Topic: The Rock Trading Scam www.therocktrading.com Exchange Review fraud opinion - page 38. (Read 36160 times)

Mirae just posted the translation, he isn't endorsing this misleading "legal opinion". I know he also thinks they are scammers.

Thanks also for the continuous support of Jollygood and s1lverbox.

Anyone thinking they are scammers/liars, please give them negative feedback, to both Rock founders (thanks for r34tr783tr78 and Jollygood on eliale), since Paci by remaining silent isn't fulfilling his duties (so he is an accomplice) and he also wrote me the very suspicious email of 21 August 2018 (see OP).

eliale: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/eliale-35172
paci: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/paci-15648


Let's warn the community about them with permanent negative feedback.

They quote the Legislative Decree No. 231/2007 without making clear that they are doing so with the changes made by (the several times quoted by me) Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017.

And they invoke the correct article, article 3, n.º 5, i), which has the name "subjected entities" and defines who is subjected to it and its duties of KYC and AML, but they don't quote the article, misleading every one with a completely illegal interpretation.

It says:
"i prestatori di servizi relativi all'utilizzo di valuta virtuale, limitatamente allo svolgimento dell'attivita' di
conversione di valute virtuali da ovvero in valute aventi corso forzoso.".

Which means:
"service providers related to the use of virtual currency, limited to the performance of the activity of
conversion of virtual currencies from or into currencies with a forced course".

So, only the conversion of crypto into fiat is subjected to KYC and AML. It doesn't say trading or exchanging, but converting activities: that is, transferring the money from mere "I owe you" sitting on their balance to real fiat by withdrawing them to the banking system.

The decree used very carefully its words and the "limitatamente/limited" is there with the clear intention to restrict the duties of crypto exchanges in order to avoid interfering unnecessarily with technological development on this area.

If any act of trading crypto/fiat on their exchange were subjected to due diligence and KYC their TOS and FAQ would be illegal.

But they aren't illegal as is confirmed by the fact that their TOS and FAQ were approved by the italian authorities when they moved back from Malta to Italy this year.

It's because of this that their FAQ says:
“Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

And they are misleadingly invoking the 5th AML european directive that hasn't been yet adopted by Italy on its internal Law, so can't be applied to private persons.

This can't be legal ignorance. It's just legal bad practice. This just confirms that they paid for a misleading legal opinion.

Article 288 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (formerly Article 249 TEC):
    "A directive shall be binding, as to the result to be achieved, upon each Member State to which it is addressed, but shall leave to the national authorities the choice of form and methods."

I already completely debunked their TOS as a ground for what they are doing several times:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47649687

Anyone believes they are breaching their FAQ/TOS and italian law, raising doubts about my ownership that they know are lies and enduring the condemnation of several members of the community only to get 2 jpgs from me?

Thank you too because you have exposed yourself as opportunistic selective scammers that do not deserve any credit at all.

It gives me great pleasure to add your scam to my Scam Alert signature. Rock Trading scam will never get any benefit of any doubt from any users in this forum.

You stole from the OP and in order to keep hold of the stolen money you have made more excuses than there are by criminals in a Sherlock Holmes novel.

Shame on you.

Thanks @mirae and @eliale for this technical mumbo jumbo. I guess crypto in Italy is well regulated if you asking for kyc based only on balance of every user in your exchange? Are you doing kyc fully towards your all customer base or on random basis based on currency and balance they hold?

Last excuse was that OP had fiat sitting in his account ,which he never asked to withdraw. So my question stands: just holding fiat constitute to kyc in your exchange?
Because I dont believe crypto is really the reason for this kyc. And hiding behind kyc and AML only proves you stuck and don't know where to go with this. Unfortunately centralised services like this are real issue in crypto sphere. You wish to be recognized as tech /crypto place but using some first degree shit kyc and aml excuses to limit people from using their own assets. Or you wish to move away from those handcuffs of old days or you just hiding behind crypto to carry on like use to be with banks etc.
Your name of the service I believe is already damaged, and therefore u behaving this way. Because you know there is nothing more to loose.
That's my opinion. 

