, adds to each others credibility historically and context vise, no need to judge any of them right or wrong. Further a lot of European culture and society is based on Christian ethics and values which is great common good that we should not forget.
So my take on religion is twofold. It's an important lesson to be told about humanity and it helps me on a personal level to be the person I want to be.
My personal concept of God is a personal one one I don't often share and don't need to share to get some kind of ratification from others.
That's why I say that we don't disagree that much, maybe only on the part about wiping any religion of the surface of the earth, but as you state yourself, doing so would make politics or other powers take it's place with it's own gods.
Cheres
You believe all religious society's are corrupt and either the government or a tool for a government. You are absolutely right, which I also stated. I can think of a few monasteries and small independent communities that for sure are very unlikely to be corrupt or a tool. The might get secret donations and have a fortune, but probably don't have any hidden sinister agenda.
In my case, Jesus was a real historical person. The descriptions of him are very real but likely edited or censored, also from other religion historical sources there are a lot of descriptions of quite commonplace things in his life. Jesus was a Jew and a lot of his ideology and ethics bear resemblance to that. He also had an attitude problem that got him into trouble. So the Christian bible is a story about how to perceive other people with respect and brotherly love (very Jewish). Further it talks about how to say no to oppression and corruption. Very much up my alley.
What the fusion of Roman state power did when acknowledging Christianity was to twist it to it's purpose of control. But the message still survives, That's why I claim that the corruption in a religion not per se makes it followers stupid, the clever ones adapt to the new masters also but remembers what it is all about.
I know very little of Islam but young Mohammed was a street kid, (lost, maybe criminal depending on interpretation). He sought membership in a Christian community but was turned down (uptight Christians, even then). Later on, while on the run from prosecution, he found refuge in a Christian church in north Africa. Muslims also acknowledge Jesus as a profet of Allah, though they disagree on the "son of God" part. (some capable Muslim please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this). My point being that the roots of the 3 major religions are intertwined and bear a kind of common wisdom, which in my view, adds to each others credibility historically and context vise, no need to judge any of them right or wrong. Further a lot of European culture and society is based on Christian ethics and values which is great common good that we should not forget.
So my take on religion is twofold. It's an important lesson to be told about humanity and it helps me on a personal level to be the person I want to be.
My personal concept of God is a personal one one I don't often share and don't need to share to get some kind of ratification from others.
That's why I say that we don't disagree that much, maybe only on the part about wiping any religion of the surface of the earth, but as you state yourself, doing so would make politics or other powers take it's place with it's own gods.
Cheres
Im not sure why your arguing the existence of a God with me? I said 1 page back they may or may not be a god and I can see why people could get drawn to either side of the fence.
My issue is with organised Religion, nothing more than a form of control, sure its become more than that now for some, but in essence thats all it is.
It may or may not apply to you, depending if you're on topic or not. See this quote from OP:
I'm an atheist and have the following standpoint:
- All religions are hoaxes, making people belive in non-existing gods.
I believe my points are on topic exactly.
Religion teaches us that existence isn't centered on yourself.
So if your not religious your self centred? No, but religion can give a self-centered person reasons why they shouldn't be.
Yeah I find things such as having kids, family and friends for example, tend to be better at pointing out that life isnt all about you than any religion.
Sorry I say organised religion, which is a sweeping statement to make, Buddhism is a great example of a religion that wasnt created to control and manipulate, Catholicism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism yadda yadda however, not so much. Pretty obvious that this shit was thought up by some power perverts.
The whole notion religion was thought up as a means to control society, where as politics has simply evolved into a means to control society. To begin with politics had rather good intentions id say. There for they differ, so for you to use my response in answer to your question of whether following a political party makes you a moron and turning that into us being on the same page because you can be part of a religion but not condone many of its actions is sly and aggravating.
If you believe, in a man made fiction, created to control other human beings, your a moron, its simple as that man, please try to explain your view point without twisting my words this time.
