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Topic: Vid of Biden admit bribe of Ukrainian Pres. to fire prosecutor investigating son - page 3. (Read 4095 times)

legendary
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I do know she emailed herself to document what she was told, and the most likely explanation for that is she didn't believe what she was told, and didn't want to be the one held responsible for these crimes.

I don't know for sure either, and I do agree that this was her covering her ass, but I just don't see how this could be interpreted as Rice trying not to become the fall guy for Obama.  It looks more like she was literally just keeping the record straight.

By law, her notes - and literally any other notes or emails involving the President or VP belongs in the Presidential records with plans to eventually be made public.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think on her last day of work (Inaguration) she was taking care of the last of whatever it takes to put things in the record.  I assume Obama, Biden and Comey all know how the system works and expected there to be a record of their meeting, like every other meeting.  I bet Comey filed a memo also considering it was one of the few times they ever spoke.

The reason that is a big deal is because if they had information to support the claim that Flynn was working with the Russians, they had no excuse to not inform the incoming president about this so he could take precautions. So in the end this is not just about keeping Flynn in the dark, it is about keeping the president in the dark. If they really believed Flynn did this, they would intentionally be risking national security to go after Trump by not informing him. You can't have it both ways.

It was about whether or not they could trust Flynn with sensitive information regarding Russia.

It was already known that there were connections between Trump, his family, his campaign and Russia.  In Flynns case, he was fired by Obama in 2014 as head of the DIA and a few months later was being paid by RT and having dinner with Putin.

Isn't that alone enough for Obama to ask Comey 'should I worry about what we hand over to Flynn about Russia right now?'.  I know it was only a couple weeks left, but he was still President and responsible for the country.  And he did reportedly warn Trump about Flynn.  Told him not to hire him.  Chris Christie (when he was head of transition) also said he was a train wreck waiting to happen or something.

If this is not her covering her ass from becoming the fall guy, what is she covering her ass from exactly? Please do tell me the liability you think she is concerned about. Of course the emails are part of the record, that is why she emailed herself explicitly to make it part of public record. Not all meetings are transcribed and recorded.

Yes, we get it, that is the pretext for the Flynn investigation. That still doesn't explain what evidence they had to get the warrant to begin with, and still doesn't explain why they did not inform Trump so he could take precautions to protect national security. Either they thought Flynn was a real threat or they didn't. Either they believed him to be a security risk, and put national security at risk to go after Trump by not informing him, or they knew it was a baseless illegal warrant used as pretext to go after Trump. Telling him not to hire him is not the same as briefing him on a potential security threat, one which never existed by the way.

There are ZERO documented connections involving ANY criminal activity linking the Trump campaign and Russia. This claim is based on 3 years of baseless investigation relying upon illegal warrants and media hype. There is no substance behind any of these claims. You can swear up and down there are but you can't actually ever provide any evidence of it. That makes this whole freak show A TOTALLY ILLEGAL PARTISAN OPERATION utilizing the intelligence and surveillance apparatus of this nation in a criminal attempt to target a duly elected sitting president by the outgoing administration. This is unprecedented criminal behavior putting the very nation itself at risk by threatening the peaceful transition of power that marks an actual democracy.

I think it's possible that Obama truly did make an effort to put a wall between himself and any criminal investigation into ties between Trump campaign and Russia and focus only the National Security side of things.  There's obviously a bit of overlap, which makes things tricky and all the more reason to make the record very clear the motivations for his actions.

The now public Rice email seems to be doing just that.  

You're right about the Warrant thing.  The FISA system is a mess and the FBI basically just exploited it.  I don't want to have another Russia collusion debate on what we learned years later, but I agree with you that in Jan 2017 the FBI did not have solid evidence that a crime was committed.  There was smoke though.  And the FISA warrants had nothing to do with spying on Russians.  We have to spy on Russia.

I'm not sure if you believe it or not, but let's assume for sake of argument that the FBI had intercepted a call between Flynn and Russian Ambassador where Flynn told the Ambassador not to worry about the sanctions.

Is that a crime?  I honestly don't know.  I do think it's a big deal though.  A retired 3 star general who had served as director of the DIA (basically the CIA for just the military) under Obama for 2 years, undermining the administration by telling our enemy not to worry about the sanctions his president had just applied.

If all that really happened, what's the right thing to do?

And what do you do when you see Flynn lie about it to Pence and Spicer, who turned around and told the Nation?