Thank you!!!!!

For the benefit of all users, the following is specified.

The Rock Trading has its registered office in Italy since 27/04/2018 and is therefore subject to the regulations of that country.

The operation of The Rock Trading is attributable to "service providers related to the use of virtual currency" (see Article 1, paragraph 2, Legislative Decree 231/2007 - AML Decree) and, in particular, to pursuant to art. 3, c. 5, lett. "I", of this decree, The Rock Trading is required to comply with the obligations to combat money laundering and terrorist financing, in the context of carrying out the activity of converting virtual currencies from or into currencies having a forced course.

In the relationship with users of the site, The Rock Trading is required to comply with the obligations of adequate customer verification declined in Title II of the AML Decree. In summary, these obligations are implemented through:

1) identification of the client, executor and actual holder;
2) verification of the client, executor and actual holder;
3) the acquisition and evaluation of information on the purpose and nature of the relationship;
4) constant monitoring of the relationship with the customer.

The application to service providers regarding the use of virtual currency for anti-money laundering obligations is an Italian peculiarity, which with the c.d. "V AML Directive" (Directive 843/2018) has however been extended to all Member States.

To operate in Italy, therefore, The Rock Trading has updated its terms and conditions (https://www.therocktrading.com/it/service_terms/3) the privacy policy (https://www.therocktrading.com/ it / service_terms / 4) and the anti-money laundering policy (https://www.therocktrading.com/it/service_terms/5) and all customers have been invited to review and accept the new conditions before continuing to operate.

In light of this, in accordance with the AML Decree and the contractual Terms and Conditions, The Rock Trading:

1) requires users to provide "the information and / or necessary documents that TRT considers to be, in its sole discretion, suitable to maintain compliance with any law, regulation and internal policy" (see Article 8, paragraph 1, Terms and conditions);
2) "in case of an anomalous or incomplete transparent operation of the user's account, TRT may ask the same user for further information, including but not limited to the authentication of documents, and may also freeze all transactions pending to carry out appropriate checks on the account "(see Article 8, paragraph 3, Terms and Conditions);
3) "reserves the right to block, suspend and close user accounts for which the proper verification has not been carried out, despite any useful efforts by TRT to contact the user and request completion of the due diligence process" (see Article 8, paragraph 4, Terms and Conditions).

The information requested by The Rock Trading is also specified in the FAQ (https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/index.php) stops the possibility, for the same, at its sole discretion, to request additional information to users.

The AML Decree and the Italian regulations governing the use of virtual currency service providers are constantly evolving, so the Rock Trading is not excluded from its operations in order to comply with legal obligations. Users, in any case, will be promptly informed of any changes to the terms and conditions of the contract.

With reference to the position of the applicant, who is invited to read carefully the foregoing, it is reiterated that:

1) The Rock Trading requires the information in accordance with the obligations imposed by the AML Decree;
2) the provision of information to The Rock Trading is a contractual obligation, pursuant to the terms and conditions accepted, as well as a legal obligation, pursuant to art. 22, c. 1, AML Decree; in fact, this provision specifies that "customers provide in writing, under their own responsibility, all the necessary and updated information to allow the obliged parties to fulfill the due diligence obligations";
3) The Rock Trading processes the data and information of the users of the site in compliance with the current legislation dictated by the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation - EU Regulation 679/2016), described in the privacy policy of the site (https: //www.therocktrading .com / en / service_terms / 4).

Beyond the foregoing, the blocking of the applicant's funds is aimed at protecting the account until there is no certainty of the identity of the person who operates it.

We are waiting from our law firm https://aclaw.eu/it/home/ the English versione but, in the meanwhile, I'm posting the Italian one:

A beneficio di tutti gli utenti si precisa quanto segue.

The Rock Trading ha sede in Italia da 27/04/2018 ed è dunque soggetta alla normativa di tale Paese.