If you believe, in a man made fiction, created to control other human beings, your a moron, its simple as that man, please try to explain your view point without twisting my words this time.
I sense that many pretend they are outraged only at the injustices and abuse that do happen in some religious institutions; but really, the one thing they are most offended by, in my opinion, is the idea that there is a God and that he has rules.
Admit it.
After all, if the 1st humans were created by God, they would not only know about God, they would pass the story down to their children. If there was no God, how could you prevent the truth from getting out? Since evolution allegedly started with two humans, one male and one female, who exactly are they trying to control when they invented religion?
If there truly was no God, there would be a vocal majority of people who would testify that their ancestors never told any such stories of creation or God. Where are these people? I cannot recall to mind any society which does not have some form of creation and God legends in their history.
If there were such a society, and there was indeed no God, they would flourish unimpeded by the advantages of not "wasting" time and resources with religion, and dominate the whole world. Eventually eradicating all religious beliefs entirely.
Since evolution theory claims humanity has existed with the mental capacity for religion (and the debunking of it) for tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of years, where is this super race that is free of the heavy yoke of a supreme creator?
If the simplest answer is usually true, I submit that the function of religion is very simply humanity's (flawed) effort to acknowledge and worship the true and living God.
Im not sure why your arguing the existence of a God with me? I said 1 page back they may or may not be a god and I can see why people could get drawn to either side of the fence.
My issue is with organised Religion, nothing more than a form of control, sure its become more than that now for some, but in essence thats all it is.
The whole notion religion was thought up as a means to control society, where as politics has simply evolved into a means to control society. To begin with politics had rather good intentions id say. There for they differ, so for you to use my response in answer to your question of whether following a political party makes you a moron and turning that into us being on the same page because you can be part of a religion but not condone many of its actions is sly and aggravating.
If you believe, in a man made fiction, created to control other human beings, your a moron, its simple as that man, please try to explain your view point without twisting my words this time.
If you believe, in a man made fiction, created to control other human beings, your a moron, its simple as that man, please try to explain your view point without twisting my words this time.
I sense that many pretend they are outraged only at the injustices and abuse that do happen in some religious institutions; but really, the one thing they are most offended by, in my opinion, is the idea that there is a God and that he has rules.
Admit it.
After all, if the 1st humans were created by God, they would not only know about God, they would pass the story down to their children. If there was no God, how could you prevent the truth from getting out? Since evolution allegedly started with two humans, one male and one female, who exactly are they trying to control when they invented religion?
If there truly was no God, there would be a vocal majority of people who would testify that their ancestors never told any such stories of creation or God. Where are these people? I cannot recall to mind any society which does not have some form of creation and God legends in their history.
If there were such a society, and there was indeed no God, they would flourish unimpeded by the advantages of not "wasting" time and resources with religion, to dominate the whole world. Eventually eradicating all religious beliefs entirely.
Since evolution theory claims humanity has existed with the mental capacity for religion (and the debunking of it) for tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of years, where is this super race that is free of the heavy yoke of a supreme creator?
If the simplest answer is usually true, I submit that the function of religion is very simply humanity's (flawed) effort to acknowledge and worship the true and living God.
Religion teaches us that existence isn't centered on yourself.
So if your not religious your self centred? No, but religion can give a self-centered person reasons why they shouldn't be.
Remember the old 80's school slogan "Drugs, just say no."
Well, I've always followed the notion "Religion, just say no."
Well, I've always followed the notion "Religion, just say no."
Religion teaches us that existence isn't centered on yourself.
So if your not religious your self centred?
Religion teaches us that existence isn't centered on yourself.
The whole notion religion was thought up as a means to control society, where as politics has simply evolved into a means to control society. To begin with politics had rather good intentions id say. There for they differ, so for you to use my response in answer to your question of whether following a political party makes you a moron and turning that into us being on the same page because you can be part of a religion but not condone many of its actions is sly and aggravating.
