Too harsh on user? - page 6. | Bitcointalksearch.org

wiss19

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Quote from: klidex on March 10, 2023, 01:28:14 PM

Depends on the casino rules you mean.
Actually using different IP with the same device is like using multiple accounts.
Because what detects all of that is the system and maybe the system detects what you are doing as cheating.
I understand what you're saying but still it is the policy of the casino to confiscate funds and possibly freeze them if a fraud is suspected.
But I think why are you using the same device ? whereas you should already understand that such behavior is against casino rules and puts your account and balance at risk.

It can be clear that his friend didn't read the rules or the casinos terms and conditions before using the site and thinks that such acts is allowed but it was too late already. The unexpected have already happened but this should teach his friend a valuable lesson and that is like I said earlier to not be lazy but always learn to how to read guidelines. We can't call this cruelty.

The casino is not harsh. Sorry to say but it looks like the OP is and his friend is the one that is harsh here because they came up with these accusations or complaints. The reason on why his friends did that can be valid and not for abusive purposes but rules are rules and there might no be excuses for it.

agustina2

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on March 10, 2023, 12:06:37 PM

This happened to someone I know very well, but I found this to be too cruel, different IPs on the same device shouldn't cause this ban, what do you think?

Please give us clear and more detailed information. Changing SIMS shouldn't have that kind of related penalty. I don't even consider that as a way or attempt to do some cheating on the gambling site. There must be other IP-related issues that your friend went through.

Besides, if your story is true, why not just mentioned the site you are talking about for us to make a self-research?

If that is legit though, that is a harsh thing to do by the gambling site and unprofessional to have that kind of treatment to their customers.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: Wiwo on March 10, 2023, 03:36:43 PM

Quote from: coolcoinz on March 10, 2023, 03:23:05 PM

I agree with this. KYC should always clear things up.
There's also many ways to handle a user with 2 accounts from being extremely nice to him and asking him to choose 1 account and transfer all funds out of the other because it will be closed, through denying him wins on one account, by denying him wins on both accounts, up to a blatant scam IMO, which is taking his wins from both accounts along with all deposits.

I don't think casinos will be that nice to ask a user to choose between accounts when caught in case of multiple accounts since most of them already have it mentioned in the T&C of what penalty they will issue if a player is involved in multiple accounting.

-Since casinos are out to do business, once they discover any issues related to cheating the account is outrightly flagged and close pending when the case gets cleared up or forgotten.

That's why I wrote "extremely nice" which implies far above average response. I wouldn't expect that, but I also believe that this should be decided on a case by case basis.
Imagine that someone made 2 accounts, got no warning upon registering because the system did not detect it, deposited only on one of them and played on 1, until he got caught. He did no damage to the casino, did not influence other games, did not cheat. I see no reason to ban or deny him his win on that 1 account that he used.
As a representative, I'd ban the unused account and let the player know why it got banned, that's all.

Viscore

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Quote from: sujonali1819 on March 10, 2023, 01:19:10 PM

Quote from: Crypt0Gore on March 10, 2023, 12:06:37 PM

Is it right to call a gambling platform a scam for confiscating users account with the deposited balance because you use more than one SIM card to access the platform? The SIM cards aren't from same network provider, so their IP addresses are different from one another.

This happened to someone I know very well, but I found this to be too cruel, different IPs on the same device shouldn't cause this ban, what do you think?

There are some gambling platforms that pray that users make this mistake and use the opportunity to sit down on their money.

No, I will not support the platform decision in this case. It's normal you will have two sim cards in your mobile. You will use both sim Data to browse the internet. But the platform can not ban for this reason only. I don't know yet even if there could be rules like you can not access sites from different IPs (even the device is the same here). But if there is any TOS like this they can take this decision but it's against the users. Not a good decision and this could not be a good platform.

