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Topic: The function of religion ? - page 29. (Read 18646 times)

legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080
October 01, 2012, 05:41:43 AM
#33
When a person believes that there is nothing beyond what they currently experience, the mind reaches a state of perceptual stagnation.

Very few people think there is nothing beyond what they currently experience, because we experience very little of the whole world.  Think about astronomers.  They might believe there is nothing beyond what could possibly be experienced, yet they don't lack any imagination to create new ways of seeing beyond what could previously be seen and thereby discover new worlds.  And sometimes, these new words blow our minds:  there are many quite amazing stuff in the universe.

So believing there is nothing beyond what can be experienced does not produce stagnation of the mind, on the contrary:  it gives an incentive to expand our ability to experience things.

Quote
A common example of this most people might recognize is reading a book verses watching the same story in movie form. When one watches a movie, one is fed the sounds, pictures, and scenarios directly and almost completely based on ones senses, rather than ones thought process. When a person reads a book it has been proven that the mind is more active because it in fact must create all of the previously mentioned sensory images from ones mind, either imagined or experienced in the past. If this part of the mind is not exercised, as any muscle left inactive, its ability to function will atrophy just like a muscle. Occasionally the mind will be called upon to invoke images for which it has no previous association. This is when the mind is truly exercised and has potential to create something new and amazing.

Yes, imagination is great.  And fantasy is often an effective way to exercise it.  But you don't need to actually believe it.  I like Star Wars movies and yet I don't believe in the power of the Force.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
October 01, 2012, 03:58:21 AM
#32
Wow, this tread has gotten a lot more interesting with posters now agreeing to discuss the meta properties of religion, not just discussing for / against etc.

Thumbs +1
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 1958
First Exclusion Ever
October 01, 2012, 03:13:15 AM
#31
One thing I often find missing from debates such as these is the fact that faith in something greater than oneself is an inductive force to creative growth and innovation in a very real and physical way, no actual interference from deities required. When a person believes that there is nothing beyond what they currently experience, the mind reaches a state of perceptual stagnation.

A common example of this most people might recognize is reading a book verses watching the same story in movie form. When one watches a movie, one is fed the sounds, pictures, and scenarios directly and almost completely based on ones senses, rather than ones thought process. When a person reads a book it has been proven that the mind is more active because it in fact must create all of the previously mentioned sensory images from ones mind, either imagined or experienced in the past. If this part of the mind is not exercised, as any muscle left inactive, its ability to function will atrophy just like a muscle. Occasionally the mind will be called upon to invoke images for which it has no previous association. This is when the mind is truly exercised and has potential to create something new and amazing.

This being said, the less one challenges the mind to perceive of the possibility of something greater than ones self, the less likely one will be to have exercised that part of the human mind which can often lead to amazing and inexplicable logical leaps that have been the drivers of innovation since human self awareness existed. 

On a more personal note, I find it quite arrogant for anyone, believer or not, to claim that they know what "God" is in any shape or form, know "God"'s possibility of existence is, or have the capacity to comprehend an omniscient being for that matter. In my opinion you should believe whatever you like, just don't pretend like some how you have figured it out any more than the rest of us.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080
September 29, 2012, 02:35:29 AM
#30
Religions do not necessary have a function per se.  They exist just because they can, as all living species do.

You guys should consider listening to Daniel Dennet's view on the subject.  He sees religion as a natural phenomenon of memetic nature which takes its roots in superstition but has evolved in a very sophisticated, domestic form.

«
- Evolutionary theory of religion?  Oh yes:  every human group that's every been studied has religion so it must be doing us some good.  So what is it for?   What do you think religion is for?  It must be for something if every society has them, right?
- Yeah...  And every society that has ever been studied also has the common cold.  What's that for?
»

legendary
Activity: 1264
Merit: 1008
September 28, 2012, 11:26:38 PM
#29
In the beginning, god created hash, and it was good.
 
Pardon me but do you know where is the satoshi mecca ?
I'm ok with facing east every 10 minutes and mumbling SHA256 mumbo jumbo but i want somewhere to go where I can show off my tinfoil hat with deluded masses.