If you believe, in a man made fiction, created to control other human beings, your a moron, its simple as that man, please try to explain your view point without twisting my words this time.
If you believe, in a man made fiction, created to control other human beings, your a moron, its simple as that man, please try to explain your view point without twisting my words this time.
LOL, I'll reread!
Okay Chang, we are completely on the same page then, so don't call participants in a religion morons, they might have looked through the corrupt / scammy institution that they are a member of. Like being a Catholic does not mean that you don't believe children where ever abused or money are not pocketed in the Vatican.
Like vise, if you do local political work, like gathering signatures to save a wild life area and you are a democrat, you can still believe that your party's foreign policy is total crap and actually like the oppositions policies on the matter better.
religion has been, and is still being used as means for control. If you are a an official state supported or accepted religion, you have to make some compromises and give something in return to make it worth while for the state in which you operate.
As a simple private member you don't have to condone that or write of your practices because you doubt the integrity of your organisation and you know that others will feel like you too.
If I lived in a dictatorship and religion was used to pacify opposition or round them up, I would find another church.
About Muslims i general; I'm often met with greater common understanding From Muslims than the run-of-the-mill Christian, and we usually joke about that Allah and God is the same entity, so what went wrong!
Like vise, if you do local political work, like gathering signatures to save a wild life area and you are a democrat, you can still believe that your party's foreign policy is total crap and actually like the oppositions policies on the matter better.
religion has been, and is still being used as means for control. If you are a an official state supported or accepted religion, you have to make some compromises and give something in return to make it worth while for the state in which you operate.
As a simple private member you don't have to condone that or write of your practices because you doubt the integrity of your organisation and you know that others will feel like you too.
If I lived in a dictatorship and religion was used to pacify opposition or round them up, I would find another church.
About Muslims i general; I'm often met with greater common understanding From Muslims than the run-of-the-mill Christian, and we usually joke about that Allah and God is the same entity, so what went wrong!
Okay Luno, so we're completely not on the same page here, I suggest you re-read my posts because the point was clearly missed by yourself.
Edit: re-read my posts for myself and wow, how you thought in anyway way we're on the same page is beyond me, unless your seeing things you want to see.
If your part of a religion, your a moron, as explained in my first post, everything you posted above is irrelevant and has nothing to do with what ive said. So please, we are not remotely on the same page.
Okay Chang, we are completely on the same page then, so don't call participants in a religion morons, they might have looked through the corrupt / scammy institution that they are a member of. Like being a Catholic does not mean that you don't believe children where ever abused or money are not pocketed in the Vatican.
Like vise, if you do local political work, like gathering signatures to save a wild life area and you are a democrat, you can still believe that your party's foreign policy is total crap and actually like the oppositions policies on the matter better.
religion has been, and is still being used as means for control. If you are a an official state supported or accepted religion, you have to make some compromises and give something in return to make it worth while for the state in which you operate.
As a simple private member you don't have to condone that or write of your practices because you doubt the integrity of your organisation and you know that others will feel like you too.
If I lived in a dictatorship and religion was used to pacify opposition or round them up, I would find another church.
About Muslims i general; I'm often met with greater common understanding From Muslims than the run-of-the-mill Christian, and we usually joke about that Allah and God is the same entity, so what went wrong!
Like vise, if you do local political work, like gathering signatures to save a wild life area and you are a democrat, you can still believe that your party's foreign policy is total crap and actually like the oppositions policies on the matter better.
religion has been, and is still being used as means for control. If you are a an official state supported or accepted religion, you have to make some compromises and give something in return to make it worth while for the state in which you operate.
As a simple private member you don't have to condone that or write of your practices because you doubt the integrity of your organisation and you know that others will feel like you too.
If I lived in a dictatorship and religion was used to pacify opposition or round them up, I would find another church.
