Topic: Vid of Biden admit bribe of Ukrainian Pres. to fire prosecutor investigating son - page 2. (Read 4095 times)

It doesn't make sense because you removed the statement I was responding to.




Now you're getting it.  Just because someone isn't found guilty of a crime doesn't mean they didn't commit any crimes.

You don't need to keep repeating the fact that Trump hasn't been found guilty or charged with any crimes.  I agree with you and that.  You're right. I'll say it again to be clear - Trump hasn't been found guilty of anything. 


All of your sources are from the media.  Just read the report.  The whole thing.

"So do you."

What? What the fuck does that even mean? That doesn't even make any sense linguistically let alone logically.

No one found Trump guilty of anything, but that doesn't stop you from claiming he is guilty of some undocumented unnamed crimes for years now does it? There is plenty of documentation and evidence supporting the guilt of Biden, Clinton, and Comey.

I have looked in to the "crimes", probably more than you have. Flynn, Stone, and Manafort were all convicted with manufactured charges and process crimes using extortion of their families as leverage in a pathetic and desperate attempt to get them to bear false witness against Trump in an attempt to have a duly elected president removed from office. This was all done in order to cover up their OWN criminal activity within the FBI as well as other agencies and public offices. That is called treason.

So do you.

When you plead guilty to a felony in federal court you become a convicted felon.  A felony goes on your record.  You know that though.  Why don't you stop arguing in bad faith and just come out and say the only thing you care about is if they are loyal to Trump or not.  


Biden, Clinton, Comey....all criminal who haven't even been indicted.
Flynn, Stone, Manafort... all convicted felons - but the felonies they were found guilty of by a jury don't matter and the felonies they plead guilty to don't matter because a jury didn't find them guilty.  Oh, and you aren't going to bother even looking into the actual crimes yourself.  Much easier to just google "Michael Flynn is innocent" or which and paste the first 10 results to defend him.

You keep pretending we haven't been over this multiple times. I know you are a disingenuous piece of shit because you admit the investigation was fraudulent, but you simultaneously claim the results of the investigation were valid even though they were based on extortion of not only him, but of his family. Did I mention when this was going on, he just had a grandchild? This was timed along with the birth of his grandchild so that the threat was to ruin three generations of his family's lives. You go ahead and tell me some more about admissions though to distract from the horrible crimes committed against this man and his family.

it's not alleged.  he admitted it did it.

No, that is what YOU want it to be about. It is totally a irrelevant attempt at topic sliding away from the fact that the investigations into Flynn's alleged criminal activity was based on fraud. None of the bullshit you are trying to interject matters. He didn't warn him about a security threat, which means if he actually believed he was a threat, he was putting national security at risk. You can't have it both ways. Voicing opinions on suggestions to not hire him "or something" is not the same as warning him about a potential security threat no matter how much you want to claim it is to obfuscate the situation.

Let me get this straight. I want to be sure I understand the REASONING in your argument.

Investigations of the past that are concluded, some have indictments and convictions. Investigations of the present that are active, do not have indictments and convictions.

I just don't know what to say.

Again, more qualifiers so you can distract from the point. No one said anything about convictions, still the fact remains that faking evidence to get a FISA warrant is a serious crime in spite of your dithering over the matter.

The only people who have been convicted of felonies are the ones that were being investigated by Mueller, and working for Trump.  Not even an indictment when it comes to the 'investigate the investigators' investigation.  Durham isn't done yet, so that could still change.

Yet at the same time you downplayed it by saying you don't think it was criminal activity. It was in fact not only criminal, but treasonous. Your little guessing game diversionary topic sliding is irrelevant.

The question: Why do you think Trump said he fired Flynn for lying?

The facts:
- Flynn admitted he lied about his conversation with Russian ambassador, multiple times, under oath.
- The FBI says Flynn lied.
- The DOJ says Flynn lied.
- Trump said Flynn lied.
- Trump fired Flynn.

Do you think there's a close to zero chance that Trump was just telling the truth?  That's my guess.

You and I think in very different ways.

I'm hesitant to guess at peoples' motives. Unless knowing a great deal about the people and the situation, there is zero chance of getting such a guess close to the actual motives. So I would shrug off such a thing, as a direction which was a waste of time.

You would pursue it, seeking an angle which was advantageous or supportive of something.

Trump said he fired Flynn for lying to Pence and the FBI. Why do you think he said that?

You know I already agreed it was fucked up the way the FISA warrants were handled, right?  What else do you want me to address?

You aren't trying to have a discussion, you are trying to dictate the discussion with topic sliding. Instead of responding to my evidence that this investigation was criminal activity, you want to discuss personnel choices not related to criminal activity. Regardless of what you think, Trump has already stated he plans to bring Flynn back in to the cabinet, so it is highly likely his decision to remove him was based on the same fraud the criminal investigation was.

I'm trying to have a discussion.

I responded directly to you about the fisa warrants, what I think Flynn did wrong, and I admitted there are parts of it that I"m not clear on legally.

When Trump fired Flynn he said it was for lying to the VP.  What do you think really happened?
I shared what I think most likely happened.  What do you think?

Nice strawman. Care to address any of the actual premises I presented?

When Trump fired Flynn he said it was for lying to the VP.

I think Flynn did lie about his conversations with the Russian ambassador and Trump was right to fire him for it.

What do you think really happened?

Get away with what? Not committing a crime? I like how you phrase this as if Obama was looking out for national security instead of violating it by using its intelligence networks in a criminal plot to overthrow a duly elected president. All the Rice email shows is she knew she was being set up as a patsy and wasn't having it. Of course you don't want to have a debate over "Russian collusion", because you were dead fucking wrong, it never happened, and you have no evidence to support that assertion, so lets never mind that right?

"Smoke" (whatever the fuck that means) is not a valid metric for a FISA warrant.

"FISA application requires the court find probable cause that the target of the surveillance be a "foreign power" or an "agent of a foreign power"[22] inside the United States[21] and that the places at which surveillance is requested is used or will be used by that foreign power or its agent.[22] In addition, the court must find that the proposed surveillance meet certain "minimization requirements" for information pertaining to U.S. persons.[23][21] If the foreign power’s suspected agent communicates with Americans, the communications of citizens of the United States are incidentally intercepted even though they are not the targets of the surveillance.[21]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act#Warrantless_domestic_wiretapping_program

The basis for the Flynn warrant was the investigation into the manufactured accusations of illegal Turkish lobbying ties (not anything to do with Russia).

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1120621/download

It has already been demonstrated that Flynn dutifully reported his ties to these people, and lying about it would be pointless because it was already a matter of record, and he knew this. This the entire warrant "probable cause" was nothing more than an illegal manufactured parallel construction in order to violate protections for wiretapping laws of US citizens. Lying to obtain FISA warrants is a crime. Illegally spying is a crime. Attempting to unseat a duly elected president is treason. "Is that a crime?" you ask? Yes, one punishable by death.