This looks pretty nice but I think it needs to go a bit deeper in the details. I assume it will happen wen you have the other parts ready to share. This is a nice way of putting this so that they can be amost palpable and easily understood. These concepts sometimes get pretty complex to understand with little knowledge at the protocol level.
I would like to see more and also about multi-part payments, for instance. These concepts are still not standard as they need to be implemented by at least 3 implementations, iirc!
Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 6. (Read 32058 times)
how splicing works in the lightning network and what its good for can be seen visually here 
further steps/explanations follow...
further steps/explanations follow...
a long-awaited feature called route blinding was added to the lightning specification BOLT-4 (Basis of Lightning Technology) yesterday. leading the effort was lighting developer Bastien Teinturier.
its now only a matter of time until first lightning implementations will offer the new routing feature.
https://twitter.com/realtbast/status/1640606307924291585
https://github.com/lightning/bolts/pull/765
its now only a matter of time until first lightning implementations will offer the new routing feature.
https://twitter.com/realtbast/status/1640606307924291585
https://github.com/lightning/bolts/pull/765
Actually, @n0nce, the max value seems to be the channel capacity - channel reserve.
I just made a test in my Core Lightning and tried to set htlmax to a value bigger than the channel capacity and I got a warning message of not being possible to set that value because it was too big and the value that was set automatically was the one I mentioned -> channel capacity - channel reserve!
I just made a test in my Core Lightning and tried to set htlmax to a value bigger than the channel capacity and I got a warning message of not being possible to set that value because it was too big and the value that was set automatically was the one I mentioned -> channel capacity - channel reserve!
One other question.
Was your first question sufficiently answered / cleared up? Not sure because of your edits.Yes, about distinguishing channel_reserve and dust_limit.
Thanks
Anyone knows what value to set to htlcmax to make it "default"? Would it be the total capacity of the channel or maybe only the outgoing capacity?
According to the docs [1], by default there is 'no effective limit' except the channel capacity.Yes, I was reading there too but the thing is that if it is logical to have htlcmax greater than the lowest value of incoming/outgoing capacity instead of the channel total capacity? Like, let's sat in a "M sats channel, we have it at 50/50. What is the point of htlcmax be 2M sats (total channel capacity) if we can only handle 1M sats payments because the channel is balanced at 50/50?
So if you want to set it to 'default', simply enter something like 1000BTC (in satoshis); Lightning should just replace that value with your channel capacity and throw that warning. You could also check your channel capacity and set it to that value.
[1] https://lightning.readthedocs.io/lightning-setchannel.7.html?highlight=htlcmax
warning_htlcmax_too_high: The requested htlcmax was greater than the channel capacity, so we set it to the channel capacity
[1] https://lightning.readthedocs.io/lightning-setchannel.7.html?highlight=htlcmax
Ok, that I didn't know. About the software set it to the channel capacity if the value we set is not suitable!
One other question.
Was your first question sufficiently answered / cleared up? Not sure because of your edits.Anyone knows what value to set to htlcmax to make it "default"? Would it be the total capacity of the channel or maybe only the outgoing capacity?
According to the docs [1], by default there is 'no effective limit' except the channel capacity.So if you want to set it to 'default', simply enter something like 1000BTC (in satoshis); Lightning should just replace that value with your channel capacity and throw that warning. You could also check your channel capacity and set it to that value.
warning_htlcmax_too_high: The requested htlcmax was greater than the channel capacity, so we set it to the channel capacity
[1] https://lightning.readthedocs.io/lightning-setchannel.7.html?highlight=htlcmax
One other question.
A couple of weeks ago I tried to play a little with htlcmax and htlcmin of my Core Lightning node because I was told that setting lower htlcmax could help nodes keeping more balance over more time in one of the sides of the cahnnel and avoid to rebalance so often. So, I changed some of these values but now I wanted to set them back to the defaults!
Anyone knows what value to set to htlcmax to make it "default"? Would it be the total capacity of the channel or maybe only the outgoing capacity?
A couple of weeks ago I tried to play a little with htlcmax and htlcmin of my Core Lightning node because I was told that setting lower htlcmax could help nodes keeping more balance over more time in one of the sides of the cahnnel and avoid to rebalance so often. So, I changed some of these values but now I wanted to set them back to the defaults!
Anyone knows what value to set to htlcmax to make it "default"? Would it be the total capacity of the channel or maybe only the outgoing capacity?
[...]
What you describe is called channel reserve. It's the reserve both partners agree to keep as long as the channel will last. It exists to insure disincentive. If you're forced to keep 1% of your channel (for example) you will never publish an older state, even if you only have that one reserve on your side, because you'll lose it. If there was no such reserve, you'd have nothing to discourage you from publishing an older state if you had no receiving capacity, because you'd have nothing to lose. I have not ever come across with the term "dust limit" on lightning, but I believe it has to do with the prevention of unimportant transactions (e.g, 1 sat). It only exists on-chain as far as I'm concerned.
