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Topic: Vid of Biden admit bribe of Ukrainian Pres. to fire prosecutor investigating son - page 7. (Read 4095 times)

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2071
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There's an acronym for "circumstantial proof." It's "BS." Anybody can agree to say anything... like the moon is made of green cheese. It's circumstantial proof.

Circumstantial evidence is often weighed equally as direct evidence.  Judges often tell jurys this, otherwise nobody would ever be convicted.

The common example is "If you walk outside and there's snow everywhere, do you ask yourself 'hmmm, maybe it snowed, but I didn't actually see it snow, so I can't be sure, maybe a bunch of guys came and spread snow all over my yard while I was sleeping...'

It snowed.  But you only have circumstantial proof of it.

Insisting on direct evidence to prove you wrong is that flat earthers do.


There's an acronym for "circumstantial proof." It's "BS." Anybody can agree to say anything... like the moon is made of green cheese. It's circumstantial proof.

Get them on the stand, with a verified copy of the subpoena, and under oath or affirmation, that it was served. Include the a copy of the Service affidavit, with the affidavit-maker attesting to it "viva voce" on the stand.

All the BS that these subpoena people are doing is to get Trump or some of his people to be scared and cave in.

Cool

This would all be circumstantial evidence.

 Cool

As it is, people get convicted for nothing all over the place. Minor usage of drugs is an example of this, simply because people don't know how to require to face their accuser.

A few, like O.J. Simpson at his first trial, know how to require proof. That's why he won at first.

The witness of a man under oath, with evidence to back him up, is not circumstantial. It's fact until someone contests it with better fact. Then it's perjury.

Without the evidence and the speaking under oath, all we have is hearsay.

Cool




You're right.  I was wrong about that.  A direct witness is considered direct evidence in court.

Still though, circumstantial evidence can be weighted equally.  "I saw him shoot the girl" and "I heard the gun shot, and turned around and saw him holding the gun and she was on the ground across the room, and there was nobody else in the building" are equally strong.  You can't just dismiss is because it's 'circumstantial'.

And apparently you can't just accept it because it's direct, since you have to take the credibility of the witness into account.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
There's an acronym for "circumstantial proof." It's "BS." Anybody can agree to say anything... like the moon is made of green cheese. It's circumstantial proof.

Circumstantial evidence is often weighed equally as direct evidence.  Judges often tell jurys this, otherwise nobody would ever be convicted.

The common example is "If you walk outside and there's snow everywhere, do you ask yourself 'hmmm, maybe it snowed, but I didn't actually see it snow, so I can't be sure, maybe a bunch of guys came and spread snow all over my yard while I was sleeping...'

It snowed.  But you only have circumstantial proof of it.

Insisting on direct evidence to prove you wrong is that flat earthers do.


There's an acronym for "circumstantial proof." It's "BS." Anybody can agree to say anything... like the moon is made of green cheese. It's circumstantial proof.

Get them on the stand, with a verified copy of the subpoena, and under oath or affirmation, that it was served. Include the a copy of the Service affidavit, with the affidavit-maker attesting to it "viva voce" on the stand.

All the BS that these subpoena people are doing is to get Trump or some of his people to be scared and cave in.

Cool

This would all be circumstantial evidence.

 Cool

As it is, people get convicted for nothing all over the place. Minor usage of drugs is an example of this, simply because people don't know how to require to face their accuser.

A few, like O.J. Simpson at his first trial, know how to require proof. That's why he won at first.

The witness of a man under oath, with evidence to back him up, is not circumstantial. It's fact until someone contests it with better fact. Then it's perjury.

Without the evidence and the speaking under oath, all we have is hearsay.

Cool


legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2071
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
There's an acronym for "circumstantial proof." It's "BS." Anybody can agree to say anything... like the moon is made of green cheese. It's circumstantial proof.

Circumstantial evidence is often weighed equally as direct evidence.  Judges often tell jurys this, otherwise nobody would ever be convicted.

The common example is "If you walk outside and there's snow everywhere, do you ask yourself 'hmmm, maybe it snowed, but I didn't actually see it snow, so I can't be sure, maybe a bunch of guys came and spread snow all over my yard while I was sleeping...'

It snowed.  But you only have circumstantial proof of it.

Insisting on direct evidence to prove you wrong is that flat earthers do.


There's an acronym for "circumstantial proof." It's "BS." Anybody can agree to say anything... like the moon is made of green cheese. It's circumstantial proof.

Get them on the stand, with a verified copy of the subpoena, and under oath or affirmation, that it was served. Include the a copy of the Service affidavit, with the affidavit-maker attesting to it "viva voce" on the stand.

All the BS that these subpoena people are doing is to get Trump or some of his people to be scared and cave in.

Cool

This would all be circumstantial evidence.

 Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
the subpoenas issued to the executive
The DOD is part of the executive branch. The subpoena was issued to someone from the DOD, thus the "executive". The DOD also used "executive privilege" in their bitch letter.

DOJ is part of the executive branch. Subpoenas were issued to them to get unredacted grand jury testimony from the Mueler report as part of the impeachment inquiry. The executive made the same sort of arguments and they've lost the case on multiple points. Course it's not going to be completely resolved until some time next year but it will most likely come down to the main point of whether or not the private information can be made available and nothing to do with whether the subpoena or request is legal or not.

controlled by your emotions and are unable to rely on logic.
Says the person who will not admit he was wrong about there being no subpoenas issued at all or that there is a high degree of at least circumstantial proof that the the Rudy/Pompeo subpoenas exist given they've said they do. That's some awesome high level reasoning and logic coming from you.

There's an acronym for "circumstantial proof." It's "BS." Anybody can agree to say anything... like the moon is made of green cheese. It's circumstantial proof.

Get them on the stand, with a verified copy of the subpoena, and under oath or affirmation, that it was served. Include the a copy of the Service affidavit, with the affidavit-maker attesting to it "viva voce" on the stand.

All the BS that these subpoena people are doing is to get Trump or some of his people to be scared and cave in.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 320
the subpoenas issued to the executive
The DOD is part of the executive branch. The subpoena was issued to someone from the DOD, thus the "executive". The DOD also used "executive privilege" in their bitch letter.

DOJ is part of the executive branch. Subpoenas were issued to them to get unredacted grand jury testimony from the Mueler report as part of the impeachment inquiry. The executive made the same sort of arguments and they've lost the case on multiple points. Course it's not going to be completely resolved until some time next year but it will most likely come down to the main point of whether or not the private information can be made available and nothing to do with whether the subpoena or request is legal or not.

controlled by your emotions and are unable to rely on logic.
Says the person who will not admit he was wrong about there being no subpoenas issued at all or that there is a high degree of at least circumstantial proof that the the Rudy/Pompeo subpoenas exist given they've said they do. That's some awesome high level reasoning and logic coming from you.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
No it is exactly the same issue from the start. Whether they are legitimate or not depends explicitly upon who they are issued to as the executive and legislative branches are co-equal. You still haven't produced the subpoenas under dispute no matter how thirsty you are to craft this tertiary bullshit into a win.

See? This is what I was talking about. You are worming your way out of having to admit you were wrong about no subpoenas being produced by the house and shifting the focus to obfuscate this fact.

You keep getting proven wrong, and then shifting the debate to something else, and then you are proven wrong there, so you shift it again.

For someone who talks such a huge game your knowledge of these issues is very superficial.

I feel like you're just trolling us at this point so I'm bowing out. Its impossible to debate someone when they are incapable of debating honestly.

This was the initial premise. If there is any worming going on it is you worming your way out of the burden of proof that the subpoenas issued to the executive were valid or even ever existed. Goodbye for now until you bow out again when you can't restrain yourself and or you run out of arguments.


Meanwhile, after being presented with documents in another thread:

OOO court documents, very official! Clearly everything you say is true, you referenced official court documents after all.


Thanks for proving once again you are completely unable to separate politics discussed here from forum issues. You belong nowhere near any trust lists as you are controlled by your emotions and are unable to rely on logic.


legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2071
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Meanwhile, after being presented with documents in another thread:

OOO court documents, very official! Clearly everything you say is true, you referenced official court documents after all.





legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
The whole premise of the conflict to begin with was whether House issued subpoenas served to the executive branch were legitimate or not, but don't let that stop you from jerking each other off in public.

No, it absolutely wasn't. You upped the ante from not being able to produce the Pompeo or Giuliani subpoenas to any subpoena related to the impeachment. Now you are doing some backtracking and while admitting the subpoenas exist you are now claiming they are not legitimate. That's an entirely different issue, one which I'm sure you know better than the house committees that issued the subpoenas. Whether or not you feel they are "legitimate" is besides the point.

Of course you can't even produce a document even resembling a subpoena from The House regarding impeachment before October 31st 2019.

Feel free to worm around some more.

No it is exactly the same issue from the start. Whether they are legitimate or not depends explicitly upon who they are issued to as the executive and legislative branches are co-equal. You still haven't produced the subpoenas under dispute no matter how thirsty you are to craft this tertiary bullshit into a win.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
Of course you can't even produce a document even resembling a subpoena from The House regarding impeachment before October 31st 2019.