In hindsight, they probably just should've let Flynn get away with it.  But at the time they didn't know what else Flynn, the National Security Advisor to the President, was lying about.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
I do know she emailed herself to document what she was told, and the most likely explanation for that is she didn't believe what she was told, and didn't want to be the one held responsible for these crimes.

I don't know for sure either, and I do agree that this was her covering her ass, but I just don't see how this could be interpreted as Rice trying not to become the fall guy for Obama.  It looks more like she was literally just keeping the record straight.

By law, her notes - and literally any other notes or emails involving the President or VP belongs in the Presidential records with plans to eventually be made public.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think on her last day of work (Inaguration) she was taking care of the last of whatever it takes to put things in the record.  I assume Obama, Biden and Comey all know how the system works and expected there to be a record of their meeting, like every other meeting.  I bet Comey filed a memo also considering it was one of the few times they ever spoke.

The reason that is a big deal is because if they had information to support the claim that Flynn was working with the Russians, they had no excuse to not inform the incoming president about this so he could take precautions. So in the end this is not just about keeping Flynn in the dark, it is about keeping the president in the dark. If they really believed Flynn did this, they would intentionally be risking national security to go after Trump by not informing him. You can't have it both ways.

It was about whether or not they could trust Flynn with sensitive information regarding Russia.

It was already known that there were connections between Trump, his family, his campaign and Russia.  In Flynns case, he was fired by Obama in 2014 as head of the DIA and a few months later was being paid by RT and having dinner with Putin.

Isn't that alone enough for Obama to ask Comey 'should I worry about what we hand over to Flynn about Russia right now?'.  I know it was only a couple weeks left, but he was still President and responsible for the country.  And he did reportedly warn Trump about Flynn.  Told him not to hire him.  Chris Christie (when he was head of transition) also said he was a train wreck waiting to happen or something.

If this is not her covering her ass from becoming the fall guy, what is she covering her ass from exactly? Please do tell me the liability you think she is concerned about. Of course the emails are part of the record, that is why she emailed herself explicitly to make it part of public record. Not all meetings are transcribed and recorded.

Yes, we get it, that is the pretext for the Flynn investigation. That still doesn't explain what evidence they had to get the warrant to begin with, and still doesn't explain why they did not inform Trump so he could take precautions to protect national security. Either they thought Flynn was a real threat or they didn't. Either they believed him to be a security risk, and put national security at risk to go after Trump by not informing him, or they knew it was a baseless illegal warrant used as pretext to go after Trump. Telling him not to hire him is not the same as briefing him on a potential security threat, one which never existed by the way.

There are ZERO documented connections involving ANY criminal activity linking the Trump campaign and Russia. This claim is based on 3 years of baseless investigation relying upon illegal warrants and media hype. There is no substance behind any of these claims. You can swear up and down there are but you can't actually ever provide any evidence of it. That makes this whole freak show A TOTALLY ILLEGAL PARTISAN OPERATION utilizing the intelligence and surveillance apparatus of this nation in a criminal attempt to target a duly elected sitting president by the outgoing administration. This is unprecedented criminal behavior putting the very nation itself at risk by threatening the peaceful transition of power that marks an actual democracy.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2071
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I do know she emailed herself to document what she was told, and the most likely explanation for that is she didn't believe what she was told, and didn't want to be the one held responsible for these crimes.

I don't know for sure either, and I do agree that this was her covering her ass, but I just don't see how this could be interpreted as Rice trying not to become the fall guy for Obama.  It looks more like she was literally just keeping the record straight.

By law, her notes - and literally any other notes or emails involving the President or VP belongs in the Presidential records with plans to eventually be made public.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think on her last day of work (Inaguration) she was taking care of the last of whatever it takes to put things in the record.  I assume Obama, Biden and Comey all know how the system works and expected there to be a record of their meeting, like every other meeting.  I bet Comey filed a memo also considering it was one of the few times they ever spoke.

The reason that is a big deal is because if they had information to support the claim that Flynn was working with the Russians, they had no excuse to not inform the incoming president about this so he could take precautions. So in the end this is not just about keeping Flynn in the dark, it is about keeping the president in the dark. If they really believed Flynn did this, they would intentionally be risking national security to go after Trump by not informing him. You can't have it both ways.

It was about whether or not they could trust Flynn with sensitive information regarding Russia.

It was already known that there were connections between Trump, his family, his campaign and Russia.  In Flynns case, he was fired by Obama in 2014 as head of the DIA and a few months later was being paid by RT and having dinner with Putin.

