Topic: Theymos: What the fuck is up with BFL and TradeFortress? - page 9. (Read 14360 times)

I didn't take real bitcoins away from you, I didn't even take BTC.Bitstamp from you (remember when I gave it back to you?). My actions have allowed other independent people to exchange your BTC.Bitstamp to more BTC.TradeFortress, but as I've repeatedly said I'm not paying you BTC because I have never sent you bitcoins in the first place. Just Ripple bitcoin tokens, which are not bitcoins.

Derp. (Also, this is coming from the guy that thinks public blockchain / public ledger is a bug and filed an issue in the bug tracker for ripple).

redeem your ripple IOUs for real bitcoins? They are promises to pay, but who cares, you TOOK real bitcoins from me. Do you hear me talkign about the what-you-suppose-are-worthless IOUs for 50 BTC and 1 BTC you issued me? no.

This is about the fully trusted and backed BTC IOUs you took from me and gave away.

When will you be repaying your debt with me? YOU personally owe ME.

I sent people Ripple BTC when they asked, just like what I have being doing in the giveaway thread. I've sent people thousands of Ripple BTC, and sending 15 Ripple BTC to someone who asked was no exception. Have you being following? I also sent you 50 Ripple BTC too.

Either way, I don't redeem ripple BTCs for real BTCs, and..


It's pretty clear that I wasn't going to let you redeem by Ripple IOUs for real bitcoins, I've said it directly to you but you persisted. This is exactly what would happen, have some intelligence pl0x.

So that gives you the right to take out a 100 btc credit line with me, use over 10 BTC of it, and never repay it?

I don't care how honest you are in your other dealings, I'd expect you to be. In this dealing you have given IOUs which were NOT worthless to other users, then taken a BTC debt out with me and passed it on. When you gave that 15 BTC IOU after everything had been proved, you knew exactly what would happen, or indeed arranged it.

Argue about terms, times, whatever, you have an outstanding credit line of 10.15 BTC with me, 9.15 BTC which I demand back. When will you be paying this?

Blockchain 1BqZohTvZ6KmPFj9ThS3CeGqpm3hJYfSqo or Ripple are both fine. You know my ripple address, I've reduced my trust to you so you can't incur any more debt, since you've proved very untrustworthy in the past 24 hours, certainly when dealing with me through ripple. I cannot speak to your other services or transactions, nor do I care about them.

I obviously do see the conflict of interests between code that allows people to lend to their friends and a business which makes money from lending coins though, but perhaps you are just ripping me off to prevent other people from getting ripped off (!?). You/we demonstrated (a) how a system works, (b) that you were untrustworthy.

In this demonstration you played the part of the scammer, the untrustworthy gateway, and I played the part of the hapless victim (to prevent some newb from loosing up to 100 btc). Only after everything was proved, you took it one step further and really did take 9.15 BTC from me.

Because they've received a lot of money from BFL both as a forum entity and individually as mods, not all of them but most of them. BFL is obviously a scam and was created to be a scam!

That explains it.

If you've being on here for a while, you should know that MPOE-PR is pretty much always correct in determining what services and businesses are junk.

What rubbish. Do you think Ripple users are not programmers and BitCoin users? I've been programming for almost 20 years, I was in Bitcoin from the start and introduced it to Amir Taaki and Lazlo Torok, I was a very early adopter of Ripple too, and several other money related things from OpenTransactions through to PaySwarm and the surrounding standards. I understand money, debt, and of course am very familiar with David Graebers work. Most of the other Ripple users I know, also come from a similar background.

And now, some newb, TradeFortress, has been allowed to take a vendetta to the point that he can take over $1k from one of those users and get away with it, me. A complete piss take.

This was funny. Somebody is running begging classes for the Bitcoin community?


The obvious defense to this is that the ripple thing is very new, populated by very clueless people and it will improve in time. The risk of course is that absent competent people involved it will simply end up tagged as a failure (which is happening already). The complete inability of the managing team to obtain and retain the support of competent people seems to irreversibly doom this particular installment (even if the ripple idea might eventually come to some fruition, made and marketed by people with actual skills, understanding and connections rather than by random "hey ma look, I can programmate the computor" folks).

Yeah same here. I literally bought my first BTC and later found out about his service through his signature ad and decided to deposit my BTC there. Why not? I don't own a rig and I would love for small business to have options for funds. Plus I could increase what very little I have. Lets just hope he is trustworthy his site is pretty cool. If ever he does go rogue on us someone truly trustworthy should create a website just like it. I'd definitely use it.

Much more, lol. You can check out btcinvest's history.

EDIT: LOL @ one of the people who have being vocal in this smear campaign, thanks for signing up and depositing! I thought you were saying I'm a scammer? 

Yes,i am. I dont have many btc, but what I have is on deposit there. If I'm wrong about TF it would be a drag, but wouldn't be life changing. He seems to be able to generate the funds to cover the interest payments.

You're a user of CoinLenders?

Just my thoughts. If TF were indeed a scammer, he could have taken off with the proceeds of the IPO of his fund. He could have also taken off with the deposits in Coin Lenders. I think TF is trustworthy and will continue to use Coin Lenders.

Interestingly, this does not seem to be true. It's only the UI that has this behavior. Power users can turn it off.


I don't know enough to comment about this specific situation. I do know that Ripple is very hard to understand and a lot of people are putting a lot of money into it. Therefore, I support TradeFortress's efforts towards promoting a skeptical attitude about it. Remember Pirateat40?

You loaned 10.15 btc from me, and gave it away. You owe me 10.15 btc.

For putting that together, it may be worth noting there was no flaw in the system, he loaned btc from users via an overdraft (trust line) and gave out to other users via an IOU. He is accountable for all his actions.

We have had the exact same discussion, rebuttals etc already, and it seems like you have nothing to say so you keep repeating the same thing again.

It is okay, I have better things to do than respond to accusations which are false again and again. Check IP logs, ask your friends at OpenCoin inc for logs or user agents or whatever, I don't care because I haven't took anyone's coins.

I suggest everyone who is interested to read previous responses because it is a waste of time, and saying the same thing again and again does not make it true. Just makes you look like you have nothing else to do.

But he didn't promise to pay 100% ROI immediately, did he? So he could just say "I will pay... later" and not receive a scammer tag?

Here's how the scam went down along with his admission of what he was doing...


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1-free-ripple-btc-giveaway-ended-see-op-over-455-btc-gaveaway-206948

I PM'd him to ask him how he would deal with redeeming IOUs so that anyone could convert his IOUs into BTC.  He wrote...




So in summary he misled people, while counting on their ignorance of how Ripple works, into letting him put them in harm's way so he and his confederates could steal their legitimate IOU's from reputable gateways.

TF may not meet the definition of "scammer" for the forum.

I have other words to describe his actions and the person that would take those actions.

None of them are suitable for print.