Topic: The Real Reason to Hold Gold And Bitcoin - page 36. (Read 674548 times)
The gold currency was implemented so that the people held actual gold, instead of a scam currency. Bitcoin and gold are not competitors. They are complementary assets. Its better to hold both than it is to hold one.
Gold and bitcoin are two excellent investment tools right now. Gold is in great demand by everyone. Gold is the most expensive metal among the others. The price is very stable stable. So is bitcoin today many people who want to invest using bitcoin because it is very high price. So if we invest in these two types I think this is the right decision. Other than that there is another one that has a good investment value. Namely the current proferti people are also many who invest in proferti because the selling price continues to increase. I think if we have a strong capital it is very profitable
Also, at the moment just to put this into perspective, Bitcoin has a market cap of 46 billion USD. QE3 was printing 80 billion USD / month. So at the moment, the fiat system could easily swallow up the market (obviously if they did this, the price would rise significantly, but you get the point). When you have the ability to create as much USD as you want, you can potentially purchase significant portions of cryptocurrencies.
Just in case we forget, the ability of the dollar system to swallow up the Bitcoin market easily is *very good* for Bitcoin.
If the elites are determined to buy a certain quantity of Bitcoin, at whatever price, sure they can easily print the money to do it, but they will run into more and more resistant sellers, and the price will keep going up until they stop. Also you have to think why they want to buy. One possibility IMO is to relieve the price pressure on gold and do it on the cheap. Another is to have one more potential future anchor of their money.
What you don't want happen is the elites ignoring Bitcoin, but that is probably not going to happen, since Bitcoin presents them with so many benefits at this price level.
The bottom line is, no matter how you look at it, the small size of Bitcoin's market cap is a good thing for itself.
Both are very profitable in terms of investing. Gold or bitcoin have the same good chance to get huge profit. Because bitcoin and gold are in great demand by all walks of life. Let alone bitcoin prices today is very high. Maybe all that bitcoin investing already feel it. And make a huge profit
Yeah I agree to you that gold and the bitcoin is very profitable. If we will invest our money to the bitcoin and to the gold for sure we will have a food profit. Long term investment is very effective to earn big profit. Furthermore, these non-state-issued asset will always growing over time, its value increase because people believe and invest on it, high demand mean higher price
A good part of why non-state assets will rise is that the centuries-old systems of the elites suppressing gold and silver prices have run their course, and totally failed by 1971. (That is, the gold and silver standards that kept their values more-or-less constant in national currency terms, at least for the dominant imperial currencies.)
So what we have is a continuous devaluation of state currencies against non-state assets. (The dollar has lost 97% of its value against gold since 1971.) Devaluation (ie allowing gold to go up, etc.) helps to maintain financial stability, and since the system has built-in incentives for the elites to destabilize the financial markets, devaluations will always be needed from time to time, over the long run.
Bitcoin and gold are the best investments in the modern world. You need to use both options to avoid losing money and making more profit.
well if you are thinking for a long term investment this two assets are the best to hold as the value will possible to keep rising and rising from time to time, there's some fluctuations and downfall but for sure the value will survive and its bring big fortune in returned.I agree with you here completely.
Gold is probably still going to be considered one of the best store of values for decades/centuries to come. Maybe even millenniums. And through all these years, its value is going to be essentially not fluctuating at all - it'll pretty much remain constant.
With bitcoin though, i'd expect in a few decades time when it really gets picked up by the world as a true alternative to dollars and pounds, trade volume will explode and so will the price. BTC basically's got everything that gold's got, except even more convenient and divisible.
Quiet (for now) confiscation of almost everyone's assets is well underway (actually it probably has been for generations).
Yes, there's always confiscatory inflation, and the only question is how much. And it's usually understated by the usual-suspect voices. But inflation comes in different pieces, and I might have to kick my aging brain into action to study those. We clearly have much more inflation in some things than others.
Keynes (yes, the man himself) lost a fortune betting on Germany between the wars. I can only suppose that even he didn't get that Germany was on the receiving end of imperial suffering, during that period. (Why the Nazis eventually took power.) I tend to think of non-monetary commodities in a similar way, being at the bottom rung of the imperial ladder.
Non-state monies were price-capped by the elites for almost 500 years before 1971. IMO they can easily be price-capped again for a few more centuries -- since that is the proven formula for their sought-after stability. We could be living in a unique window just after they lost control of version 1 of their system. Non-state monies are thus a good bet, but still you have to be careful of the bet size.
Too bad, there are just no real ways to win this game, by design. Though if you work hard, bet prudently, save money, and make right-sized, good, opportunistic bets, you should end up more or less OK.
Both are very promising to be used as an investment, but the price movement of gold is slower than bitcoin because the demand for bitcoin market prices often change compared to gold can even be calculated every minute while the price of the market is very slow as fast as bitcoin. But by holding gold and bitcoin for a long time it will become more precious that is most importantly patient until waiting for a high price increase.