Yeah a black cube of solid ASIC power would work well.  Hmm..     
Praise The world He began almost 200,000 blocks ago, sorry to disturb you.     


member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
September 28, 2012, 05:02:56 PM
#28
All I can say about religion is:

If god does exist; I hope he's got some good excuses.

haha ikr?
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
September 28, 2012, 04:48:43 PM
#27
Interesting Senbonzakura, I did not know about him. Looking it up further it appears the basic idea goes even further back.

Quote
Anaximander (play /əˌnæksɨˈmændər/; Greek: Ἀναξίμανδρος Anaximandros; c. 610 – c. 546 BC) was a pre-Socratic Greek philosopher who lived in Miletus, a city of Ionia; Milet in modern Turkey. He belonged to the Milesian school and learned the teachings of his master Thales. He succeeded Thales and became the second master of that school where he counted Anaximenes and arguably, Pythagoras amongst his pupils.

....

Origin of humankind

Anaximander speculated about the beginnings and origin of animal life. Taking into account the existence of fossils, he claimed that animals sprang out of the sea long ago. The first animals were born trapped in a spiny bark, but as they got older, the bark would dry up and break.[40] As the early humidity evaporated, dry land emerged and, in time, humankind had to adapt. The 3rd century Roman writer Censorinus reports:

    Anaximander of Miletus considered that from warmed up water and earth emerged either fish or entirely fishlike animals. Inside these animals, men took form and embryos were held prisoners until puberty; only then, after these animals burst open, could men and women come out, now able to feed themselves.[41]

Anaximander put forward the idea that humans had to spend part of this transition inside the mouths of big fish to protect themselves from the Earth's climate until they could come out in open air and lose their scales.[42] He thought that, considering humans' extended infancy, we could not have survived in the primeval world in the same manner we do presently.

Even though he had no theory of natural selection, some people consider him as evolution's most ancient proponent. (The theory of an aquatic descent of man was re-conceived centuries later as the aquatic ape hypothesis.) These pre-Darwinian concepts may seem strange, considering modern knowledge and scientific methods, because they present complete explanations of the universe while using bold and hard-to-demonstrate hypotheses. However, they illustrate the beginning of a phenomenon sometimes called the "Greek miracle": men try to explain the nature of the world, not with the aid of myths or religion, but with material principles. This is the very principle of scientific thought[dubious – discuss][citation needed], which was later advanced further by improved research methods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaximander_of_Miletus

hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
September 28, 2012, 04:20:21 PM
#26
Evolution only cares about how much you reproduce which is correlated with survival. My opinion on religion is that a primary reason it became a successful meme because if you can introduce a nugget of FUD into a possible enemies head that some terrible thing may happen to them if they challenge you (even if they win), they are less likely to challenge you and, if they do challenge you, they are more likely to doubt themselves.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
September 28, 2012, 01:55:48 PM
#25
Evolution only cares about survival - I follow your religion and I raise my kids or else I genetically fail. The only benefit is survival.
The Zoroastrians were wiped out by Islam. The European pagans were wiped out by Christians - either convert or die.
It's pure tribalism - evolution doesn't promise any benefit or advance just survival (hence worms are so successful).
If having an emotional symptom makes survival more likely then it will be selected. If rationalism makes survival more likely then it will be selected. Wait a few thousand years and we'll have our answer.

Very interesting large picture view from you. I'd love to peek 5000 years ahead!
hero member
Activity: 955
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2012, 12:21:44 PM
#24

The question really isn't one of belief - it must be one of evolution. Religion must have provided a substantial evolutionary advantage otherwise it couldn't have existed at all.


That is not true, there are a lot of things that evolved that have absolutely no beneficial function.  Religion is more likely a symptom of a emotion brain along with a cognitive brain.

Evolution only cares about survival - I follow your religion and I raise my kids or else I genetically fail. The only benefit is survival.
The Zoroastrians were wiped out by Islam. The European pagans were wiped out by Christians - either convert or die.
It's pure tribalism - evolution doesn't promise any benefit or advance just survival (hence worms are so successful).
If having an emotional symptom makes survival more likely then it will be selected. If rationalism makes survival more likely then it will be selected. Wait a few thousand years and we'll have our answer.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
September 28, 2012, 10:31:02 AM
#23
The function of religion is simple: it provides the illusion of control. When your life is out of control, it's comforting to think that Somewhere up there, god has a plan for you.
Yep, and another insult to our little brain is that everything around us most probably will be still there when we are dont. This insulting feeling makes us create heavens and world-end scenarios, we just cant stand the fact that its over one time and everything else will go on as is, ironic, isnt it.

