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Topic: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT - page 82. (Read 157162 times)

hero member
Activity: 687
Merit: 500
March 02, 2016, 04:09:54 AM
It is not even about Satoshi, it is about his vision, which many people still believe in, that is not an appeal to authority. At least not for the people that truly believe in this vision independently. His arguments stand by their own merit, not his authority, do not conflate the two.

And what is Satoshis vision exactly?
I think you have severely misinterpreted what Bitcoin is.

Bitcoin isn't a religion. There is no need to refer to a "Bitcoin god" or his "vision".
You should be able to come up with your own arguments for a block size increase.

If you have to rely on some mythical figure for guidance your argument is obviously too weak.

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
March 02, 2016, 03:37:46 AM
core can do the same.
If these features really are pointless and not noteworthy then just ignore it
Its feels like an awful waste to dismiss all code from anyone else simply because they're not your friend.
No. That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that acting this way is disrespectful towards the people who did most of the work. If the code is good and useful somebody will present it to Core. You've quoted an earlier version of my post, I re-wrote it several times.

Maybe Core should just change licence if they don't like this kind fo dynamics.

That's how open source works, as long as a forking project respect forked project's license I see no harm in advertising a new feature developed independently by the former.

About your last point, trying to make your code into Bitcoin, especially a new feature, is extremely tiring and close to impossible if you do not belong to the group of devs that usually contribute to Core.

Just an anecdote: Peter Tschipper, the dev behind BU xthin, a few months ago proposed to include into Core a datastream compression scheme for blocks and txs that could have save 25% in terms of block space and improved network latency by 30%.

He did all the right things, starting from posting a general sketch of his idea to bitcoin-dev ml, refine the design based on feedbacks, tested it in reproducible manner and upon request provide a BIP draft including working implementation.

After a never ending process at the end the feature and its quite significant gaining wasn't merged, nor a BIP number was assigned.

Guess what Peter at the end gave up and contribute his work to other more receptive project.

It's my understanding that various compression schemes have been looked into and rejected, it's most likely that his code didn't break any new ground or worse opened up new DoS vectors. Failing that if it required a hard fork then it would defiantly be something for the back burners.

Classic, like XT before it, is an Island of Misfit BIPs.   Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
March 02, 2016, 01:56:33 AM
#isclassicdeadyet

Watch as the mystery unfolds!

How is Monero coin doing guyz?!
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
February 28, 2016, 01:14:37 PM
core can do the same.
If these features really are pointless and not noteworthy then just ignore it
Its feels like an awful waste to dismiss all code from anyone else simply because they're not your friend.
No. That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that acting this way is disrespectful towards the people who did most of the work. If the code is good and useful somebody will present it to Core. You've quoted an earlier version of my post, I re-wrote it several times.

Maybe Core should just change licence if they don't like this kind fo dynamics.

That's how open source works, as long as a forking project respect forked project's license I see no harm in advertising a new feature developed independently by the former.

About your last point, trying to make your code into Bitcoin, especially a new feature, is extremely tiring and close to impossible if you do not belong to the group of devs that usually contribute to Core.

Just an anecdote: Peter Tschipper, the dev behind BU xthin, a few months ago proposed to include into Core a datastream compression scheme for blocks and txs that could have save 25% in terms of block space and improved network latency by 30%.

He did all the right things, starting from posting a general sketch of his idea to bitcoin-dev ml, refine the design based on feedbacks, tested it in reproducible manner and upon request provide a BIP draft including working implementation.

After a never ending process at the end the feature and its quite significant gaining wasn't merged, nor a BIP number was assigned.

Guess what Peter at the end gave up and contribute his work to other more receptive project.