Not only is the demand, but also the controlled supply in the case of gold for example, most of the production goes to be part of the treasure reserve of some countries, leaving few amounts to the current market coupled at where investors seek to resort to a value of refuge par excellence, creates a prolonged shortage that raises prices dramatically and continuously. The real reason is that they have limited supply, and people want them. (people may not want bitcoin in the future btw) People always want gold and they want to gather as much as possible in their lifetime. It is the only solid asset which holds its true value through the centuries.
Don't know. Maybe it's like that in your country, but here in Serbia nobody persecute this target, not me, not my family - we are all cold to investing in gold. Maybe the reason is that we don't have free money after all costs paid, but I am investing in crypto currencies by little. This way doesn't ask me to go outside in a bank and buy a gold there or something alike, I just buy coins on the net and keep it.The real reason is that they have limited supply, and people want them. (people may not want bitcoin in the future btw) People always want gold and they want to gather as much as possible in their lifetime. It is the only solid asset which holds its true value through the centuries.
Don't know. Maybe it's like that in your country, but here in Serbia nobody persecute this target, not me, not my family - we are all cold to investing in gold. Maybe the reason is that we don't have free money after all costs paid, but I am investing in crypto currencies by little. This way doesn't ask me to go outside in a bank and buy a gold there or something alike, I just buy coins on the net and keep it. 
Both are very promising to be used as an investment, but the price movement of gold is slower than bitcoin because the demand for bitcoin market prices often change compared to gold can even be calculated every minute while the price of the market is very slow as fast as bitcoin. But by holding gold and bitcoin for a long time it will become more precious that is most importantly patient until waiting for a high price increase.
The price of bitcoin is going very high because the adoption rate in bitcoin is much more than Gold. So having bitcoin is the best way to make good returns in quick times. If about gold then the price of gold is increasing but not that much as bitcoin price increasing. Holding Gold is a bad idea imho. So, we should invest in bitcoin to get more income in near future. 
Both are very promising to be used as an investment, but the price movement of gold is slower than bitcoin because the demand for bitcoin market prices often change compared to gold can even be calculated every minute while the price of the market is very slow as fast as bitcoin. But by holding gold and bitcoin for a long time it will become more precious that is most importantly patient until waiting for a high price increase.
but I thnk we cannot hold gold in a big amount because there will be always the security problem, we will need to take care of the hold we have because it will be more easy for a person to steal the gold if you are keeping it in your home. because you cannot give full security to your house for all time, wile investment in bitcoin can be more secure and if you want to keep it for a long time even then your bitcoin will be more secure in your wallet, if you will not give the security key to anyone. 
BobK71, you wrote:
"My thinking is that, from here on, the major developments will be political."
Yes, that's why I'm here, and "three gets you five" you're here at bitcointalk for similar reasons. Quiet (for now) confiscation of almost everyone's assets is well underway (actually it probably has been for generations).
Gold and Bitcoin sums it up nicely. I can certainly see Pt and other cryptos as smaller holdings, just for diversification. Platinum, for example, will likely do very well of the future shows strong economic growth ("Pt is for optimists"). Hey, things might just work out OK...
But if they don't work out OK, then Ag and Pb become assets to look at (the latter more helpful if you also have one or more Pb projection devices...).
And if you're REALLY WORRIED, food & water production is something worth a look (though I am too old and lazy to take a shot at farming, etc.).
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Your "quantitative" abuse of trust is of more interest to me in this conversation. Yep, inflation is perhaps the prime example, in that most times both governments and their Central Bankers both benefit quietly while most others pay the hidden "inflation tax". Exchange rate manipulations, gold price manipulations and other similar tricks by TPTB also fall into this camp of trust abuse. Manipulations of interest rates certainly count too (but that is a fiendishly difficult topic to write about for me), yet is largely ignored -- more quiet abuse.
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Your "quantitative" abuse of trust is of more interest to me in this conversation. Yep, inflation is perhaps the prime example, in that most times both governments and their Central Bankers both benefit quietly while most others pay the hidden "inflation tax". Exchange rate manipulations, gold price manipulations and other similar tricks by TPTB also fall into this camp of trust abuse. Manipulations of interest rates certainly count too (but that is a fiendishly difficult topic to write about for me), yet is largely ignored -- more quiet abuse.
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Yeah, that's pretty much true. Although at this stage of the asset inflation cycle, inflation, while still a confiscation of wealth, is not enough to sustain the charade. Almost no serious (mainstream or otherwise) commentator is saying we have enough growth and inflation to support the system on a long-term basis, since the 2008 crisis.
Rather, savers are content to lose a little to inflation but keep their wealth stashed in safety, rather than invest or spend enough. This is running against the system's basic design, and asset values, prices, demand and (God forbid) employment are always threatening to implode.
So the elites can still play around the edges, but quantitative abuse of trust has basically run its course for this cycle. 'True salvation' at this point can only come from war or conflict. We're waiting for a new Hitler-type problem to allow America to save the world, while getting by in our own 1930s. For example, I have multiple credible sources for narratives like http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-27/how-america-armed-terrorists-syria
My thinking is that, from here on, the major developments will be political.