I think if people understand they're truly insignificant, some may perhaps lack a feeling of purpose ?

A few years ago, I went to a grave yard in a very rich neigbourhood, and those with most 'money and power', had made bronze heads of their own head on their grave. And of course, with a lot of nice bragging words on a metallic plate attached to it.

The only thing I could think of was: "Hahahahaha, yeah, like it fucking matters, they're dead".

Same with some living persons, they put themselves in very high regard, but most people are insignificant and expendable, I would say all are.

When we realize that, and in addition realize that we're the only one that can steer our own life in the direction of our choice, then we're in control.

sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
September 28, 2012, 02:42:13 AM
#22
The function of religion is simple: it provides the illusion of control. When your life is out of control, it's comforting to think that Somewhere up there, god has a plan for you.
Yep, and another insult to our little brain is that everything around us most probably will be still there when we are dont. This insulting feeling makes us create heavens and world-end scenarios, we just cant stand the fact that its over one time and everything else will go on as is, ironic, isnt it.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
September 28, 2012, 02:33:31 AM
#21
The function of religion is simple: it provides the illusion of control. When your life is out of control, it's comforting to think that Somewhere up there, god has a plan for you.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
September 28, 2012, 02:20:21 AM
#20
The way i understand most religions are spending hope and giving a guidance on ethics.
However, the hope thing is hardly to archive by an other way, think a moment how many people live in bad conditions, for me its no wonder so many believe in some sort of god.
hero member
Activity: 926
Merit: 1001
weaving spiders come not here
September 28, 2012, 02:05:04 AM
#19
Function of organised religion is control. Its tools are violence, ignorance, fear and guilt.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
September 27, 2012, 02:38:45 PM
#18

The question really isn't one of belief - it must be one of evolution. Religion must have provided a substantial evolutionary advantage otherwise it couldn't have existed at all.


That is not true, there are a lot of things that evolved that have absolutely no beneficial function.  Religion is more likely a symptom of a emotion brain along with a cognitive brain.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
September 27, 2012, 12:24:49 PM
#17
The evolutionary reasons are fairly basic: we as a species survive by trying to learn about and explain the world around us, and we survive by being social/tribal and rejecting other tribes so they don't encroach on our land and food supplies. Since we couldn't explain everything well a long time ago, we came up with religious stories. And since we're tribal, we tended to kill anyone who wasn't like us. Doesn't even necessarily mean that the religion outcome was evolutionarily beneficial. It could just be a side-effect of the previous two parts that we somehow managed to survive in spite of, like our appendixes and bad teeth.
As for being outraged over movies, that's to be expected when people are raised with the idea that they shouldn't question and shouldn't let evidence influence them. Yay for science instead.
hero member
Activity: 955
Merit: 1002
September 27, 2012, 12:16:33 PM
#16
Religion is ubiquitous and universal in human culture (in some form for hundreds of thousands of years). Anthropologically that suggests it's a pretty significant component of evolved human behavior.
It's only after the enlightenment that we get any notion of the possibility that it's all nonsense.
The question really isn't one of belief - it must be one of evolution. Religion must have provided a substantial evolutionary advantage otherwise it couldn't have existed at all.
The majority of people who have ever existed would have followed religious forms because they would not have had any alternative and simply conformed to the social norms of the time and place they happened to have been born in.
It's no different for people today - the norm says 'work 8 hours a day helping this company make money for shareholders' - and people go along with it; even though it's completely pointless and irrational.
Everything we do is irrational - if we were rational we would immediately see how insignificant and pointless our personal existence is (based on the facts that make it clear that we are trivial specs of dust in an infinite universe - our actions are hopeless and irrelevant and arbitrary) and kill ourselves.
People do not live their lives rationally - they are driven by the genetic imperative to survive. If religion means survival then religion is the way to go.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
September 27, 2012, 11:18:31 AM
#15
senbonzakura:

It seems like I never stopps to be flabbergasted as the reaction of some people, no matter they religion.

In all fairness, I think most religions have their fair share of outrage.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
September 27, 2012, 02:57:38 AM
#14
Why do you help others then?
The same reason he doesn't kill apostates or become a suicide bomber. If someone genuinely believes that god wants them to kill you, should they do it?
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