Topic: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism - page 36. (Read 33901 times)

Quote from: kokjo on April 28, 2013, 03:02:48 PM

... pyramid snip ...

oh, so now im property?

Indeed, your body is an amount of matter which has a definite physical location, and belongs to someone. In other words, property. If that matter is unowned, it can be claimed and used by anyone.

i can not be claimed by someone i would just laugh at him, and explain that i do not recognize ownership of anykind.

Then he'll walk away with your bike.

okay... i will find another one.

But these things cost, don't they? Or are bikes free in the fairyland kingdom of Denmark?

No, we currently have some private property laws in Denmark(well, there are bikes you can lend for a small deposit that you get back when you park it again.).

We are currently discussing a fairyland where the concept of private property does not exist, ownership have no meaning, and people will look at you as if you just escaped the mental institution if you speak about it.

myrkul

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Quote from: myrkul on April 28, 2013, 02:59:00 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 28, 2013, 02:59:00 PM

... pyramid snip ...

oh, so now im property?

Indeed, your body is an amount of matter which has a definite physical location, and belongs to someone. In other words, property. If that matter is unowned, it can be claimed and used by anyone.

i can not be claimed by someone i would just laugh at him, and explain that i do not recognize ownership of anykind.

Then he'll walk away with your bike.

okay... i will find another one.

But these things cost, don't they? Or are bikes free in the fairyland kingdom of Denmark?

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

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You are WRONG!

Quote from: hawkeye on April 28, 2013, 01:43:19 PM

... pyramid snip ...

oh, so now im property?

Indeed, your body is an amount of matter which has a definite physical location, and belongs to someone. In other words, property. If that matter is unowned, it can be claimed and used by anyone.

i can not be claimed by someone i would just laugh at him, and explain that i do not recognize ownership of anykind.

Then he'll walk away with your bike.

okay... i will find another one.

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

Quote from: kokjo on April 28, 2013, 01:31:05 PM

Quote from: hawkeye on April 28, 2013, 01:20:54 PM

And that my friend says it all. That's why you think what you think. If you owned more stuff, you would not think it belongs to other people.

...and you completely missed the point: i own stuff because society expects me to. i want to own stuff because society expects me to.
if the society had other expectations i would do what was expected, if i lived in a society where no one owned anything, i would not own anything because society expects me to.

Private property is a social construct, just like natural rights.

I think it's really sad the way that people get brainwashed in socialist countries. I hope you break free before it becomes too ingrained because your big warm, fuzzy, bountiful government won't stay warm and fuzzy and bountiful forever. This always happens. The herd become helpless and dependent on the government. My advice would be not to get into society group-think. Think for yourself.

my life explained:

Code:

while(happiness_level() >= 70) {
chill();
do_as_im_used_to();
relax();
party();
}

myrkul

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Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

... pyramid snip ...

oh, so now im property?

Indeed, your body is an amount of matter which has a definite physical location, and belongs to someone. In other words, property. If that matter is unowned, it can be claimed and used by anyone.

i can not be claimed by someone i would just laugh at him, and explain that i do not recognize ownership of anykind.

Then he'll walk away with your bike.

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

... pyramid snip ...

oh, so now im property?

Indeed, your body is an amount of matter which has a definite physical location, and belongs to someone. In other words, property. If that matter is unowned, it can be claimed and used by anyone.

i can not be claimed by someone i would just laugh at him, and explain that i do not recognize ownership of anykind.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: kokjo on April 28, 2013, 01:31:24 PM

Who owns your life, then?

We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)

Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?

no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.

Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?

no, why would i do that?

Unowned property can be used by whoever comes along. If you are unowned, then you should acquiesce to any demands anyone who comes along makes.

Would you like to change your mind on who owns you now?

oh, so now im property?

Indeed, your body is an amount of matter which has a definite physical location, and belongs to someone. In other words, property. If that matter is unowned, it can be claimed and used by anyone.

Quote from: kokjo on April 28, 2013, 01:31:05 PM

i said i cannot be owned, and no one controls me. if i do not accept the idea of self-ownership, that means that the ugly dude also does not own himself, and i can therefor command him as i wishes.

Ah, but he believes that he owns himself, and so will refuse your command. Your life belongs to someone. If not you, then whom?

hawkeye

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Activity: 364

Merit: 253

Quote from: hawkeye on April 28, 2013, 01:20:54 PM

And that my friend says it all. That's why you think what you think. If you owned more stuff, you would not think it belongs to other people.

...and you completely missed the point: i own stuff because society expects me to. i want to own stuff because society expects me to.
if the society had other expectations i would do what was expected, if i lived in a society where no one owned anything, i would not own anything because society expects me to.

Private property is a social construct, just like natural rights.

I think it's really sad the way that people get brainwashed in socialist countries. I hope you break free before it becomes too ingrained because your big warm, fuzzy, bountiful government won't stay warm and fuzzy and bountiful forever. This always happens. The herd become helpless and dependent on the government. My advice would be not to get into society group-think. Think for yourself.

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

Quote from: kokjo on April 28, 2013, 01:31:24 PM

Quote from: kokjo on April 28, 2013, 01:31:24 PM

Who owns your life, then?