Both are very profitable in terms of investing. Gold or bitcoin have the same good chance to get huge profit. Because bitcoin and gold are in great demand by all walks of life. Let alone bitcoin prices today is very high. Maybe all that bitcoin investing already feel it. And make a huge profit
Both are very promising to be used as an investment, but the price movement of gold is slower than bitcoin because the demand for bitcoin market prices often change compared to gold can even be calculated every minute while the price of the market is very slow as fast as bitcoin. But by holding gold and bitcoin for a long time it will become more precious that is most importantly patient until waiting for a high price increase.
but I thnk we cannot hold gold in a big amount because there will be always the security problem, we will need to take care of the hold we have because it will be more easy for a person to steal the gold if you are keeping it in your home. because you cannot give full security to your house for all time, wile investment in bitcoin can be more secure and if you want to keep it for a long time even then your bitcoin will be more secure in your wallet, if you will not give the security key to anyone. 
Both are very promising to be used as an investment, but the price movement of gold is slower than bitcoin because the demand for bitcoin market prices often change compared to gold can even be calculated every minute while the price of the market is very slow as fast as bitcoin. But by holding gold and bitcoin for a long time it will become more precious that is most importantly patient until waiting for a high price increase.
but I thnk we cannot hold gold in a big amount because there will be always the security problem, we will need to take care of the hold we have because it will be more easy for a person to steal the gold if you are keeping it in your home. because you cannot give full security to your house for all time, wile investment in bitcoin can be more secure and if you want to keep it for a long time even then your bitcoin will be more secure in your wallet, if you will not give the security key to anyone. Both are very promising to be used as an investment, but the price movement of gold is slower than bitcoin because the demand for bitcoin market prices often change compared to gold can even be calculated every minute while the price of the market is very slow as fast as bitcoin. But by holding gold and bitcoin for a long time it will become more precious that is most importantly patient until waiting for a high price increase.
with security reason, gold is no rally too much secure, as its price is very much stable. so those people who are welling to save their money they should save their money in form of gold. but those people who want some investment, they should invest their money in bitcoin, although investment in bitcoin is a little risky but you have good opportunity to make money from investing in bitcoin. you can make good profit form investing in bitcoin.
Both are very promising to be used as an investment, but the price movement of gold is slower than bitcoin because the demand for bitcoin market prices often change compared to gold can even be calculated every minute while the price of the market is very slow as fast as bitcoin. But by holding gold and bitcoin for a long time it will become more precious that is most importantly patient until waiting for a high price increase.
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BobK71
Abuse of trust is a way of looking at what our governments (and almost all others as well) that I have never thought about before. Nice insight.
Any particular BLATANT abuse of trust (your "qualitative") that can be seen by almost everyone in its naked ugliness indeed will burn itself out pretty quickly, as people are cheated and word gets around. Robbery, thumb-on-the-scale, writing bad checks to your friends, etc. would be examples for me.
Your "quantitative" abuse of trust is of more interest to me in this conversation. Yep, inflation is perhaps the prime example, in that most times both governments and their Central Bankers both benefit quietly while most others pay the hidden "inflation tax". Exchange rate manipulations, gold price manipulations and other similar tricks by TPTB also fall into this camp of trust abuse. Manipulations of interest rates certainly count too (but that is a fiendishly difficult topic to write about for me), yet is largely ignored -- more quiet abuse.
I would also consider schemes to stop ObamaCare and stop the efforts to (presumably) positively change our bad tax system as other trust abuse. Perhaps also including .gov (and MSM) crime cover-ups to be trust abuse too, subtle, but seems to fall into your "quantitative" category. On the other hand these last two statements may reveal my own bias here...
BobK71
Abuse of trust is a way of looking at what our governments (and almost all others as well) that I have never thought about before. Nice insight.
Any particular BLATANT abuse of trust (your "qualitative") that can be seen by almost everyone in its naked ugliness indeed will burn itself out pretty quickly, as people are cheated and word gets around. Robbery, thumb-on-the-scale, writing bad checks to your friends, etc. would be examples for me.
Your "quantitative" abuse of trust is of more interest to me in this conversation. Yep, inflation is perhaps the prime example, in that most times both governments and their Central Bankers both benefit quietly while most others pay the hidden "inflation tax". Exchange rate manipulations, gold price manipulations and other similar tricks by TPTB also fall into this camp of trust abuse. Manipulations of interest rates certainly count too (but that is a fiendishly difficult topic to write about for me), yet is largely ignored -- more quiet abuse.
I would also consider schemes to stop ObamaCare and stop the efforts to (presumably) positively change our bad tax system as other trust abuse. Perhaps also including .gov (and MSM) crime cover-ups to be trust abuse too, subtle, but seems to fall into your "quantitative" category. On the other hand these last two statements may reveal my own bias here...
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