The Holy Grail! I wish I could kiss the author of Bitmessage on his face. - page 5.

fellowtraveler

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

I'm going to post my final answers to this thread, and lock it.

I've already put up a bounty to get the necessary UI coded.

(If there are more questions, feel free to start another thread.)

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Quote from: Artofficial on June 05, 2013, 05:58:27 PM

Would this "The Holy Grail" stabilize BTC in such a way where each fiat has a colored representation on the blockchain?

Yes, see this reply.

Also, this reply.

As well as this reply.

And this reply as well.

Also this reply.

This reply as well.

More on colored coin issuers.

Are colored coins impacted by the minimum transfer requirement?

Also a discussion on credentials and the distribution of risk.

Also: The Holy Grail in 7 Easy Steps.

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Quote from: bluemeanie1

does anyone besides yourself(who is not anonymous) support your claims as to what this software does?

I suggest people take "bluemeanie1" (aka Joshua Zeidner) with a grain of salt.

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HAND HOLDING

People asked for some hand-holding on compiling OT: Hand-holding.

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People asked about donations to the OT project. (Currently I am using those to pay the Holy Grail Bounty.)

The address is: 1NtTPVVjDsUfDWybS4BwvHpG2pdS9RnYyQ

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Answering questions about getting funds in/out of the legacy banking system...

Answer 1.

Answer 2.

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VOTING POOLS

Answer about the voting pools.

Another answer.

This one also.

More on this.

Even more.

Distribution of risk across multiple pools.

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Alright that's it, thank you all for your excellent questions! Now let's build this thing!

Artofficial

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

TLDR
Quick question

Would this "The Holy Grail" stabilize BTC in such a way where each fiat has a colored representation on the blockchain?

bluemeanie1

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 257

bluemeanie

Quote from: fellowtraveler on June 05, 2013, 05:21:47 PM

How does Open-Transactions benefit Bitcoin?

does anyone besides yourself(who is not anonymous) support your claims as to what this software does?

fellowtraveler

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

How does Open-Transactions benefit Bitcoin?

bluemeanie1

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 257

bluemeanie

Quote from: fellowtraveler on May 24, 2013, 03:19:39 AM

Quote from: caveden on May 24, 2013, 03:17:00 AM

Quote from: fellowtraveler on May 24, 2013, 02:46:01 AM

I think if you read the above posts I wrote, you will see that no, you don't lose the censorship-resistance features of the cryptocurrencies, because they are not sent directly to the OT server, but rather, are stored in a voting pool on the blockchain, where those coins are recoverable even in the event that the server itself disappears.

My apologies for making you repeat yourself. I ignore how these voting pools works. I'm guessing it's a large multi-signature thing (many people together can replace the signature of the server), but definitely I need to study it a lot more.

Thanks.

It's just a safe place to store coins, ON THE BLOCKCHAIN, so that an OT server can issue units based on those coins, yet without having the ultimate power to disappear with those coins.

So if OT relies on the Block Chain why use Open Transactions at all?

fellowtraveler

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Announcement:

===> I have just posted a BOUNTY for this.

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on June 03, 2013, 01:42:25 AM

I just sent Bitmessage.org to a friend of mine on the front lines in Istanbul. He has reposted it to twitter as we speak.

this might go down in the history books.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

here is my address BM-2DCLDXTLT4RH6Wb2xpHspHFN3fHghVdsLn if anyone wants to subscribe to it ill make sure to write something periodically for the hell of it Grin

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on June 03, 2013, 01:42:25 AM

I just sent Bitmessage.org to a friend of mine on the front lines in Istanbul. He has reposted it to twitter as we speak. This could be a watershed moment for Bitmessage! If people can try and publicise Bitmessage.org as much as possible, share on twitter/facebook/etc we can give people in repressed regimes everywhere the ability to communicate!

ill download it, how do i message you?

crazy_rabbit

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

I just sent Bitmessage.org to a friend of mine on the front lines in Istanbul. He has reposted it to twitter as we speak. This could be a watershed moment for Bitmessage! If people can try and publicise Bitmessage.org as much as possible, share on twitter/facebook/etc we can give people in repressed regimes everywhere the ability to communicate!

fellowtraveler

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Quote from: caveden on June 03, 2013, 12:55:39 AM

Quote from: boonies4u on June 02, 2013, 06:39:36 PM

Are colored coins even economical in 0.8.2? I heard some concerns that the stifling of dust transactions would effect them.

You could either waste the arbitrary amount of 5430 satoshis for every colored coin, or, with the collaboration of a single mining pool, you can get colored coins transactions through even with 1 satoshi outputs. Obviously miners would request some fee to be paid, that's why I wonder if an alternate chain wouldn't be a better idea as fees could be paid with the tokens themselves, but anyway, colored coins on the main chain are already implemented, an alternate chain would have to be created from scratch.