Any platform that is going against our own privacy and is harming our funds, I know in the first place those platforms are not safe and reliable. So once you experienced it, then stay away from that platform by then because obviously, they are here to scam people and not to treat them the right way. And I don’t think using dual sim with same device is a big offense for them, if their goal is to scam us, they will always pushed through it.

seoincorporation

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This is hard to believe and it would be nice to know what casino did this.

Some casinos don't allow VPN, but since we are talking about SIM connection, then the IP should be from the same region. And this scenario could be the same as a user with a dynamic IP, that's why is hard to believe.

Even if the casino detects multiple log-in on the same account at the same time with different IP's that's not enough reason to block the account because that could mean the user is connected from PC and Phone at the same time.

Wiwo

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Quote from: coolcoinz on March 10, 2023, 03:23:05 PM

I agree with this. KYC should always clear things up.
There's also many ways to handle a user with 2 accounts from being extremely nice to him and asking him to choose 1 account and transfer all funds out of the other because it will be closed, through denying him wins on one account, by denying him wins on both accounts, up to a blatant scam IMO, which is taking his wins from both accounts along with all deposits.

I don't think casinos will be that nice to ask a user to choose between accounts when caught in case of multiple accounts since most of them already have it mentioned in the T&C of what penalty they will issue if a player is involved in multiple accounting.

-Since casinos are out to do business, once they discover any issues related to cheating the account is outrightly flagged and close pending when the case gets cleared up or forgotten.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on March 10, 2023, 12:06:37 PM

Is it right to call a gambling platform a scam for confiscating users account with the deposited balance because you use more than one SIM card to access the platform? The SIM cards aren't from same network provider, so their IP addresses are different from one another.

This happened to someone I know very well, but I found this to be too cruel, different IPs on the same device shouldn't cause this ban, what do you think?

There are some gambling platforms that pray that users make this mistake and use the opportunity to sit down on their money.

Depends on the policy of the casino so always read the TOS since if they right that they can seize the money of the user proven to use multiple account then there's nothing you can do with it if the person you know been using that on that casino. But this is really harsh way done by them since the really proper way to this approach is return the funds of the user then block their account.

Maybe that is very shady casino which always think about their gains so better leave that if you know they are doing this actions.

coolcoinz

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Are you maybe referring to an issue with Metaspins?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/metaspinscom-scam-site-dont-put-your-btc-there-not-pay-9500-usd-winnings-5444025

In this case OP did not admit to having 2 cards. OP claimed to have only 1 account and there was no proof provided by the casino. The player also went through KYC and despite that was denied all funds.

Quote from: Wiwo on March 10, 2023, 12:22:02 PM

If there is a suspect of multiple accounting from the same user the highest the casino will request from the player is KYC, and this is one of the major reasons why the casino has KYC policies on the ground.

-And any casino that confiscates your balance without due process must be a scam casino, and we have many of them so you are warned to avoid using such a platform.

I agree with this. KYC should always clear things up.
There's also many ways to handle a user with 2 accounts from being extremely nice to him and asking him to choose 1 account and transfer all funds out of the other because it will be closed, through denying him wins on one account, through denying him wins on both accounts, up to a blatant scam IMO, which is taking his wins from both accounts along with all deposits.

BVeyron

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Definitely a bad attitude towards clients, sounds like they are preparing for further addition of KYC, if not yet done... However, most security algorithms see several different ips in one session as an attempt to break into the account... So, I think that stable ip is a must have, especially for gambling

avikz

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on March 10, 2023, 12:06:37 PM

This happened to someone I know very well, but I found this to be too cruel, different IPs on the same device shouldn't cause this ban, what do you think?

Two different IPs should not cause the ban. Usually, a platform will send out email to validate the new IP as it is seen as a security threat to the user's account. So to protect the user's fund, they ideally send email to validate the user and once the validation is done, everything should be normal! That's the usual practice!