DOD letter of the 22nd bitching about her subpoena...
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ukraine-clearinghouse-2019.10.22.WH-letter-to-Cooper.pdf

Her subpoena, dated Oct 21st for her to show up on the 23rd. Just so you don't miss that, that was before that 31st requirement you magically added one day in order to give yourself more "outs".
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ukraine-clearinghouse-2019.10.23.Cooper-subpoena.pdf

Her transcript from her deposition on the 23rd.
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/CPRT-116-IG00-D012.pdf

Can you shut up now about subpoenas? I'm sure though that you'll come up with some new bullshit issue about it all.


Good job, you can re-present information already presented. This discussion was always about executive branch subpoenas and their validity. You go ahead and use your topic sliding to call it an "out" if you like. I was very specific because you are extremely predictable and I know you would pull some tertiary bullshit like this out and claim it is proof. You think they are different than "legal subpoenas" anyway, so I am not too worried about your expert criticism no matter how much you and your entourage stroke each other off.

You've claimed they didn't issue any "real" subpoenas prior to Oct 31st. You've made blanket statements about that. You were just shown one proving you're wrong and you can try and twist it how you wish but that doesn't change the fact..

Obviously he was wrong. He just has a pathological inability to admit when he is wrong about something. Its utterly bizarre.

Of course you can't even produce a document even resembling a subpoena from The House regarding impeachment before October 31st 2019.

Such a document was indeed produced:

https://i.imgur.com/TDa6SiS.png

Let's dissect this piece-by-piece:

-document resembling a subpoena ✔
-from The House ✔
-regarding impeachment ✔
-before October 31st 2019 ✔

Now I'm sure TS will say, "Oh but I didn't mean that, I meant this or this," because again, he has this clinical, almost neuropathologically-driven inability to admit when he was wrong.

The whole premise of the conflict to begin with was whether House issued subpoenas served to the executive branch were legitimate or not, but don't let that stop you from jerking each other off in public.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
You've claimed they didn't issue any "real" subpoenas prior to Oct 31st. You've made blanket statements about that. You were just shown one proving you're wrong and you can try and twist it how you wish but that doesn't change the fact..

Yeah. I'm not going to bother with that "legal" thing again. Not my problem if you didn't comprehend what I was referring to at the time. I will give you that it was a poor choice of word on my part but given the context of the conversation at the time it should be been obvious what I meant anyway.

TL;DR

"What you meant is irrelevant, what I meant is obvious."
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 320
Of course you can't even produce a document even resembling a subpoena from The House regarding impeachment before October 31st 2019.

DOD letter of the 22nd bitching about her subpoena...
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ukraine-clearinghouse-2019.10.22.WH-letter-to-Cooper.pdf

Her subpoena, dated Oct 21st for her to show up on the 23rd. Just so you don't miss that, that was before that 31st requirement you magically added one day in order to give yourself more "outs".
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ukraine-clearinghouse-2019.10.23.Cooper-subpoena.pdf

Her transcript from her deposition on the 23rd.
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/CPRT-116-IG00-D012.pdf

Can you shut up now about subpoenas? I'm sure though that you'll come up with some new bullshit issue about it all.


Good job, you can re-present information already presented. This discussion was always about executive branch subpoenas and their validity. You go ahead and use your topic sliding to call it an "out" if you like. I was very specific because you are extremely predictable and I know you would pull some tertiary bullshit like this out and claim it is proof. You think they are different than "legal subpoenas" anyway, so I am not too worried about your expert criticism no matter how much you and your entourage stroke each other off.

You've claimed they didn't issue any "real" subpoenas prior to Oct 31st. You've made blanket statements about that. You were just shown one proving you're wrong and you can try and twist it how you wish but that doesn't change the fact..

Yeah. I'm not going to bother with that "legal" thing again. Not my problem if you didn't comprehend what I was referring to at the time. I will give you that it was a poor choice of word on my part but given the context of the conversation at the time it should be been obvious what I meant anyway.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 320
Of course you can't even produce a document even resembling a subpoena from The House regarding impeachment before October 31st 2019.

DOD letter of the 22nd bitching about her subpoena...
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ukraine-clearinghouse-2019.10.22.WH-letter-to-Cooper.pdf

Her subpoena, dated Oct 21st for her to show up on the 23rd. Just so you don't miss that, that was before that 31st requirement you magically added one day in order to give yourself more "outs".
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ukraine-clearinghouse-2019.10.23.Cooper-subpoena.pdf

Her transcript from her deposition on the 23rd.
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/CPRT-116-IG00-D012.pdf

Can you shut up now about subpoenas? I'm sure though that you'll come up with some new bullshit issue about it all.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
I see, so you aren't concluding it is "propaganda" before even reading it? Good show.
You clearly have reading comprehension issues if you think that's what I was saying. Try again.


