Topic: Theymos: What the fuck is up with BFL and TradeFortress? - page 11. (Read 14360 times)

I misinterpreted, the line above seem to suggest that you thought that people should be able to crusade against stupid people, but that the general communuity look down upon it so its probably best not to. Great to see you learned some lessons from those early experineces, I have been scammed before so I perhaps jumped the gun a little. 

I can't tell if you read what I said or not, but you realize that was also my point? What I did was stupid and I'm not interested in every doing something like that again. I learned a lesson. The point of this thread is, "is TradeFortress going to learn his?" and "Is Theymos going to pick and choose when to have standards for bans and scammer tags?"

Not sure what to say to this as I think it was said in misunderstanding of what is going on..

Most scams derive from the stupidity of the victim, does that make it legitimate practice to "prank" or "teach" the (naive or inexperienced) stupid person a lesson? On a slightly unrelated note, I am glad I did not accept those ASIC shares now as it is not good business to involve yourself with people whol like to fuck about with your money. Ironically the same reason I want out of the FIAT system. 

Well I still don't understand what's going on with Ripple BTC.

I have gotten 4 BTC or IOU from tradefortress but I don't use bitstamp. So what should i do now?

PS: I know they are not real btc i only want to know about this thing.

I can't believe you just risked 10 bitcoins to prove your point, lol. Quite a pair on you.

This thread is really interesting because this is what is going to happen when people start trusting their friends, who trust another layer of friends.

Lots of complaints, misunderstandings, etc

If the "feeling scammed" one would follow riplle rules, he would pay someone with this TF IOU, isnt it right?

The ripple IOUs are like dateless checks. If you have one from wells fargo its good, if you have TF check (in this case) it would be nothing at all!!,!

Trade Fortress would be a scammer if he tried to deny the debt.
But he doesnt, he openly assumes the debt through an IOU with no redemption date, rsrsrs

This was an incredible move, no Scam!

Ripple slogan suggestion: ripple, you trust, you learn

This entire debate is the same as my Pirate bet where I didn't ask for escrow (because I was trying to prove a point about making bets without escrow and trusting strangers on the internet). I never accepted a penny from anyone and I still got instant scammer tagged and was held to actually paying people the balances of my prank.

The general consensus was that I "scammed expected value" or some whatnot. Despite feeling awful for others having made ignorant financial decisions based on that bet and having learned my lessons, you'd think this community would have learned it's lesson too. Instead, here we are again, except this time it seems Theymos is waiting on something (I'm honestly not sure what that is). I don't know what he's waiting on for BFL either.


Bottom line for community (a lesson I learned the hard way): Don't fuck with other people's money to "teach them lessons", despite your passionate crusade against stupidity.

Bottom line for mods: Stop having double standards for everything that happens on the forums. It's either okay to scam expected value (cheating), or it's not. Pick one and stick with it.

This is nothing to do with ripple, and show's no flaw in it. It simply shows that you should be careful who you trust, always.

TradeFortress has asked for trust, and promised people money. He has incurred debt. He has a 100 BTC overdraft with many members of this forum, and he's cashed out over 10 BTC so far. This is money he owes.

TradeFortress is either trustworthy, or is not. So far, it seems he's one of the shadiest people I've ever met on the internet. He has facilitated nothing but his own demise.

TradeFortress, make good your promises, repay your debts, contact the people who issued trust to you and ask them to revoke it. What you have tried to do here is low and foolish.

Sounds like your accusation is against Ripple, not TF.   Perhaps you should apologize to him as you are basically saying that TF set up the rules of Ripple to cheat YOU.   Can you prove that TF was the creator of this Ripple and he did it just to cheat you?
Considering the USA has had over 20 million people not pay their contractual obligation on their HOME, risking becoming homeless, there is no way I would ever "trust" IOUs from people I do not know.

This is ridiculous.

TradeFortress has knowingly tried to scam 450 people out of up to 100 BTC each, whether he ultimately received it or not. He knows this, which is why he asked me, ONLY ME, to turn the trust to 0, because he knew he was the main agent facilitating, and responsible, for everything.

If it has exposed a flaw in ripple, one where there are no dates to when a debt is due, so be it, I'm sure this can be remedied quickly.

In the meantime, he has screwed me out of 10.15 BTC, and set up a scenario where he facilitates up to 445 more BTC getting taken from people. BTC he has given, promised to pay, and which he has asked to incur in debt with other people. He has now incurred some of it, he owes it.