But please try to understand more about the situation. Because the scenario you have posted should not cause a complete ban especially when you have funds in your account. The gambling platform should give the user another chance to release the funds. If they have not given the chance to withdraw the fund through KYC or other verification, then open a thread in the scam acquisition forum to report the platform. We are interested in knowing the name!

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Quote from: goinmerry on March 10, 2023, 01:06:21 PM

While I don't see it as a problem to consider by some gambling sites, regarding the use of a different network SIM nor having the same located IP, are you sure OP that's the only reason why the account got close to the point that funds are confiscated?

Technically, that was harsh as for funds to be confiscated, the violation should be really considered heavy.

Is this a true story OP? If yes, what site is this? Or just sharing a scenario that might happen to some users?

I also find this story quite exaggerating but if this is really happening, then it’s obvious that your violation on their rules is heavy and you need to be reprimanded from it. However, whatever the level of your violation is, still they have no right to confiscate your funds since it’s already unethical. They can banned you as long as they want, but confiscating your funds, only scam casinos do that.

STT

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Sounds a bit extreme, many IP are dynamic anyway. I understand sometimes KYC might be requested to verify a unique account. In majority of cases people should be allowed to close out in an orderly way but its true sometimes actions are required to prevent fraud or especially misuse of bonuses. Hard to say in absolute way either extreme is correct.

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Quote from: Finestream on March 10, 2023, 02:12:09 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on March 10, 2023, 12:22:02 PM

If there is a suspect of multiple accounting from the same user the highest the casino will request from the player is KYC, and this is one of the major reasons why the casino has KYC policies on the ground.

-And any casino that confiscates your balance without due process must be a scam casino, and we have many of them so you are warned to avoid using such a platform.

Casinos have no right to confiscate our balance since it’s clearly against our privacy, and I think reputable casinos know their limits so they will never do that. But for scam casinos, knowing they will do everything just to take advantage over our money, then maybe they eventually do that and just point out some mistake on the casino user itself so that the casino will never be liable and will never be at fault in the end. Obviously, it’s another trap for scam casinos and if you gamble without small knowledge in gambling, you will definitely fall for it.

I don't think you are 100% right on that statement about the right of casinos to withheld withdrawal or balance because according to the anti-money laundering laws it stated that your account will be restricted until you can provide valid means of verification of the ownership of the account.

-I may not be right in all cases but there are quite a good number of casinos that have that mentioned in their terms of service and players need to agree to that before account creation.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on March 10, 2023, 12:06:37 PM

Is it right to call a gambling platform a scam for confiscating users account with the deposited balance because you use more than one SIM card to access the platform? The SIM cards aren't from same network provider, so their IP addresses are different from one another.

There are some gambling platforms that pray that users make this mistake and use the opportunity to sit down on their money.

No, it doesn't have to be that way; in fact, many providers and cellular carriers provide their users with a dynamic IP.
Maybe this user has whitelisted IP addresses? In this case, there may indeed be problems with access to the site.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on March 10, 2023, 12:06:37 PM

Is it right to call a gambling platform a scam for confiscating users account with the deposited balance because you use more than one SIM card to access the platform? The SIM cards aren't from same network provider, so their IP addresses are different from one another.

This happened to someone I know very well, but I found this to be too cruel, different IPs on the same device shouldn't cause this ban, what do you think?

There are some gambling platforms that pray that users make this mistake and use the opportunity to sit down on their money.

This is the first time I heard of a case where a casino confiscated a fund because it uses different sim card to access the platform. Using different sim cards of a same country should show the same region, besides, it is not a multi-accounting but rather having different IP of the same country to access the platform.

I have no idea what would be the violation of this kind of action, if the country or region of your friend is not restricted, I don't see any ground for that casino to confiscate the fund. I think there is something that you're friend is not telling you. But assuming your friend is telling the truth then I would think that the gambling platform is at fault here.

