Topic: TPTB_need_war Bitcoin Fork in the making! - page 5. (Read 11460 times)

Quote from: smooth on May 17, 2016, 08:39:10 PM

Could you maybe fathom the possibility that AnonyMint is so clever he found a paradigm to legally bypass the very regulations he had been researching.

I never claimed otherwise, though frankly I doubt this is possible. Most illegal investment schemes (now) involve some form of complex obfuscation and the law is designed to, and does, ignore form (i.e. paradigm) in favor of a view toward what is actually being accomplished. However, the abstract law and what is actually prosecuted are two different things, and different people may care more about one or the other. Participants have to make their own judgements.

Then should we dredge up AnonyMint's explanation of how Monero is potentially also an illegal unregistered investment security.

And that would be relevant to this thread how exactly?

See quoted underlined, bolded.

In my particular case sure, it's more about thinking it is interesting technology (mostly PoW cryptocurrencies -- I don't consider most of the rest very interesting) and less about doing fellow man a service, though I don't mind do that either. I also enjoy the competitive multiplayer game aspect of crypto (mining, trading, etc.)

So it is the chess in you. From my perspective, I say AnonyMint is more ideologically driven. The game you are playing is swallowed by the macro game AnonyMint is interested in.

The means justifies the ends. China and Blockstream are... (don't want to be banned by the man I entrusted)

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: HONCHO on May 17, 2016, 08:36:12 PM

Could you maybe fathom the possibility that AnonyMint is so clever he found a paradigm to legally bypass the very regulations he had been researching.

I never claimed otherwise, though frankly I doubt this is possible. Most illegal investment schemes (now) involve some form of complex obfuscation and the law is designed to, and does, ignore form (i.e. paradigm) in favor of a view toward what is actually being accomplished. However, the abstract law and what is actually prosecuted are two different things, and different people may care more about one or the other. Participants have to make their own judgements.

Then should we dredge up AnonyMint's explanation of how Monero is potentially also an illegal unregistered investment security.

And that would be relevant to this thread how exactly?

Quote

Perhaps we ought to just admit crypto is nefarious and cease wearing our underwear on our heads. Ahem. Cough. Cough.

You'll get no argument from me about crypto being nefarious.

Quote

You just think the technology is cool and want to do your fellow man a service. Paint me skeptical.

In my particular case sure, it's more about thinking it is interesting technology (mostly PoW cryptocurrencies -- I don't consider most of the rest very interesting) and less about doing fellow man a service, though I don't mind do that either. I also enjoy the competitive multiplayer game aspect of crypto (mining, trading, etc.)

What I do in particular isn't relevant to anyone else though.

HONCHO

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: tokeweed on May 17, 2016, 08:32:41 PM

Could you maybe fathom the possibility that AnonyMint is so clever he found a paradigm to legally bypass the very regulations he had been researching.

I never claimed otherwise, though frankly I doubt this is possible. Most illegal investment schemes (now) involve some form of complex obfuscation and the law is designed to, and does, ignore form (i.e. paradigm) in favor of a view toward what is actually being accomplished. However, the abstract law and what is actually prosecuted are two different things, and different people may care more about one or the other. Participants have to make their own judgements.

Then should we dredge up AnonyMint's explanation of how Monero is potentially also an illegal unregistered investment security.

Perhaps we ought to just admit crypto is nefarious=Libertarian and cease wearing our underwear on our heads. Ahem. Cough. Cough.

You just think the technology is cool and want to do your fellow man a service. Paint me skeptical.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

HONCHO is online and talking 2am to 7am in the Philippines..maybe he is not anonymint, unless insomnia kicked in.

Is Anonymint from the Phillipines?

TPTB said he was from New Orleans and now living in the Phillipines.

tokeweed

legendary

Activity: 3976

Merit: 1421

Life, Love and Laughter...

Quote from: HONCHO on May 17, 2016, 07:02:22 PM

HONCHO is online and talking 2am to 7am in the Philippines..maybe he is not anonymint, unless insomnia kicked in.

Is Anonymint from the Phillipines?

Mr Felt

hero member

Activity: 493

Merit: 518

Quote from: From Above on May 17, 2016, 06:51:55 PM

I actually and truly believe that HONCHO is Satoshi Nakamoto. This is not a joke.

~CfA~

Who we were at the beginning will not confirm nor deny that speculation. The rabbit hole suspends in animation for the aforementioned 10 BTC escrowed bet.

Certain parties want to destroy my work. They will not succeed.

Hi, Craig and JVP.

tokeweed

legendary

Activity: 3976

Merit: 1421

Life, Love and Laughter...

Quote from: HONCHO on May 17, 2016, 07:24:29 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on May 17, 2016, 07:10:51 PM

It can fund you in ETH, but it doesn't mean it has to be an Ethereum project. At least that's how I understood it, which is actually the beauty of it. If contractors are requored to only to create projects in Ethereum then that would limit the potential of the DAO.