Hum, ok. I think I understand the channel reserve.
And I've been reading through Bitcoin mailing list and dust limit seems to be only related to on-chain transactions and to avoid spammy/empty UTXOs into blocks. But if you, in Core Lightning, run lightning-cli listpeers
BTW, the only thing really useful that I found about dust limit was this: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-August/019310.html
Edited;
And following my other post, can we forward payments of a value lower than the channel_reserve? Because I remember when I started with LN, of a problem (not sure if it was opening/closing a channel or forwarding payments) that was related to a bug with the dust limit calculation in Core Lightning!
Edited 1;
The issue was with opening a channel back in 2020. I found the issue that I discovered (I think by accident) back then and fixed by niftynei:
https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/issues/4140
[...]
What you describe is called channel reserve. It's the reserve both partners agree to keep as long as the channel will last. It exists to insure disincentive. If you're forced to keep 1% of your channel (for example) you will never publish an older state, even if you only have that one reserve on your side, because you'll lose it. If there was no such reserve, you'd have nothing to discourage you from publishing an older state if you had no receiving capacity, because you'd have nothing to lose. I have not ever come across with the term "dust limit" on lightning, but I believe it has to do with the prevention of unimportant transactions (e.g, 1 sat). It only exists on-chain as far as I'm concerned.
Hi.
I have a couple of questions about some of the terminology used in LN. Namelly in Core Lightning implementation.
When channels are created, there is a small percentage of the channel capacity that is "locked" (is this the correct terminology???) that is called channel reserve, yes? Or is it the dust limit?
I would like someone to clear my mind about these 2 terminologies and give me a light explanation about the 2 of them! What each one is used for, how they are used and when they are useful, etc!
Thanks
I have a couple of questions about some of the terminology used in LN. Namelly in Core Lightning implementation.
When channels are created, there is a small percentage of the channel capacity that is "locked" (is this the correct terminology???) that is called channel reserve, yes? Or is it the dust limit?
I would like someone to clear my mind about these 2 terminologies and give me a light explanation about the 2 of them! What each one is used for, how they are used and when they are useful, etc!
Thanks
here is the official tweet of the rtl app (a web-ui for your lnd/c-lightning/eclair node/s) with the announcement of a new update which can be downloaded at the following link: https://github.com/Ride-The-Lightning/c-lightning-REST/releases/tag/v0.10.2
https://twitter.com/RTL_App/status/1635064065105215488
Seems like just a c-lightning-REST update (no update to the UI, just the underlying API). I'll update my stuff later today, nonetheless.https://twitter.com/RTL_App/status/1635064065105215488
did the new CLN/c-lightning release come out yet?
v23.02.2 was released '13 hours ago'.
did the new CLN/c-lightning release come out yet?
here is the official tweet of the rtl app (a web-ui for your lnd/c-lightning/eclair node/s) with the announcement of a new update which can be downloaded at the following link: https://github.com/Ride-The-Lightning/c-lightning-REST/releases/tag/v0.10.2
https://twitter.com/RTL_App/status/1635064065105215488
https://twitter.com/RTL_App/status/1635064065105215488
Breez released their first Lightning SDK:
Lightning for Everyone in Any App: Lightning as a Service via the Breez SDK
With these high level instruments developer can concentrate on their product without having to understand the LN protocol in its finest details.
I guess this and the Strike API release will turbo charge the deveopment of new powerful tools to improve the LN UX!
Lightning for Everyone in Any App: Lightning as a Service via the Breez SDK
Quote
The open-source Breez SDK enables developers to integrate Lightning and bitcoin payments into their apps with zero learning curve or technical expertise. It’s an end-to-end, non-custodial, drop-in solution powered by Greenlight, including a built-in LSP, on-chain interoperability, fiat on-ramps, and other services users and operators need.
With these high level instruments developer can concentrate on their product without having to understand the LN protocol in its finest details.
I guess this and the Strike API release will turbo charge the deveopment of new powerful tools to improve the LN UX!
Is it in closed beta? Because it sure looks like it.
Anyway it looks like something that can be integrated into mobile apps (not sure what the other two categories of SDK are for, but at least one of them says "Design Partner" which tells me is for people who want to improve the SDK) but it's not entirely clear how you'd insert this SDK into a desktop app or a web app.
Breez released their first Lightning SDK:
Lightning for Everyone in Any App: Lightning as a Service via the Breez SDK
With these high level instruments developer can concentrate on their product without having to understand the LN protocol in its finest details.
I guess this and the Strike API release will turbo charge the deveopment of new powerful tools to improve the LN UX!