About Muslims i general; I'm often met with greater common understanding From Muslims than the run-of-the-mill Christian, and we usually joke about that Allah and God is the same entity, so what went wrong!
Well, there are people who have been clinically dead and came back.
Common reports: Floating above dead body and surrounding environment. Tunnel of light.
Common reports: Floating above dead body and surrounding environment. Tunnel of light.
I didn't see anything. Was just black, and then no memory until I came back.
BTW, I recently read that when you die, your body releases all kinds of chemicals from it's various glands, and you, as they said, "seriously trip balls." I.e. hallucinations and other crazy stuff. That may explain the lights and other stuff.
Pretty sure DMT gets released when you die, so yeah, plenty of hallucinations. Dont quote me on that tho
Well, there are people who have been clinically dead and came back.
Common reports: Floating above dead body and surrounding environment. Tunnel of light.
Common reports: Floating above dead body and surrounding environment. Tunnel of light.
I didn't see anything. Was just black, and then no memory until I came back.
BTW, I recently read that when you die, your body releases all kinds of chemicals from it's various glands, and you, as they said, "seriously trip balls." I.e. hallucinations and other crazy stuff. That may explain the lights and other stuff.
Im not from the US myself, so I cant know until Ive seen what sort of community work your talking about. But why does it have to be political? Why not do local community work? keep the political angle out of it?
I love politics; the idea of the politics atleast. Unfortunately the actuality of them makes me very frustrated.
The comment was not so much that if you support a political party your a moron, (although one could argue there is a pretty strong case for that too) but more the fact that Western democracy is nothing more than a sham, the idea that the people 'choose' who is in power is drilled into you as you grow up, then you reach an age where you actually take an interest in political matters only to find that the idea of a free society which was fed to you whilst in education is in fact a lie. But whats worse is some people remain oblivious to this lie.
I love politics; the idea of the politics atleast. Unfortunately the actuality of them makes me very frustrated.
The comment was not so much that if you support a political party your a moron, (although one could argue there is a pretty strong case for that too) but more the fact that Western democracy is nothing more than a sham, the idea that the people 'choose' who is in power is drilled into you as you grow up, then you reach an age where you actually take an interest in political matters only to find that the idea of a free society which was fed to you whilst in education is in fact a lie. But whats worse is some people remain oblivious to this lie.
The Function of Religion: To control humans. simple as that, your a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Catholic? Congratz for eating their shit up and even more congratz for being in denial about it.
Now is there a god? Totally different question, by all means, be spiritual, have your own beliefs, can anyone know if there is or isnt a god? No, not yet atleast.
Religion is a cancer on mankind, the sooner those infected die off, the better for the rest of us. Again, nothing wrong with believing in a god, being spiritual, but conforming to a religion such as the ones above makes you a buffoon. Open your eyes, read some history, not hard to see the fact that many if not most religions, are nothing more than a form of manipulation, its really quite simple to see and its depressing that even in todayls world you have morons killing each other over who's belief system is correct, bunch of muppets, the lot of them.
And anyone saying muslims are worse than anyone else, fuck you, your a moron too. They are all the same, a bit like political partys.
Now is there a god? Totally different question, by all means, be spiritual, have your own beliefs, can anyone know if there is or isnt a god? No, not yet atleast.
Religion is a cancer on mankind, the sooner those infected die off, the better for the rest of us. Again, nothing wrong with believing in a god, being spiritual, but conforming to a religion such as the ones above makes you a buffoon. Open your eyes, read some history, not hard to see the fact that many if not most religions, are nothing more than a form of manipulation, its really quite simple to see and its depressing that even in todayls world you have morons killing each other over who's belief system is correct, bunch of muppets, the lot of them.
And anyone saying muslims are worse than anyone else, fuck you, your a moron too. They are all the same, a bit like political partys.
That's was my question answered, but Chang, if you are an U.S. citizen do you acknowledge that you can be a Republican or Democrat and do meaningful local political community work but consider Romney or Obama morons?
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