Actually thinking about the chaos I expect from enabling all the investors to manage DAO projects, this might be a perfect way to disorganize an "acoin" that is developed as the exclusive means to trade at market prices for the JAMBOX tokens being dumped by the social networking users who do not comprehend its future value.

So this might insure that JAMBOX tokens remain in the hands of the social networking users fostering the development of currency instead of dumping it to investors to play speculation hot potato.

Thanks for the clever Trojan Horse suggestion. You must play 3D chess?

Trojan horse suggestion? No, I am merely interested in the possibilities of the DAO and the future projects that might be created thru it. If you don't think it's a good idea for Jambox then that's that.

hmachado

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 250

Quote from: evergrow on May 17, 2016, 06:02:46 PM

Quote from: hmachado on May 17, 2016, 05:57:02 PM

Quote from: evergrow on May 17, 2016, 12:35:42 PM

Quote from: altcoinUK on May 17, 2016, 12:19:47 PM

Are you jl777 James the chief wanker-scammer of supernet who roll out one money party after another, the latest is the fucking WAVES scam? If yes, don't bother to reply my question.

Lol. Jl777 has absolutely nothing directly to do with Waves, nada, de niente. At least get your info right, little man Cheesy

Your post seems as if jl777 is the creator of Waves Cheesy

In Waves Topic :

Quote from: jl777 on March 05, 2016, 09:44:48 AM

I confirm that I will be advising and investing in this project, especially on methods to add BTC security to other chains and enabling asset mobility with the asset passport system.

James

Thank you, hmachado, I didn't find it. Jl777, to Waves, is indeed only an advisor and investor just like many others. He is not roll[ing] out one money party after another, the latest [being] the WAVES scam as the potty mouth teenager claimed. Cheesy

So you consider that using his name to promote Waves "advising and investing", doesnt make him a part of it?
Its not like they didnt try to take credits from everyone, but others dismissed it.

Quote from: charleshoskinson on April 12, 2016, 10:18:30 PM

Quote

Can we get some clarity why you were listed on the team page please. Also I appreciate the answers.

This is why I got so angry. There is no formal relationship. Waves should have not listed Alex as a team member. Alex nor I were consulted in this decision. Using someone's name or work to raise millions of dollars is a serious concern and should not be taken lightly.

Scorex isn't designed to be a full and secure cryptocurrency. It's a great platform for rapid experimentation, which is badly needed in academia and industry. In fact in the announcement of scorex, there was some text criticizing ICOs. It's one of the reasons I loved the project when I found it last year.

This is not a debate about open source. Not once has anyone said scorex cannot be used. It's an argument about iohk personnel being represented as employees or partners of another Venture for the purpose of raising millions of dollars. It is something that I cannot permit. I asked privately for it to stop and then had to escalate after the waves project continued to imply via proxies a relationship.

I assume it will stop now so I wish the project well and the best of luck.

Quote from: charleshoskinson on April 14, 2016, 04:00:34 AM

Cohnhead, he said it in a slack convo that was reposted here and then edited. Regardless, I brought it up over skype to him and he admitted to saying it privately in his slack group. I have the text logs. Also the reddit claims of extortion are a lie and should be publicly disavowed.

The waves project has repeatedly lied to the public. They claimed to have one of my developers working on their project. They represented scorex as a solid platform to build a cryptocurrency on top of ( which it is not). The head of the project called me delusional and attacked my character. Several of the marketers here posted links to reddit posts about me leaving ethereum to attempt to discredit me.

All of this does not change the fact that Waves currently has no product, does not have a stable governance structure, has no independent oversight of the project. They are using source code written by other people and in no way configured to do the things they have claimed.

If you want to throw your money at this garbage, then go ahead. But let me be very clear, iohk and it's partners will have nothing to do with Waves after this disgusting conduct.

HONCHO

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: john-connor on May 17, 2016, 06:01:38 PM

TPTB_need_war is an attention whore that has NEVER released a single crypto-currency algorithm for public review.

Neither have you.

I've been told by AnonyMint that you published papers with faulty, flawed, or insufficiently described algorithms.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: arielbit on May 17, 2016, 08:26:25 PM

Quote from: smooth on May 17, 2016, 08:03:18 PM

Quote from: smooth on May 17, 2016, 08:03:18 PM

HONCHO is online and talking 3am to 7am in the Philippines..maybe he is not anonymint, unless insomnia kicked in.

That means next to nothing: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/tptbneedwar-504237

Why speculate though? If people are going to use sock puppets, and they are, then it doesn't really matter who happens to be driving any particular puppet at any given time. People can switch puppets and puppets can always be passed around (which might be one explanation for the above linked chart, who knows).

You're unavoidably dealing with a forum nick and nothing any more tied to a "real identity" than that, don't assume otherwise.

(i adjusted the time 2am to 7am)....

i'm speculating that there maybe more than 1 person involved other than anonymint..

Well look at the posting times on the TPTB account (link above). They are really all over the 24 hour period. That could be multiple people or it could be someone who doesn't sleep on a consistent schedule.

arielbit

legendary

Activity: 3388

Merit: 1059

HONCHO is online and talking 3am to 7am in the Philippines..maybe he is not anonymint, unless insomnia kicked in.