You can argue over a technicality all you want, but what he has set up is morally wrong in every way, it is an elaborate scam, and who is to say it is not him who has withdrawn some of the BTC, or planned to withdraw some of it?

I think TF should definitely pay back those hundreds of bitcoins in the time he specified in the contracts. Oh wait, he didn't specify a date!

One of the most important corallaries to Murphy's Law is this:
The hidden flaw never remains so.

I think you are going overboard.   What if TF does pay this IOU you feel he has acknowledged?  What if he decides to pay it when the last block is mined (in 2140)?   Do you still feel scammed?  What are your callable rights on this IOU?   Can you send the source that explains the duration of an IOU on ripple?  If TF is still alive, you cannot say that he has not honored his IOU to you.   Only after he is dead and his estate is settled and IF you are left out of the distribution can you really say he never repaid you.

Please do not troll around about this until the his estate is in probate.

Okay, you owe me 10.15 BTC which you have explicitly given away to users of bitcointalk, asking them to opt in to receive it by taking specific actions: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1-free-ripple-btc-giveaway-ended-see-op-over-455-btc-gaveaway-206948

You purposefully and willing told each user that you were sending them 1 BTC each, an IOU for 1 BTC, and they fully expected to receive that 1 BTC from you, which is why they opted in the first place.

They were not to know whether you had BTC in your account, whether were "good for" the money or not, and as you well knew, the second somebody with BTC from a trusted source opted in, you would incur debt with that person.

YOU sent 1 BTC to multiple people which you had no intention of making good on yourself, YOU asked for the trust from other people. You are entirely 1000% responsible for your own actions.

You promised these people 1 BTC each, 10 have received this so far, and somebody else with 0.15 BTC. In the process you have incurred that debt with me - thankfully not some person who didn't know what they were getting in to.

You owe me 10.15 BTC. And you owe 445+ other people 1 BTC each. You willingly and publicly opted in to this, you set it all up, now you pay the price.

Or are you trying to say that you did not understand this would happen?

Theymos, Mods, John K, I request the scammer tag. TradeFortress owes me 10.15 BTC, and has also promised 445 other users 1 BTC each. As an act of good will, I will not call in the other 50 BTC he has promised to pay me, by issuing me an IOU for said sum.

I think TF is not a scammer.
I agree that ripple IOUs between users are like debts without terms. You trusted that person to do WHATEVER he wants with your money in exchange for a declaration of debt, not a promise of payment. Who owes you is not even a person, is a virtual wallet that is operated by someone. You have a declaration of debt from r3......ghygf! or whatever ripple address. What if that person sells his wallet? Now you trust an unknown! Rsrsrs. This is so naive to trust a ripple addres.

Everyone who accepted to enter in the ripple world agreed to this terms and they have what they paid for. They have their IOUs.

About gateways, things are different in the case you made a deposit, and they are allowed to operate under local anti-scam laws, so they bankly and legally owe you that money, they should provide you liquidity, otherwise they can be sued. The counterpart is a company, and the ripple addres will be linked to it.

IMO we should only trust in gateways.

Still, regarding having exchanges made in my wallet without permission, determined by the flow of orders inside the gateway, i agree that this is too much freedom for free. The gateway uses us as a source of funds for its profitable trading operations without paying for that.

@Tradefortress...your point is moot and even though it continues to blow up in your face, you refuse to acknowledge that it's not a problem with Ripple,  (Ripple only does what you tell it to do.)  but rather it's a problem with you.  You are misleading people simply to slander Ripple and now you have people trying to get their BTC's back from you and you're giving them a hard time.

You're making an absolute fool out of yourself.  Give it up...your attempts are futile.  

The fact that the mods have not put an end to this shows that "principles" only matter when applied to everyone else except those raking huge profits off this forum.  Shameful.

I like this quote.

So basicly the ripple system allows me to make a local small kiosk where people can buy ripple iou's for any currency they want. Then they can send the iou's to anywhere in the word, maybe buy something from net.

But the main point is that I can sell the IOU's as debth, ie get the customer's 100€ and give him 100€ IOU's, which i actually create at the same moment he gives me the real money.... So I have a free 100€ loan for ethernity?

But if I want to keep the business running, I guess I should also give customers 100€, if they send me 100 € IOU?

Our first service is close to launching and I'm handing the "BlackLilac" account over to the person who I've hired to do our PR. I won't be posting much anymore but I create this account for myself.

That's me. I have one bitcoin, which is not mine. I can reasonably assume it is either your's or TF's? I will return it when I know for sure to what address.

Offtopic, but are you BlackLilac? Why do you have 2 accounts?