L’operatività di The Rock Trading è riconducibile ai “prestatori di servizi relativi all'utilizzo di valuta virtuale” (cfr. art, 1, c. 2, D.lgs. 231/2007 - Decreto AML) e, in particolare, ai sensi dell’art. 3, c. 5, lett. “i”, di tale decreto, The Rock Trading è tenuta a rispettare gli obblighi di contrasto al riciclaggio di denaro e al finanziamento del terrorismo, nell’ambito dello svolgimento dell'attività di conversione di valute virtuali da ovvero in valute aventi corso forzoso.

Nella relazione con gli utenti del sito, The Rock Trading è tenuta a rispettare gli obblighi di adeguata verifica della clientela declinati al Titolo II del Decreto AML. In sintesi, tali adempimenti si attuano attraverso:

1)   l’identificazione del cliente, esecutore e titolare effettivo;
2)   la verifica del cliente, esecutore e titolare effettivo;
3)   l'acquisizione e la valutazione di informazioni sullo scopo e sulla natura del rapporto;
4)   il controllo costante del rapporto con il cliente.

L’applicazione ai prestatori di servizi relativi all’utilizzo di valuta virtuale degli obblighi antiriciclaggio è una peculiarità italiana, che con la c.d. “V Direttiva AML” (Direttiva 843/2018) è stata comunque estesa a tutti gli Stati membri.

Per operare in Italia, pertanto, The Rock Trading ha aggiornato i propri termini e condizioni contrattuali (https://www.therocktrading.com/it/service_terms/3) l’informativa privacy (https://www.therocktrading.com/it/service_terms/4) e la politica antiriciclaggio (https://www.therocktrading.com/it/service_terms/5) e tutti i clienti sono stati invitati a prendere visione ed a accettare le nuove condizioni prima di continuare ad operare.

Alla luce di ciò, in conformità al Decreto AML e ai Termini e Condizioni contrattuali, The Rock Trading:

1)   impone agli utenti di fornire “le informazioni e/o documenti necessari che TRT medesima ritenga, a propria esclusiva discrezione, idonei a mantenere la conformità a qualsiasi legge, regolamento e politica interna” (cfr. art. 8, c. 1, Termini e Condizioni);
2)   “in caso di un’operatività anomala o non completamente trasparente dell’account dell’utente, TRT potrà richiedere all’utente medesimo ulteriori informazioni, tra cui a titolo esemplificativo e non esaustivo l'autenticazione dei documenti, e potrà altresì congelare tutte le transazioni in attesa di effettuare le opportune verifiche dell’account” (cfr. art. 8, c. 3, Termini e Condizioni);
3)   “si riserva il diritto di bloccare, sospendere e chiudere gli account di utenti per i quali non sia stata espletata l’adeguata verifica, nonostante ogni sforzo utile di TRT per contattare l’utente e sollecitare il completamento del processo di adeguata verifica” (cfr. art. 8, c. 4, Termini e Condizioni).

Le informazioni richieste da The Rock Trading sono anche precisate nelle FAQ (https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/index.php) ferma la possibilità, per la stessa, a suo insindacabile giudizio, di richiedere informazioni aggiuntive agli utenti.

Il Decreto AML e la disciplina italiana dei prestatori di servizi relativi all'utilizzo di valuta virtuale è in continua evoluzione, quindi non si escludono modifiche da parte di The Rock Trading alla propria operatività al fine di rispettare gli obblighi di legge. Gli utenti, in ogni caso, saranno tempestivamente informati di ogni novità ai sensi dei Termini e Condizioni di contratto.

Con riferimento alla posizione del richiedente, che si invita a leggere attentamente quanto precede, si ribadisce che:

1)   The Rock Trading richiede le informazioni in ossequio agli adempimenti alla stessa imposti dal Decreto AML;
2)   il fornire informazioni a The Rock Trading è un obbligo contrattuale, ai sensi dei Termini e Condizioni accettate, nonché un obbligo di legge, ai sensi dell’art. 22, c. 1, Decreto AML; infatti, tale disposizione precisa che “i clienti forniscono per iscritto, sotto la propria responsabilità, tutte le informazioni necessarie e aggiornate per consentire ai soggetti obbligati di adempiere agli obblighi di adeguata verifica”;
3)   The Rock Trading tratta i dati e le informazioni degli utenti del sito nel rispetto della vigente normativa dettata dal GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation – Regolamento UE 679/2016), descritta nella informativa privacy del sito (https://www.therocktrading.com/it/service_terms/4).