If you think 7 cents is too much to pay, to move 1000 Euros (see my example above) then you are really going to hate PayPal. (Also note that it could be 10,000 Euros, or any amount, really.) Also of course, the issuer will have a fee for doing so, and that fee will include the cost of the bank wire.

However, your ideas are sound. It doesn't really matter to me which way it goes, as long as I have access to use those colored coins.

caveden

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1004

Quote from: boonies4u on June 02, 2013, 06:39:36 PM

Are colored coins even economical in 0.8.2? I heard some concerns that the stifling of dust transactions would effect them.

You could either waste the arbitrary amount of 5430 satoshis for every colored coin, or, with the collaboration of a single mining pool, you can get colored coins transactions through even with 1 satoshi outputs. Obviously miners would request some fee to be paid, that's why I wonder if an alternate chain wouldn't be a better idea as fees could be paid with the tokens themselves, but anyway, colored coins on the main chain are already implemented, an alternate chain would have to be created from scratch.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: boonies4u on June 02, 2013, 06:39:36 PM

Are colored coins even economical in 0.8.2? I heard some concerns that the stifling of dust transactions would effect them.

Coloured coins can always go on the namecoin blockchain where they get almost as good security because of merged mining. Imho, that is the best place for them as it offers other possibilities, tying identifiers and credentials to coloured coins being the most obvious, but others also.

fellowtraveler

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Quote from: boonies4u on June 02, 2013, 06:39:36 PM

Are colored coins even economical in 0.8.2? I heard some concerns that the stifling of dust transactions would effect them.

Let's assume that the smallest possible transfer is 0.00005430 BTC -- and let's assume a fee of 0.0005.

Therefore, a total transfer of: 0.00055430 BTC

As I write this, the last trade on MtGox was at the price: $121.50000 per BTC.

Therefore, 0.00055430 is (measured in dollars) worth a little less than 7 cents, aka $0.07.

Let's say that the above transfer is used to issue a colored coin with the value of 1000 Euros...

This colored coin could remain on the blockchain, but if you moved it to an OT server, you could break it up into 1000 units and trade them as individual Euros.

...From this point, you can trade in units of 1, or 5, or 20 Euros (etc) and you could trade these units with your friends for physical Euros. (Or, if you put 1000 of them together, you could go directly to the issuer and obey KYC / AML and get a bank wire.)

boonies4u

hero member

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Are colored coins even economical in 0.8.2? I heard some concerns that the stifling of dust transactions would effect them.

DiB

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 0

Trying to install OT right now and ran into an int casting error. Think I might need to run it on a 64bit system is all. But I wanted to ask:

I keep seeing talk of colored coins which I had to research. I think I get the idea but as far as I can tell there is no working system for them yet. Just proof of concept. Would OT be able to issue these or would it only be tied to the exchange network the coin was colored on? Or is the dream to have an exchange tie in?

I like the possibilities this offers to devs and start-ups and hope to see a functional OT server pool soon.

lunarboy

hero member

Activity: 544

Merit: 500

Quote from: fellowtraveler on May 30, 2013, 04:59:33 AM

You might ask, why not use Namecoin instead of Bitcoin, for storing these credential hashes? The answer is because Namecoin names expire, since they must be human-readable. In my case, I don't need human-readable -- just unique. Therefore, I prefer to use a system which does not expire. (Namecoin is still very useful as a DNS replacement, however.)

So my ultimate answer is, I plan to use Bitcoin itself to replace the Certificate Authority.

Just playing devils advocate slightly, but it would seem the coloured coins idea would work equally well within the Namecoin protocol. The coins themselves do not expire, so could be used as you suggest. The added bonus here, being, each issuer could have their own public/private uncensorable DNS identity cryptographically tied into their set of coloured coins.

Their DNS identity could then act as the entry point for all information about the company/stock/commodity or even as a trading platform. The problem with names expiring is negligible as they will expire after a fixed period (36000 blocks [ DO NOT POST SESC LINKS ] i'm informed[/url]) and could be set up to automatically renew before this period if the company/stock is still currently trading.

Thoughts?

mmeijeri

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Martijn Meijering

Very interesting stuff, it's going to take some time to digest all of this.

fellowtraveler

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Quote from: mmeijeri on May 31, 2013, 04:24:05 AM

So what information does the recovery request contain,

"Help! Server Sam has disappeared! I need to get my coins out of the pool! Acct ID. Nym ID. Signature."

Quote from: mmeijeri on May 31, 2013, 04:24:05 AM

what information do the pool members have to verify the situation?

They have access to the audit data. See the auditing link posted above.

mmeijeri

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Martijn Meijering

Quote from: fellowtraveler on May 31, 2013, 04:21:14 AM

Well for example, let's say the server disappears entirely...

The user sends a recovery request to the other pool members, who verify the situation and then vote to recover your coins.

So what information does the recovery request contain, and what information do the pool members have to verify the situation?

Topic: The Holy Grail! I wish I could kiss the author of Bitmessage on his face. - page 5. (Read 92719 times)