Isn't that alone enough for Obama to ask Comey 'should I worry about what we hand over to Flynn about Russia right now?'.  I know it was only a couple weeks left, but he was still President and responsible for the country.  And he did reportedly warn Trump about Flynn.  Told him not to hire him.  Chris Christie (when he was head of transition) also said he was a train wreck waiting to happen or something.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
Just to be clear, do you think the truth is the opposite of what she said in her email to herself?  How did the declassified paragraph change anything then?  Everything else was declassified in 2018.

The article you linked, and much of the right wing media are making the 'smoking gun' out to be the fact that Obama and Comey discussed the possibility of limiting the amount of classified information involving Russia that Flynn was exposed to during the transition.

The email just documents what she was told. Like I said, this is her covering her ass. I don't know what she was told. I do know she emailed herself to document what she was told, and the most likely explanation for that is she didn't believe what she was told, and didn't want to be the one held responsible for these crimes.

The reason that is a big deal is because if they had information to support the claim that Flynn was working with the Russians, they had no excuse to not inform the incoming president about this so he could take precautions. So in the end this is not just about keeping Flynn in the dark, it is about keeping the president in the dark. If they really believed Flynn did this, they would intentionally be risking national security to go after Trump by not informing him. You can't have it both ways.

Now before you go right to saying they suspected him too, there is zero evidence to support any claim that Trump was involved with anything illegal involving the Russians after three years of endless investigations. The actions they took required warrants. Warrants require evidence. There is no evidence therefore the warrants were criminal acts under color of law.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2071
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"Declassified Rice Email Confirms Obama, Biden And Comey Targeted Flynn"

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/declassified-rice-email-confirms-obama-biden-and-comey-targeted-flynn

Here's the declassified part:

"Director Comey affirmed that he is proceeding ‘by the book’ as it relates to law enforcement. From a national security perspective, Comey said he does have some concerns that incoming NSA Flynn is speaking frequently with Russian Ambassador Kislyak. Comey said that could be an issue as it relates to sharing sensitive information. President Obama asked if Comey was saying that the NSC should not pass sensitive information related to Russia to Flynn. Comey replied ‘potentially.’ He added that he has no indication thus far that Flynn has passed classified information to Kislyak, but he noted that ‘the level of communication is unusual.'"\

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000172-2e48-d57a-ad7b-7e6f97060000

They were discussing whether or not to give Flynn classified information before Trump took office.

The email points to Obama not wanting to have anything to do with the law enforcement side of things.  Just the National Security stuff.

"The President stressed that he is not asking about, initiating or instructing anything from a law enforcement perspective. He reiterated that law enforcement team needs to proceed as it normally would by the book."

Thanks for demonstrating how lost you are. This declassified email is what you call "covering your ass". Rice was put in a position to speak for these people in a way that put her in liability, they were attempting to use her as a patsy. She predicted this eventuality based on the nature of the illegal investigation, as a result, she sent this email TO HERSELF to provide an out in case this was in fact investigated. Who sends emails to themselves?

Just to be clear, do you think the truth is the opposite of what she said in her email to herself?  How did the declassified paragraph change anything then?  Everything else was declassified in 2018.

The article you linked, and much of the right wing media are making the 'smoking gun' out to be the fact that Obama and Comey discussed the possibility of limiting the amount of classified information involving Russia that Flynn was exposed to during the transition.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
"Declassified Rice Email Confirms Obama, Biden And Comey Targeted Flynn"

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/declassified-rice-email-confirms-obama-biden-and-comey-targeted-flynn

Here's the declassified part:

"Director Comey affirmed that he is proceeding ‘by the book’ as it relates to law enforcement. From a national security perspective, Comey said he does have some concerns that incoming NSA Flynn is speaking frequently with Russian Ambassador Kislyak. Comey said that could be an issue as it relates to sharing sensitive information. President Obama asked if Comey was saying that the NSC should not pass sensitive information related to Russia to Flynn. Comey replied ‘potentially.’ He added that he has no indication thus far that Flynn has passed classified information to Kislyak, but he noted that ‘the level of communication is unusual.'"\

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000172-2e48-d57a-ad7b-7e6f97060000

They were discussing whether or not to give Flynn classified information before Trump took office.

The email points to Obama not wanting to have anything to do with the law enforcement side of things.  Just the National Security stuff.

"The President stressed that he is not asking about, initiating or instructing anything from a law enforcement perspective. He reiterated that law enforcement team needs to proceed as it normally would by the book."