It's my understanding that various compression schemes have been looked into and rejected, it's most likely that his code didn't break any new ground or worse opened up new DoS vectors. Failing that if it required a hard fork then it would defiantly be something for the back burners.

no need to guess the reasons why it wasn't merged. it's all in btc-dev ml archives open to anyone who want to check it. nevertheless I can give you a few hints: 25% is not enough, Corallo's relay network is better etc etc,

actually I don't even remember if they explicitly nack it or just avoid to give a final response
full member
Activity: 128
Merit: 103
February 28, 2016, 12:17:16 PM
the spooks seem to be trying to bore us to death with their drivel

only paid shills and/or mental defectives would go on and on like they do

perhaps they consider it respite to come here, rather than thrash around in that sewer full of rabid zombies at r/btc

anyhoo... onward!

legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
February 28, 2016, 11:15:41 AM
core can do the same.
If these features really are pointless and not noteworthy then just ignore it
Its feels like an awful waste to dismiss all code from anyone else simply because they're not your friend.
No. That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that acting this way is disrespectful towards the people who did most of the work. If the code is good and useful somebody will present it to Core. You've quoted an earlier version of my post, I re-wrote it several times.

Maybe Core should just change licence if they don't like this kind fo dynamics.

That's how open source works, as long as a forking project respect forked project's license I see no harm in advertising a new feature developed independently by the former.

About your last point, trying to make your code into Bitcoin, especially a new feature, is extremely tiring and close to impossible if you do not belong to the group of devs that usually contribute to Core.

Just an anecdote: Peter Tschipper, the dev behind BU xthin, a few months ago proposed to include into Core a datastream compression scheme for blocks and txs that could have save 25% in terms of block space and improved network latency by 30%.

He did all the right things, starting from posting a general sketch of his idea to bitcoin-dev ml, refine the design based on feedbacks, tested it in reproducible manner and upon request provide a BIP draft including working implementation.

After a never ending process at the end the feature and its quite significant gaining wasn't merged, nor a BIP number was assigned.

Guess what Peter at the end gave up and contribute his work to other more receptive project.

It's my understanding that various compression schemes have been looked into and rejected, it's most likely that his code didn't break any new ground or worse opened up new DoS vectors. Failing that if it required a hard fork then it would defiantly be something for the back burners.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
February 28, 2016, 09:45:20 AM
core can do the same.
If these features really are pointless and not noteworthy then just ignore it
Its feels like an awful waste to dismiss all code from anyone else simply because they're not your friend.
No. That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that acting this way is disrespectful towards the people who did most of the work. If the code is good and useful somebody will present it to Core. You've quoted an earlier version of my post, I re-wrote it several times.

Maybe Core should just change licence if they don't like this kind fo dynamics.

That's how open source works, as long as a forking project respect forked project's license I see no harm in advertising a new feature developed independently by the former.

About your last point, trying to make your code into Bitcoin, especially a new feature, is extremely tiring and close to impossible if you do not belong to the group of devs that usually contribute to Core.

Just an anecdote: Peter Tschipper, the dev behind BU xthin, a few months ago proposed to include into Core a datastream compression scheme for blocks and txs that could have save 25% in terms of block space and improved network latency by 30%.

He did all the right things, starting from posting a general sketch of his idea to bitcoin-dev ml, refine the design based on feedbacks, tested it in reproducible manner and upon request provide a BIP draft including working implementation.

After a never ending process at the end the feature and its quite significant gaining wasn't merged, nor a BIP number was assigned.

Guess what Peter at the end gave up and contribute his work to other more receptive project.
sr. member
Activity: 689
Merit: 269
February 27, 2016, 02:41:42 PM



feel free to replace  'Satoshi' with another respectable and active "bigblocker" we know today.
It is not even about Satoshi, it is about his vision, which many people still believe in, that is not an appeal to authority. At least not for the people that truly believe in this vision independently. His arguments stand by their own merit, not his authority, do not conflate the two.

lol imho satoshi is now in some pub browsing this drama on his phone. Man he must be laughing his ass now.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
February 27, 2016, 02:39:41 PM
Satoshi understood the implications he didnt pass them off as disastrous, but rather natural evolution
All I see here is an appeal to authority. He's Satoshi, he invented Bitcoin, ergo he is right. This is not really the right way of doing things.
It is not even about Satoshi, it is about his vision, which many people still believe in, that is not an appeal to authority. At least not for the people that truly believe in this vision independently. His arguments stand by their own merit, not his authority, do not conflate the two.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
February 27, 2016, 02:33:31 PM
Satoshi understood the implications he didnt pass them off as disastrous, but rather natural evolution
All I see here is an appeal to authority. He's Satoshi, he invented Bitcoin, ergo he is right. This is not really the right way of doing things.

feel free to replace  'Satoshi' with another respectable and active "bigblocker" we know today.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
February 27, 2016, 02:31:36 PM
Satoshi understood the implications he didnt pass them off as disastrous, but rather natural evolution
All I see here is an appeal to authority. He's Satoshi, he invented Bitcoin, ergo he is right. This is not really the right way of doing things.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
February 27, 2016, 02:30:51 PM
-snip-
Man. You don't git?
Not really in this case. I've never opened the BU Github page and didn't have a reason to do so. Classic did change the name in a few places (for now). However, it is good to see that they've left it intact.