We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)

Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?

no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.

Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?

no, why would i do that?

Unowned property can be used by whoever comes along. If you are unowned, then you should acquiesce to any demands anyone who comes along makes.

Would you like to change your mind on who owns you now?

oh, so now im property? i said i cannot be owned, and no one controls me. if i do not accept the idea of self-ownership, that means that the ugly dude also does not own himself, and i can therefor command him as i wishes.

I still have the illusion of free will, i can choose to do what i like.

myrkul

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Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: myrkul on April 28, 2013, 01:28:56 PM

Who owns your life, then?

We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)

Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?

no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.

Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?

no, why would i do that?

Unowned property can be used by whoever comes along. If you are unowned, then you should acquiesce to any demands anyone who comes along makes.

Would you like to change your mind on who owns you now?

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

Quote from: kokjo on April 28, 2013, 01:25:28 PM

Quote from: hawkeye on April 28, 2013, 01:20:54 PM

Who owns your life, then?

We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)

Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?

no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.

Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?

it depends. is she pretty?

He is very ugly.

no, why would i do that?

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

And that my friend says it all. That's why you think what you think. If you owned more stuff, you would not think it belongs to other people.

...and you completely missed the point: i own stuff because society expects me to. i want to own stuff because society expects me to.
if the society had other expectations i would do what was expected, if i lived in a society where no one owned anything, i would not own anything because society expects me to.

Private property is a social construct, just like natural rights.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: kokjo on April 28, 2013, 01:25:28 PM

Who owns your life, then?

We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)

Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?

no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.

Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?

it depends. is she pretty?

He is very ugly.

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

Who owns your life, then?

We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)

Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?

no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.

Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?

it depends. is she pretty?

knowing the definition does not mean that its always well defined.

Actually, yeah, that's exactly what it means.

absurd example:
an alien race decided for many millions years ago, ot play god, and create the planet earth, and they therefor owns it, and everything on it.
now we humans live and owns the earth.
what will happen when they come back, and take back the earth and us humans that they created? who owns what?

They abandoned their property, and we've been maintaining it since. It's ours, and they can't take it.

they did not abandon it, they have had a eye on it ever since they created it. for them, they could just have been away for what they think is like 2 minutes.
and do you call maintenance to drop nuclear bomb everywhere?

do you eat meat?

I do indeed. I assume you have a point here.

you know some people like to extend the so-called natural rights to every living being, right?

well you just violated a cute cow's inalienable right to live, by having someone kill it so you could eat a good and tasty beef.

A cow is an animal. It does not have rights, for it is unable to assert them, or even understand the concept.

Quote from: kokjo on April 28, 2013, 01:13:37 PM

now if you say that your natural rights does not work that way, i will say that they are arbitrary and therefor not natural, and ask you: "do black people have natural rights?".

Black what now? Black people. They're people, aren't they? They have rights.

hawkeye

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Activity: 364

Merit: 253

Quote from: hawkeye on April 28, 2013, 12:59:52 PM

Quote from: hawkeye on April 28, 2013, 12:59:52 PM

im not a fan of private property, so i will play along and say: no one, not even me. im un-owned.

People who say they aren't fans of private property are usually people who don't own much.

no, i don't own much. but im still fairly happy, i don't need to own much. and what i own i only own because the society seems to assert private property rights. if we lived in a society with no private property rights i would still have what i have now, note that the first have is a "i own"-have, and the other is a "i have access to"-have, which is about the same.

And that my friend says it all. That's why you think what you think. If you owned more stuff, you would not think it belongs to other people.

You're living in a socialist wonderland. But they are never what they appear to be. That's why I said, let's take a look at the balance sheets, let's see where all this money is coming from, how much of it is debt, and who it is owed to. Then we'll see the truth of the situation. Government's throughout time have made promises they can't keep. Yours will be no different.

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

im not a fan of private property, so i will play along and say: no one, not even me. im un-owned.

People who say they aren't fans of private property are usually people who don't own much.

no, i don't own much. but im still fairly happy, i don't need to own much. and what i own i only own because the society seems to assert private property rights. if we lived in a society with no private property rights i would still have what i have now, note that the first have is a "i own"-have, and the other is a "i have access to"-have, which is about the same.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Who owns your life, then?

We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)

Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?

no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.

Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?

knowing the definition does not mean that its always well defined.

Actually, yeah, that's exactly what it means.

absurd example:
an alien race decided for many millions years ago, ot play god, and create the planet earth, and they therefor owns it, and everything on it.
now we humans live and owns the earth.
what will happen when they come back, and take back the earth and us humans that they created? who owns what?

They abandoned their property, and we've been maintaining it since. It's ours, and they can't take it.

do you eat meat?

I do indeed. I assume you have a point here.

you know some people like to extend the so-called natural rights to every living being, right?

well you just violated a cute cow's inalienable right to live, by having someone kill it so you could eat a good and tasty beef.

A cow is an animal. It does not have rights, for it is unable to assert them, or even understand the concept.

now if you say that your natural rights does not work that way, i will say that they are arbitrary and therefor not natural, and ask you: "do black people have natural rights?".

Black what now? Black people. They're people, aren't they? They have rights.

hawkeye

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 253