Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 11. (Read 33783 times)

That's my understanding, too, so my answer would be yes.

Yes, exactly. But there are other risks when Node_1 goes offline, due to which the funds may be lost / stolen.
Node_2 could publish an older commitment, for example (not the case here, I know).

Makes sense. Have you tried setting up a new node (maybe on testnet) and doing a backup creation / restore? If that works you may feel safer in the future.

Other things to try...
Have you tried to generate seed words from hsm_secret and restore those in Electrum?

What's odd to me is that mempool.space labels your actual force close transaction (if I understand correctly) just as a 'Multisig 2 of 2':
https://mempool.space/tx/137c7c044bd4027cde671187a1f38821a4509250b35693f3e3faa965253eb30f

Meanwhile, the address of Node_2 also got a second transaction labeled as 'Lightning Force Close' (1 input, 1 output) and Node_1's address still sits there with all its funds, so it lacks a similar transaction.
https://mempool.space/address/bc1qz9354tux3tzllhr2r3phktp65ghugl3sh09wjvtdl882rdf346gsgnfjxv
https://mempool.space/address/bc1qk82d4lc0fq8sy30804gwzx7qc8njydthcqp535

I would have expxected a 'Lightning Force Close' transaction to have 1 (Multisig) input and 2 outputs.

While you and I both know how a force close works in theory, I haven't found an actual flow graph or similar, that would definitely help explain the current situation (only one of the 2 nodes got the 'Lightning Force Close' transaction, basically).

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I just discovered the guesstoremote method in lightning-hsmtool. Not sure why it's even required to brute force anything, but worth a try, I guess.
dumponchaindescriptors should also give you a bunch of addresses derived from your hsm_secret, so you could match and see if https://mempool.space/address/bc1qk82d4lc0fq8sy30804gwzx7qc8njydthcqp535 is one of them.

(Regarding my 150,000 lost sats)

Does an hsm_secret recover non-cooperatively closed channel's funds? As far as I understand, hsm_secret is some sort of seed for the internal on-chain wallet. However, I don't know if it can be used to recover funds with this sort of events:

• Node_1 opened a 300,000 worth of sats channel with Node_2.
• Node_1 sent 150,000 sats to Node_2.
• Node_1 goes offline.
• Node_2 cancels the channel non-cooperatively.
• Can Node_1 recover the bitcoin with hsm_secret?

It's not the $30, but the fact that I lost bitcoin while I'm acting very cautiously drives me crazy.

They don't want to be found and used that easily. You should run your own instance... a wild guess.

Yes. Yes, about that. 

Ugh. Come on. Who's responsible for the SEO? That thing should be on top for "lightning network visualization".

How about https://github.com/MaxKotlan/LN-Visualizer and working website to test it at lnvisualizer.com?

Interesting! I've never seen something like that myself in general (not for internet servers, either). But it sounds cool. I'm not skilled in web development myself, but would love playing around with such a webpage if it ever comes into existence.

Hey - to all the bored web devs - here's a free $1M idea for you!

Haven't seen the new mempool.space Lightning software. Smooth! I was thinking of something more user-friendly, less-buggy, not that slow, with no world map, with Tor nodes included, and in 3D. Nodes can be represented as spheres, their sphere size accordingly to their capacity, and user can search the network in a player versus player camera style.

All that's needed is a good parse of lightning-cli listchannels.

Kind of something like this?

I wouldn't name such person "the average user". More like "newbie" or "in just for the money". A bitcoin user does self-custody; I hope we can all agree to this. Therefore, a person who's registered at an exchange that owns bitcoin for him, isn't a bitcoin user, but an exchange user.

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Hey guys, I thought of an idea, and I just want you to tell me your opinions: Lightning Network 3D overview (similar to internet-map, but in 3D). As far as I've searched, I haven't found anything other than this: https://explorer.acinq.co/, but that's not smoothly running enough.

I was mainly thinking about businesses who run a LN node. Who's hosting their online services in-house nowadays?
Most consumers on the other hand won't use cloud servers, but most consumers also don't keep their computers on 24/7.

That doesn't apply to the average user, who's totally fine with keeping their funds on an exchange.

This really depends on who is running a LN node. If a business is running the node, it would probably be better for it to be done in the cloud, but as an individual, in many cases, it would be better for someone to run it at home on a dedicated computer (to minimize the risk of malware). I suspect that there are more LN nodes run by businesses than by individuals.

But you certainly have much more control than using computer from someone else.
I can understand some people are using cloud services for all kind of data that is not sensitive, but if you use it for private confidential stuff you can end up like Hunter Biden...with all your dirty stuff going online.
If we want something to be decentralized we can't expect big brother to do a good job hosting our nodes, and in few months they will probably start to have problems with electricity.

Internet was always centralized, but there was much more freedom than now.
Things are getting worse for sure, and I am expecting to see Ministry of Truth coming soon with digital identity, so I am not sure if we are going to be able to talk like this in next few years, without some special permission.  

Depending on where you live or which ISP do you use, you could face one of these.
1. Expensive pricing due to lack of competition on your area.
2. Ridiculous FUP/Fair Usage Limit. Few years ago, my ISP imposed limit less than 200GB/month before the connection slowed down.
3. Unstable/slow connection either because your ISP still use old DSL or copper cable.


Also happened in Russia[1] and still happening in China. Although an NGO managed to reverse the ban on Russia[2].

[1] https://blog.torproject.org/tor-censorship-in-russia/
[2] https://roskomsvoboda.org/post/google-v-dele-tor/

The only way to forbid the network's use altogether that comes to mind is to re-shape the entire TCP/IP. Simple solution: Block all IP addresses except x, y, z etc. Have they ever done this before? If no, it's possible to use Tor with bridges as you said.

What I know is true is that you might have to take permission from your ISP provider to run an exit node:

I know that a few people aren't able to access the Tor Browser webpage: https://tor.stackexchange.com/questions/78/my-isp-network-government-has-blocked-access-to-the-torproject-website-how-can
The next logical step would be prohibiting the network's use altogether, although I'm not sure about precedents, either.

Anyhow, as it's technically possible, I do think it's worth planning ahead and coming up with solutions before something like that starts to become commonplace.

With speed I referred to the CPU, not internet speed, even though you can download blocks faster on a cloud than on a Pi. Either way, indexing is faster on cloud.

I have never witnessed a case wherein somebody was prohibited to using Tor from his ISP provider. Maybe it can happen on a place like North Korea, but not in the EU or the USA.

When talking about ISP, it's not about speed, but rather that they can censor traffic similarly to a VPS provider.
Tor is a solution, but ISPs can also censor Tor traffic in general (and there are precedents for that).

Bridges can solve the problem: https://security.stackexchange.com/a/107510/234917

Truth be told: the internet is getting much more centralized and controlled, and less free, as time goes by.
There are discussions on Bitcointalk [1] and elsewhere about ideas how to create a new network, independent from the internet.

[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/first-bitcoin-then-blockstream-satellite-how-about-we-go-fully-decentralized-5365021

Isn't ideal, in which manner? Sure, anything you do in the cloud is run much faster than in a Raspberry Pi at home, but the home device grants you privacy. I would never host sensitive content on a cloud service, regardless of which company hosted it; and when I say sensitive I mean two things: Money and private stuff, which is how I'd characterize my Lightning transactions.

I don't understand why you mentioned the local ISP. I, and most people, run Bitcoin & Lightning nodes through Tor.

There isn't really an alternative, right? Almost everything is "in the cloud" nowadays, and a few large companies rule the cloud market. Moving back to running nodes at home, through your own local ISP, isn't ideal either.