Oltre quanto precede, il blocco dei fondi del richiedente è finalizzato a tutelare l’account fino a che non si avrà certezza dell’identità di colui che vi opera.

--------------------------------------------------------

TRT will no further make additional comments on this topic. All information will be handle it by our legal department.

Thank you

From what I see the Rock Trading are a bunch of scammers. They scammed the OP simply because he did not login for a long time.

They seem a greedy bunch of scammers that is all.

Did posted to Reddit. Also friend of mine looking in to the facts and genesis of the rock. Once he got all info he said he will
publish article about all links and people around it.

Stay sharp OP and don't let it go. Eventually something will happen.

If they think this is going away, they will discover that they are very wrong.

They already lost this public fight, but the real one hasn't even started. And will have much more daring consequences to them.

I told them that the consequences of this publicity would be on them. They decided to create this. They are the ones who are destroying the Rock by holding my money and saying that they are ready to keep it "forever" (cit).


I don't now if their bot trades with itself. But their volume would hardly pay for their costs.

A couple of sock-puppets yes but I have them on IGNORE as I cannot be bothered to read or reply to their trashy posts anymore.

As for their reputation, both the alt-accounts and of-course Rock Trading itself, it is in tatters. I doubt the figures they claim they trade daily are even true... this "exchange" is hardly a game changer.

I feel sorry for the OP as he will not have to take legal action against this Rock Trading scammers just to get back what it already his.

Thanks a lot for your support, s1lverbox. Maybe a negative feedback from you will make them see the light.

They already are on a fight with me and just got another personal one with r34tr783tr78, they won't dare to react to any negative feedback.

They don't seem to realize that their future and the future of the Rock is on the line. They are gambling with jail time, a heavy fine and a compulsory shutdown of the Rock.

Moreover, what they are doing is destroying the Rock.

They have a tiny trade volume, they have a trading bot on the Rock providing liquidity that most likely made them lose a lot on the crash of bitcoin and bitcoin price isn't going to improve on the next months. So, more customers are going away.

This mess will seal their destiny.

And if they only return the money forced by the authorities, this thread and all my other posts will stay online forever, as they are, driving away the few active customers that they have.

PS. There is no real new TOS, this is just another lie. Their TOS didn't change anything on verification. And their FAQ still says that "verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27

So whats the development? Looks like TheRock really trying hard to hide this scam attempt by uainf sockpuppets.

Not good , really not good.

Scammer eliale/medri your paidposter gave me more negative feedback. Thus enjoy my new signature.

Eliale keeps lying about their TOS and FAQ. I completely debunked with the help of my lawyer both as a ground to what they are doing.

When someone quotes a series of articles without relaying only on one, you know he doesn't know what he is saying or is just a bogus post to confuse.

The note he is selectively quoting again reads:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"
https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

This note says they can require additional information or documents. So, it applies to verified customers that already sent information/documents, not to unverified. It intends to apply to situations of expired or fake documents.

That is completely confirmed by the consequence of not complying with the request for additional documents: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly".

A consequence that only applies to customers that can do fiat withdrawals: verified customers. The note doesn't say they can block unverified accounts or demand verification.

And it couldn't ever say that without nullifying completely their FAQ clear statement: "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it."

