Topic: The function of religion ? - page 23. (Read 18646 times)

I'm not sure what you are asking. What are you seeking an explanation for?

Another thing is that the theory of evolution is indeed a magical explanation to most people (ie "sufficently advanced tech is indistinguishable from magic"). Trusting the magical explanations of others is advantageous in complex, specialized societies, which is why we are bred to do it. If there are multiple competing explanations, in the end it boils down to the individual choosing based on a combination of argument from authority and argument from consensus. So the important thing is how to make the choice of authorities and peer groups.

Atheism isn't reasonable or rational. Otherwise atheists would make up the majority.

Human beings are generally quite rational. The argument for God is much more rational than the argument against.

The most magical explanation of all is (the theory of) evolution. The atheist boldy claims "Evolution did it, see, here's the evidence".

Yes, yes but HOW? Evolution is a theory, not a process. It lives in the imagination only. Magic.

Well, there's yer problem, right there.

The ability to trust others when they give magical explanations for things is vestigial trait from childhood that has been extended into adulthood. It is good for a child to possess this trait since they have so much less knowledge of the world than the person telling them what to do and so would not understand more complicated explanations. The process is called neoteny. It is common amongst domesticated animals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny

Where did it come from in the first place? Malicious aliens meddling with DNA?

If God exists, obviously he would create in us the ability to appreciate him.

Human designers would kill to have this ability in their own creations.

People have been bred to have the "religious gene", it makes them easier to manipulate.

Where is this happy, God-free, advantaged, humanistic society? If what atheism offers is truly better, why is it that all theists haven't disappeared? After all, they just need to listen to reason to be converted. Atheism must not be as reasonable or rational as you suggest. Atheism is estimated to have a following of about 2% of world population overall. The vast minority is telling the majority they aren't rational? Something is wrong with that picture.

Why does evolution supposedly insist on keeping the 'religious gene' in place? If evolution has produced its best work in sorting out the ideal creature, why are you arguing against theism? Accept it. It must be good!

You believe Islam follows the true God? Painting Christians and Islamist with the same violent brush is extreme. Ignorant at best.

There is a God, he allows willful disbelief, and doesn't force anyone. This is what we see in modern society.

The question why to believe, is more important than the what to believe.

AKA 'Survival of the fittest' or Darwinism - same thing.
Religion is not independent of the natural world - it's clearly part of the natural world (otherwise it wouldn't exist).
If you believe it's something beyond nature then your beliefs are the same as religion - they are invoking something supernatural and outside of nature.
If you want to defeat it then breed.

Thanks Chang, I don't have a UK IP so I can not watch this.

I myself, would love to know more about early Islamic history. The funny thing is that Paulus in christanity also had dictations "from God" but he is considered the author, but in Islam Suggesting that there are variations between early sources of the Quran, thus some kind of author involved, is strongly blasfemic.

There are some early Qurans and papers in existence found in odd places, some have been published others are kept under lock. The Vatican has done the the same thing, deciding which sources should be public and be part of the bible, but historians have access to most of it, we think.

We need more Islamic religion historians, it would be a great gift to Muslims and the world.

Reading up on Tom holland

With regards to the history of Islam, I found this very interesting: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/islam-the-untold-story

Well worth a watch if you have the time

Great round up Rassah: About the last part. Sure Christianity have put it's name to a lot of murder and oppression through history. What I was talking about was the equality, enlightment movement in Europe in the 17'th century. It was a secular revolution which in some sense also was against the church, but also a continuation of Martin Luther's reformation. human rights, women rights. Fair trial practices, parliamentarism, is in essence the implementation of the Christian equality ethics in society.

The only reason you are outraged and offended by leprechauns is because you know they are stealing your shiny things.
Admit it.



Such a society would be too focused on happily living their lives and trying to make their lives better (like the modern secular countries, and unlike the modern religious countries), NOT trying to dominate others. On the other hand,
Christianity/Judaism/Islam wasted a lot of resources trying to figure out how to torture and kill anyone who didn't believe in their crap. So obviously the group that believes in illogical crap that tell them to kill others because a magic sky voice told them to will eradicate the rational society that believes people should be left alone to live however they want.




You know what else can? Santa Claus.


*cough* um, I was fairly sure it was paganism throughout most of Europe, and Norse gods in the colder parts. At least until Christianity came through and maimed and killed anyone who didn't believe the same as the Christians.

You're welcome.

Although, let me add that a prediction is not the same thing as prophecy.

In ancient Israel, if a prophet of God made a short-term 'prediction' that didn't come true, he was stoned to death.

Thanks Foggyb: Daniel made a lot of predictions and was very specific about Jesus. I don't think all of it is kosher with the Vatican, but that besides the point. Thank you.

and to senbonzakura: I tried to Google this, but did not have much success. You'll have to ask an Imam or scholar. I think the author of the article was from Germany.

nighty night.

Wayne Jackson wrote this:

The prophetical details set forth in Daniel are astounding. If we may paraphrase Newton (in his discussion of the period from Alexander’s death to the reign of Antiochus), there is no historical record so complete, and none so concise and comprehensive, as that given by Daniel. No single writer has related so many circumstances, in such exact order of time, as Daniel foretold them. He, even in prophecy, is more perfect than any single historical account – Greek, Roman or Jewish!

This is quoted from allaboutthejourney.org.


The Book of Daniel was written 500 years before the birth of Jesus. In Chapter 9, Daniel predicts the very day that the Messiah would enter Jerusalem and present himself as king for the first time. The prophecy states that 69 weeks of years (69 x 7 = 483 years) would pass from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Messiah. 3 Since Daniel was written in Babylon during the Jewish captivity after the fall of Jerusalem, this prophecy was based on the Babylonian 360-day calendar. Thus, 483 years x 360 days = 173,880 days.

According to records found in the Shushan (Susa) Palace, and confirmed in Nehemiah 2:1, the decree to rebuild Jerusalem was issued by the Persian king, Artaxerxes Longimanus, on March 5, 444 BC. Remarkably, 173,880 days later (adjusting for leap years), on March 30, 33 AD, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey (fulfilling the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9).4 Five days later, Jesus was crucified on a Roman cross just outside Jerusalem. (Actually, the form of his execution and even his last words were foretold hundreds of years earlier in Psalm 22.) Three days later, the New Testament accounts declare that Jesus rose from the dead on Easter Sunday, fulfilling numerous other prophecies of the long-awaited Messiah.


Here's another good link: http://www.ukapologetics.net/2danieltrue.html

Senbonzakura: It think the authorized interpretation in the Koran is that he was lost i.e. had not found god yet. Some early Koran versions uses different wordings for this suggesting that he was in "trouble" as in with the law. As stated I'm no qualified to evaluate Islamic historical sources myself. The info I got from an article some years ago. I can't remember by whom. Someone can confirm or deny this I think.

Great, someone actually knows religion history. I was trying to underline real life aspect in historical sources, not that good on the details myself as I wished for.... Looked op the Book of Daniel. Are you talking about the dreams of Nebukanedser? I only thought it was about the coming of Israel and God saving the Jewish people not very specific on how. Do you have chapter / verse for it?