That means next to nothing: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/tptbneedwar-504237

Why speculate though? If people are going to use sock puppets, and they are, then it doesn't really matter who happens to be driving any particular puppet at any given time. People can switch puppets and puppets can always be passed around (which might be one explanation for the above linked chart, who knows).

You're unavoidably dealing with a forum nick and nothing any more tied to a "real identity" than that, don't assume otherwise.

(i adjusted the time 2am to 7am)....

i'm speculating that there maybe more than 1 person involved other than anonymint..

HONCHO

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Work out the details of your own business plan, I'm too busy to dig into specifics, nor are my opinions even relevant. What matters is what you (and other participants), investors, customers, prosecutors, judges, and/or juries believe. At the moment I have none of these roles with respect to your venture.

I think the forum will miss the debates between AnonyMint and yourself. Somehow I think the forum will no longer be as informational as it was when he was around.

I am reasonably sure based on what he wrote to me today he is not coming back, not through a sock puppet or even spiritually.

I don't think you understood. AnonyMint didn't want to raise any funds via ICO and still doesn't. It was your Monero community members who said he never did anything in crypto, that motivated him to want to accelerate his work by obtaining enough funding to hire another programmer.

AnonyMint has continued to work day and night on crypto for 4 years for less than $2000 per month at the bare minimum expenses that one can survive and still be productive.

There is saying about relationships. You never know how good it was until it is gone.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: smooth on May 17, 2016, 08:04:33 PM

I'll point you TPTB's posts about "economic reality". Trading tokens from one form to another may or may not change the economic reality. The specific mechanism being used isn't necessarily important, but it also could be. As I said I made no specific claims.

How can the prior knowledge that the investors will be dependent on the independent decisions of social networking users desire to sell their coins, be construed as any form of security-of-investment secured by expectations of AnonyMint's future actions?

Where is the security?

Work out the details of your own business plan, I'm too busy to dig into specifics, nor are my opinions even relevant. What matters is what you (and other participants), investors, customers, prosecutors, judges, and/or juries believe. At the moment I have none of these roles with respect to your venture.

Quote

Could you maybe fathom the possibility that AnonyMint is so clever he found a paradigm to legally bypass the very regulations he had been researching.

I never claimed otherwise, though frankly I doubt this is possible. Most illegal investment schemes (now) involve some form of complex obfuscation and the law is designed to, and does, ignore form (i.e. paradigm) in favor of a view toward what is actually being accomplished. However, the abstract law and what is actually prosecuted are two different things, and different people may care more about one or the other. Participants have to make their own judgements.

HONCHO

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: smooth on May 17, 2016, 08:04:33 PM

I'll point you TPTB's posts about "economic reality". Trading tokens from one form to another may or may not change the economic reality. The specific mechanism being used isn't necessarily important, but it also could be. As I said I made no specific claims.

How can the prior knowledge that the investors will be dependent on the independent decisions of social networking users desire to sell their coins, be construed as any form of security-of-investment secured by expectations of AnonyMint's future actions?

Where is the security?

Could you maybe fathom the possibility that AnonyMint is so clever he found a paradigm to legally bypass the very regulations he had been researching.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: HONCHO on May 17, 2016, 08:03:30 PM

Quote from: smooth on May 17, 2016, 06:50:40 PM

I don't see anything wrong with contract work even for an ICO though, but it's easy for that to be a bit of a sham. A contract worker should be paid to do specific work as a truly independent contractor. As long as that is reality of the relationship and not a wink-wink relationship

even though it is hard to make money in crypto without some sort of scamming or association with scamming is understandable.

What lack of independence between JAMBOX's tokens and ICO tokens? Did you fail to understand that AnonyMint proposed the ICO tokens would have to be traded on the DEX for the JAMBOX tokens?

I never made any such claims.

But since you are HONCO and not TPTB, I'll point you TPTB's posts about "economic reality". Trading tokens from one form to another may or may not change the economic reality. The specific mechanism being used isn't necessarily important, but it also could be. As I said I made no specific claims.

HONCHO

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: smooth on May 17, 2016, 06:50:40 PM

I don't see anything wrong with contract work even for an ICO though, but it's easy for that to be a bit of a sham. A contract worker should be paid to do specific work as a truly independent contractor. As long as that is reality of the relationship and not a wink-wink relationship

even though it is hard to make money in crypto without some sort of scamming or association with scamming is understandable.

What lack of independence between JAMBOX's tokens and ICO tokens? Did you fail to understand that AnonyMint proposed the ICO tokens would have to be traded on the DEX for the JAMBOX tokens?

Quote from: HONCHO on May 17, 2016, 06:07:43 PM

Could you clarify for myself and the readers how the proposed "acoin" could be an ICO for AnonyMint's JAMBOX, given that AnonyMint confirmed that all of JAMBOX's crypto-currency will be distributed by unprofitable proof-of-work to the social networking users of JAMBOX?

Did you even read AnonyMint's explanation.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198