Quote from: GxSTxV on March 10, 2023, 02:04:05 PM

At the same time it's important for gambling platforms to have rules and policies that prohibit the use of multiple accounts or devices to access their services and these rules are typically put in place to prevent fraud, money laundering, and other forms of abuse and user protection. In this case you are talking about there is some users that get hacked and access to their account so it's important for the casino to stop that hacker from withdrawing and even gamble which may lead to big losses.
But trusted and legit casinos of course they will only apply the ban and restriction for a limited time until they verify that everything is good by uploading and confirming identity. If not than the casino is just a scam simply

I have never seen any rules about using multiple gadgets to be restricted in any gambling platform. More or less the @OP's friend might be charged of multi-accounting because of the sim card IP being shared by different users.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on March 10, 2023, 12:06:37 PM

Is it right to call a gambling platform a scam for confiscating users account with the deposited balance because you use more than one SIM card to access the platform? The SIM cards aren't from same network provider, so their IP addresses are different from one another.

This happened to someone I know very well, but I found this to be too cruel, different IPs on the same device shouldn't cause this ban, what do you think?

There are some gambling platforms that pray that users make this mistake and use the opportunity to sit down on their money.

It depends on what is stated in their Terms and Service. If such a case can lead a user account to be put on ban, no choice but to accept the terms. However, that should be clearly detailed to all parties. However, if we take a look at that case that can lead to confiscating the user's deposited balanced, it does not seem fair.

Aside from that, with that simple situation you have mentioned, it should not lead to banhammer and confiscation of the money right away. Maybe there are other parts of the story that you didn't know and just stated the thing you understand well.

Is this for real? Is there really a case like that happened?

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Quote from: Wiwo on March 10, 2023, 12:22:02 PM

If there is a suspect of multiple accounting from the same user the highest the casino will request from the player is KYC, and this is one of the major reasons why the casino has KYC policies on the ground.

-And any casino that confiscates your balance without due process must be a scam casino, and we have many of them so you are warned to avoid using such a platform.

Casinos have no right to confiscate our balance since it’s clearly against our privacy, and I think reputable casinos know their limits so they will never do that. But for scam casinos, knowing they will do everything just to take advantage over our money, then maybe they eventually do that and just point out some mistake on the casino user itself so that the casino will never be liable and will never be at fault in the end. Obviously, it’s another trap for scam casinos and if you gamble without small knowledge in gambling, you will definitely fall for it.

GxSTxV

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At the same time it's important for gambling platforms to have rules and policies that prohibit the use of multiple accounts or devices to access their services and these rules are typically put in place to prevent fraud, money laundering, and other forms of abuse and user protection. In this case you are talking about there is some users that get hacked and access to their account so it's important for the casino to stop that hacker from withdrawing and even gamble which may lead to big losses.
But trusted and legit casinos of course they will only apply the ban and restriction for a limited time until they verify that everything is good by uploading and confirming identity. If not than the casino is just a scam simply

BTCGalaxyA12

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Something very bad. Things that shouldn't be a problem but are a problem.
This case is pure fraud perpetrated by a gambling platform.

A player is not very good at keeping funds in the balance of a gambling site because it contains a big risk. One of the risks is like this case.
Another thing that a player needs to consider is choosing a clear gambling site before making a decision to register.

iv4n

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I played (and still play) in some casinos from several IP addresses. I play mostly from home (1 IP), sometimes I use mobile internet (2 IP), and when I hang out with kids at parent's house I use their WiFi (3 IP address). I just log in and I play without any problems... without KYC after years of actively playing in those casinos.

So from my experience, I doubt that any player will be sanctioned just because he used different IP for the same account (the same device or not is even more ridiculous, I gamble from a laptop and mobile phone in the same casinos from different IP addresses, and in few occasions, I used my wife laptop...). So there's something more, it's not just about different IPs! Maybe OP's friend tried to create multiple accounts and abuse some free drops and bonuses... that happens more often than we think.

Topic: Too harsh on user? - page 6. (Read 700 times)