Satoshi said it himself he would have the limit bumped when needed, it was a non-issue for him.
So we're throwing away 5 years worth of data because he is Satoshi therefore he must be right?
Satoshi understood the implications he didnt pass them off as disastrous, but rather natural evolution
sr. member
Activity: 689
Merit: 269
February 27, 2016, 02:30:16 PM

Satoshi's vision

 

As Seen on Reddit™
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
February 27, 2016, 02:23:16 PM
-snip-
Man. You don't git?
Not really in this case. I've never opened the BU Github page and didn't have a reason to do so. Classic did change the name in a few places (for now). However, it is good to see that they've left it intact.

Satoshi said it himself he would have the limit bumped when needed, it was a non-issue for him.
So we're throwing away 5 years worth of data because he is Satoshi therefore he must be right?
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
February 27, 2016, 02:20:54 PM
A bunch of shills on reddit and we're getting endless heated discussions, while Bitcoin operates correctly.

Everyone knew the rules for how long? 5 years? Everyone is aware of the perpetual "stress test" causing the blocks appear full.

Absolutely everyone knows about the Satoshi's 1MB rule, nobody even dared to complain when it was introduced during the initial spam tests.

Now people come here crying about 4 cent fees. Keep settling your pocket changes on exchanges or in Doge, crybabies.
Satoshi said it himself he would have the limit bumped when needed, it was a non-issue for him.

Satoshi's vision is similar to Gavin's ( thats where Gavin got it i guess ) bitcoin mining will become more specialized, and thats fine, SPV client etc....

 I'm crying because bitcoin lost 6% market share in 2 months because of all this indecision  
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
February 27, 2016, 02:19:53 PM
^^^^                                                             ^^^^
sr. member
Activity: 689
Merit: 269
February 27, 2016, 02:15:54 PM
A bunch of shills on reddit and we're getting endless heated discussions, while Bitcoin operates correctly.

Everyone knew the rules for how long? 5 years? Everyone is aware of the perpetual "stress test" causing the blocks appear full.

Absolutely everyone knows about the Satoshi's 1MB rule, nobody even dared to complain when it was introduced during the initial spam tests.

Now people come here crying about 4 cent fees. Keep settling your pocket changes on exchanges or in Doge, crybabies.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
February 27, 2016, 02:11:04 PM
...
Fine. You may like other network, Paypal maybe, or Doge? Where charismatic leaders or users respectively decide what gets added.

In a cryptocurrency, miners always have the final say in what gets added and what not.
Yup.
legendary
Activity: 996
Merit: 1013
February 27, 2016, 02:08:49 PM

All of the code is properly accredited.
Where?

In the beginning of every source file.

Code:
// Copyright (c) 2009-2010 Satoshi Nakamoto
// Copyright (c) 2009-2015 The Bitcoin Core developers
// Distributed under the MIT software license, see the accompanying
// file COPYING or http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php.

Man. You don't git?
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
February 27, 2016, 02:07:49 PM
I don't like the idea of a monopoly on what gets added to bitcoin and what doesn't.

Fine. You may like other network, Paypal maybe, or Doge? Where charismatic leaders or users respectively decide what gets added.

In a cryptocurrency, miners always have the final say in what gets added and what not.
I hope this actually reflects the reality, one day.

I believe it's half true today, today miners only seem to be able to say what won't get added, they can't pull in features they would like to see ( ex 2MB blocks )
I think Bitcoin depends on this presumption. The miners absolutely could pull in features like two megabytes blocks, I think they are choosing not to just to be more diplomatic for now, which is not unwise. I think we will see two megabyte blocks, it is just a matter of time.

it's interesting to see these concepts play out in reality, thats for sure!
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