Lightning for Everyone in Any App: Lightning as a Service via the Breez SDK
Quote
The open-source Breez SDK enables developers to integrate Lightning and bitcoin payments into their apps with zero learning curve or technical expertise. It’s an end-to-end, non-custodial, drop-in solution powered by Greenlight, including a built-in LSP, on-chain interoperability, fiat on-ramps, and other services users and operators need.
With these high level instruments developer can concentrate on their product without having to understand the LN protocol in its finest details.
I guess this and the Strike API release will turbo charge the deveopment of new powerful tools to improve the LN UX!
Hi peeps
I have updated my Lightning Node to CLN v22.11.1 and now I have 4 of my channels offline.
[...]
Just updated and checked my channels; everything's there. Have you tried just rebooting once after the update?I have updated my Lightning Node to CLN v22.11.1 and now I have 4 of my channels offline.
[...]
I had an issue that was solved by forcing a database upgrade, but that should be unrelated.
Yes, I did both of that.
I learned that there is an issue with experimental-dual-fund option. I disabled it and I only have 1 channel offline now.
This issue is in github.
While updating Core LN, I noticed that my full node install guide is quite outdated by now; I will update it to the latest version of everything probably towards the weekend.
Hi peeps
I have updated my Lightning Node to CLN v22.11.1 and now I have 4 of my channels offline.
[...]
Just updated and checked my channels; everything's there. Have you tried just rebooting once after the update?I have updated my Lightning Node to CLN v22.11.1 and now I have 4 of my channels offline.
[...]
I had an issue that was solved by forcing a database upgrade, but that should be unrelated.
Yes, I did both of that.
I learned that there is an issue with experimental-dual-fund option. I disabled it and I only have 1 channel offline now.
This issue is in github.
Hi peeps
I have updated my Lightning Node to CLN v22.11.1 and now I have 4 of my channels offline.
[...]
Just updated and checked my channels; everything's there. Have you tried just rebooting once after the update?I have updated my Lightning Node to CLN v22.11.1 and now I have 4 of my channels offline.
[...]
I had an issue that was solved by forcing a database upgrade, but that should be unrelated.
Hi peeps
I have updated my Lightning Node to CLN v22.11.1 and now I have 4 of my channels offline. However I can connect to their respective peers.
I'm only beind Tor, no cleanet. But this only happened after I updated to v22.11.1. Anyone experiencing anything similar?
Edited;
In one of the cases which is with @_Rath node, I can see this:
No idea why it says [teletype]peer_disconnect_done[/teletype].
Then the reconnection is attempted a bit later with the same messages and this new one somewhere in between:
I have updated my Lightning Node to CLN v22.11.1 and now I have 4 of my channels offline. However I can connect to their respective peers.
I'm only beind Tor, no cleanet. But this only happened after I updated to v22.11.1. Anyone experiencing anything similar?
Edited;
In one of the cases which is with @_Rath node, I can see this:
Code:
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: Connect OUT
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: peer_out WIRE_INIT
...
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: peer_in WIRE_INIT
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-chan#73: Peer transient failure in CHANNELD_NORMAL: Disconnected
...
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-gossipd: seeker: chosen as startup peer
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: Handed peer, entering loop
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-gossipd: seeker: starting gossip
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: peer_in WIRE_WARNING
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: Received WIRE_WARNING: warning: Feature 28 requires feature 20
connectd: drain_peer
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-lightningd: peer_disconnect_done
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: peer_out WIRE_INIT
...
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: peer_in WIRE_INIT
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-chan#73: Peer transient failure in CHANNELD_NORMAL: Disconnected
...
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-gossipd: seeker: chosen as startup peer
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: Handed peer, entering loop
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-gossipd: seeker: starting gossip
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: peer_in WIRE_WARNING
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-connectd: Received WIRE_WARNING: warning: Feature 28 requires feature 20
connectd: drain_peer
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-lightningd: peer_disconnect_done
No idea why it says [teletype]peer_disconnect_done[/teletype].
Then the reconnection is attempted a bit later with the same messages and this new one somewhere in between:
Code:
0273da0a525390c36857841e208f1d289275c76ebfa7ecfde697c6cbf4f235b4f5-chan#73: Peer transient failure in CHANNELD_NORMAL: Disconnected
Any hints? Have you guys heard of artisats.com? Seems a cool idea but still a lot can be improved.
Nope. Just tried it out though and whole-heartedly agree. 
It's a nice idea and I believe something like this exists in fiat-land already, but it would be great to be able to quickly commission profile pictures or similar, for sats over Lightning.Sadly as of now, it seems to be a bit buggy. Let's check back on it in a few months.
Yeah, and UX is not yet very user-friendly. I struggled a bit to unerstand what to do and where to do. I sent 1000 sats there and tried to make some offers and asks, but as of now, I still didn't get any sats from those initial tasks.
Let's see if the site UX improves and bugs and etc!
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