I also debunked their chapter 8 on AML REQUIREMENTS


Rule 1 applies only during registration. I'm registered for more than 7 years.
Rule 2 describes the verification process: doesn't create any new ground to start one and also reports it self to the "as required by the registration process" or to update information on the documents sent.
Rule 3 and 6 depends on suspicious transactions or suspicions on the illegal origin of the founds. They haven't even tried to substantiate this. They know my money was earned there, trading for 7 years.
Rule 4: applies to Users who have not been properly verified. Not unverified users, but users who have not complete properly the verification process. Who sent fake documents or are suspected of money laundering. So, 8.4 talks about "completion of the due verification process". Completion not beginning of the verification process.
And the verification must be "due". It isn't due to unverified customers as your FAQ makes clear:

 Verification isn't mandatory. Since unverified customers can´t do fiat withdrawals they can't launder money. They enter with crypto and they leave with crypto, so they launder nothing."
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.45001851

They are breaching completely their TOS and FAQ and also Italian Law.

Why they are doing? They have 35519 reasons to do it.

He wrote a scammer don't invite the victim to go to the authorities? On the contrary, scammers are the ones who force victims to go to the authorities.

He thinks I have something to hide and he is betting I won't go to the authorities and he will be able to keep my money "forever". "Forever" was his expression: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47458158

He is also lying when he says the CTO Paci abused his authority when he wrote to me on 21 August 2018 saying I didn't have to send my documents to them. Paci would never wrote that without Eliale agreement. And he isn't just the CTO, he is also a founder and owner of the Rock.

I have been patient enough trying to get the exchange to see sense and to help find a suitable way out for both parties but the Rock Trading has been atrocious in their reasoning for keeping hold of the OPs crypto.

I have added them to my Scam Alert signature. It was long overdue but I wanted to wait until all avenues to help the OP get his funds back had been exhausted.

I also left appropriate negative Trust

Its simply silly approach by this exchange owners.
Its just showing how little willing to do to release funds which was not in question before "new" TOS showed up or been created. Beside what kind of excuse is : "user have fiat in account so KYC is needed"
I bet this so called exchange which i never heard about it simply trying screw this OP of his funds.

What exactly KYC will change in OP's situation? Because definatelly not gonna prove that he is who he say he is as this will be first KYC with him and therefore user is not known to exchange at all.

I would argue if Op done KYC at the beggining and now they asking again to do so - would make sense. But if he never done it it means anyone (friends/family ) can upload docs and selfie and sorted.
Is this exactly what you want Therock or maybe simply you already spent his funds and looking to delay this untuill he will drop this pursuit?

This has nothing to do with KYC and AML as you simply hiding behind it to hold his funds. Explanation that he has FIAT in his account is just silly if not stupid and you really looking for anything to delay him withdrawals of his crypto.

People keep bumping this up and make it clear this so called exchange will screw anyone with silly reasons and silly excuses.
Once they loose non existent volume this will maybe teach them lesson to not change terms as they wish midterm.

OP, you can always upload details of family member or friend and they will not know if thats really you or not.

It really seems that the only thing the "The Rock Trading" representative is doing right now is just adding salt to the wound and have no intention to actually help or resolve the situation

Going to the authorities is the only thing left tbh

@eliale
I do not understand why you have taken a very negative stance on this. No matter what you say KYC is not mandatory for this situation. You are obviously making life difficult for the OP. This conduct has been picked up by several people in the forum too.

You stated above "per our sole discretion we can require additional information or documents despite the status" shows you have ulterior motives and that any of your customers could be next.

I had never heard of Rock Trading before I saw the OP and can never recommend it to anybody after seeing what you have done to the OP. If anything, this situation will bring you negative PR and since you are not exactly a well known exchange doing daily volumes at the rates of Binance or Bittrex even though you say you have been in existence since 2011 you have let others come along and leave your exchange behind. The bad press and bad PR will be very detrimental for your cause.




@Coinfan
It has been pointed out to the Rock Trading that they do not require KYC in this instance but they are continuing to make life difficult for you.

To me this is a case of selective scamming. They had plenty of opportunities to clear this up and release your crypto but they have declined to assist and it seems they are holding a grudge against you for informing all of us of the situation.

I suggest you follow the legal channels route now.

Please send a PM with details other than what have been posted here so I can decide whether to add Rock Trading to my Scam Alert signature

I'm sorry about it.

This is why we strongly suggest to go straight to the authorities in order to solve the issue if he/she does not agree with us.  Scammers do not suggest it.....