@TECSHARE
Try slowing down a little in your answers... so folks like Viper1 can follow what you are saying.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 320
I see, so you aren't concluding it is "propaganda" before even reading it? Good show.
You clearly have reading comprehension issues if you think that's what I was saying. Try again.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
What I did do is quickly skim over them but haven't dug into them to see what's really there. Either way, I'm not the one posting things that say they contain something they may not. I didn't see anything about those things during my skim through them which is why I didn't say anything definitive about it at the time. I could have done what some of  you do is just make claims about things that then wouldn't be backed up with fact, and then refuse to admit I was wrong or could be wrong. Cause it's all about spreading propaganda as opposed to any truth right?

TL;DR

"I didn't read the source documents. Your conclusions are propaganda and my conclusions are truth."
Didn't make any conclusions and don't have any at this point. You just like to twist things to mislead etc in order to suit your agenda.




I see, so you aren't concluding it is "propaganda" before even reading it? Good show.


Didn't make any conclusions and don't have any at this point. You just like to twist things to mislead etc in order to suit your agenda.

Don't waste your time. This is what he does, every time he opens a thread here:

1. Posts some misleading b.s. from a disreputable source and declares it to be fact.
2. Defends his b.s. by conducting a series of long-winded personal attacks against anyone who questions the source.
3. Claims victory when people get tired of attempting to help him to understand how he is wrong.

That's all he's ever done. It's all he'll ever do. Whenever TS posts a new topic here, just assume the opposite is true, and then watch his wrongness unfold in more ways than was previously imaginable.

When I saw him open this thread, I knew Trump must be in some serious shit. And lo and behold, he is. Meanwhile Biden has his biggest lead in the primary polls since Sept. 2nd. Whatever TS was hoping to unfold over the last month, the exact opposite has happened.

For posterity:

Oh plenty will come of this, don't worry cupcake. Biden's legacy is over, and many other high level officials are going to face prosecution. You argue about meaningless peripheral issues all you like. The truth is coming out, and your butt is going to be so hurt you are going to suffer a prolapse from the sheer force of your head being yanked out of your ass when the news breaks.

When's the news going to break TS?



You honestly still believe Trump isn't going to be impeached?

When is it going to happen Nutilduhhhhhhhh? When are you going to produce those subpoenas. When is the proof of the Russia collusion coming out? The proof against Kavanaugh? How far do you want to go back? Seems to me like you are projecting your way down your own list.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
Didn't make any conclusions and don't have any at this point. You just like to twist things to mislead etc in order to suit your agenda.

Don't waste your time. This is what he does, every time he opens a thread here:

1. Posts some misleading b.s. from a disreputable source and declares it to be fact.
2. Defends his b.s. by conducting a series of long-winded personal attacks against anyone who questions the source.
3. Claims victory when people get tired of attempting to help him to understand how he is wrong.

That's all he's ever done. It's all he'll ever do. Whenever TS posts a new topic here, just assume the opposite is true, and then watch his wrongness unfold in more ways than was previously imaginable.

When I saw him open this thread, I knew Trump must be in some serious shit. And lo and behold, he is. Meanwhile Biden has his biggest lead in the primary polls since Sept. 2nd. Whatever TS was hoping to unfold over the last month, the exact opposite has happened.

For posterity:

Oh plenty will come of this, don't worry cupcake. Biden's legacy is over, and many other high level officials are going to face prosecution. You argue about meaningless peripheral issues all you like. The truth is coming out, and your butt is going to be so hurt you are going to suffer a prolapse from the sheer force of your head being yanked out of your ass when the news breaks.

When's the news going to break TS?

Right. Don't wast your time. All you have is hearsay. All TECSHARE is trying to do is show everybody that it is hearsay.

Listen to TECSHARE for your own good. Find what is real, not what is hearsay. Otherwise your hearsay is going to mess you all up in many different ways.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 320
What I did do is quickly skim over them but haven't dug into them to see what's really there. Either way, I'm not the one posting things that say they contain something they may not. I didn't see anything about those things during my skim through them which is why I didn't say anything definitive about it at the time. I could have done what some of  you do is just make claims about things that then wouldn't be backed up with fact, and then refuse to admit I was wrong or could be wrong. Cause it's all about spreading propaganda as opposed to any truth right?

TL;DR

"I didn't read the source documents. Your conclusions are propaganda and my conclusions are truth."
Didn't make any conclusions and don't have any at this point. You just like to twist things to mislead etc in order to suit your agenda.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
What I did do is quickly skim over them but haven't dug into them to see what's really there. Either way, I'm not the one posting things that say they contain something they may not. I didn't see anything about those things during my skim through them which is why I didn't say anything definitive about it at the time. I could have done what some of  you do is just make claims about things that then wouldn't be backed up with fact, and then refuse to admit I was wrong or could be wrong. Cause it's all about spreading propaganda as opposed to any truth right?

TL;DR

"I didn't read the source documents. Your conclusions are propaganda and my conclusions are truth."
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