Thanks for demonstrating how lost you are. This declassified email is what you call "covering your ass". Rice was put in a position to speak for these people in a way that put her in liability, they were attempting to use her as a patsy. She predicted this eventuality based on the nature of the illegal investigation, as a result, she sent this email TO HERSELF to provide an out in case this was in fact investigated. Who sends emails to themselves?
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
"Phone Calls Between Biden And Ukraine's Poroshenko Leaked; Details $1 Billion "Quid Pro Quo" To Fire Burisma Prosecutor"

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/phone-calls-between-quid-pro-joe-biden-and-ukraines-poroshenko-leak-explicitly-details
Ahaha... Waiting for another bunch of "Total BS" comments.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2071
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
"Declassified Rice Email Confirms Obama, Biden And Comey Targeted Flynn"

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/declassified-rice-email-confirms-obama-biden-and-comey-targeted-flynn

Here's the declassified part:

"Director Comey affirmed that he is proceeding ‘by the book’ as it relates to law enforcement. From a national security perspective, Comey said he does have some concerns that incoming NSA Flynn is speaking frequently with Russian Ambassador Kislyak. Comey said that could be an issue as it relates to sharing sensitive information. President Obama asked if Comey was saying that the NSC should not pass sensitive information related to Russia to Flynn. Comey replied ‘potentially.’ He added that he has no indication thus far that Flynn has passed classified information to Kislyak, but he noted that ‘the level of communication is unusual.'"\

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000172-2e48-d57a-ad7b-7e6f97060000

They were discussing whether or not to give Flynn classified information before Trump took office.

The email points to Obama not wanting to have anything to do with the law enforcement side of things.  Just the National Security stuff.

"The President stressed that he is not asking about, initiating or instructing anything from a law enforcement perspective. He reiterated that law enforcement team needs to proceed as it normally would by the book."
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
"Phone Calls Between Biden And Ukraine's Poroshenko Leaked; Details $1 Billion "Quid Pro Quo" To Fire Burisma Prosecutor"

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/phone-calls-between-quid-pro-joe-biden-and-ukraines-poroshenko-leak-explicitly-details



"Senate GOP Compile Massive Subpoena List For FBI Abuse Probe; Demand Unredacted Susan Rice Letter"

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/senate-gop-compile-massive-subpoena-list-fbi-abuse-probe-demand-unredacted-susan-rice



"Declassified Rice Email Confirms Obama, Biden And Comey Targeted Flynn"

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/declassified-rice-email-confirms-obama-biden-and-comey-targeted-flynn
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1285
Flying Hellfish is a Commie
"$3.5 Billion Missing, Obama Administration Covered Up"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zDzM9xYJKU

That's enough to build THE WALL!

Hm, this is interesting. Haven't seen it anywhere else. Seems weird that none of this has hit any of the news as it is already 3 months or so old, makes me question the fact that not even Fox News has even covered it. I mean Giuliani does say in this piece that this money was unaccounted for, not stolen. He alleges that SOME of it was stolen, some of it was this and that.

He also says that some of the money was going to left wing causes, which while despicable, I assume is the case for EVERY single administration.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
Oh plenty will come of this, don't worry cupcake. Biden's legacy is over, and many other high level officials are going to face prosecution. You argue about meaningless peripheral issues all you like. The truth is coming out, and your butt is going to be so hurt you are going to suffer a prolapse from the sheer force of your head being yanked out of your ass when the news breaks.


legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
"$3.5 Billion Missing, Obama Administration Covered Up"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zDzM9xYJKU
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
DONNA WARREN
@DonnaWR8
   
" ‘I have the memo that shows Hunter Biden was engaged in a 14.6 million dollar MONEY LAUNDERING scheme. The prosecutor got that 3 days before he was fired. The prosecutor has been POISONED. ... He was POISONED with MERCURY. Never even covered in the American press.’ "
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
"The Other Biden Problem: James Biden Now Facing Allegations Of Influence Peddling"

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/03/10/the-other-biden-problem-james-biden-now-facing-allegations-of-influence-peddling/


Semi-related:

"Joe Biden: Father of the Drug War's Asset Forfeiture Program"

https://mises.org/wire/joe-biden-father-drug-wars-asset-forfeiture-program
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2071
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I agree with all of this.

But I have a hard time believing that the reason Biden hasn't been indicted yet is because Trump is worried about what he'll be accused of.

I think they either don't have a strong enough case to give to a grand jury, or, if they do, they are holding it back till we are closer to either the DNC or general election.

The first scenario seems way more probable, and I think it's likely the same reason Hillary, Comey, Mcgahn and anyone else he's promised to lock up years ago hasen't even been charged.

However, I wouldn't put it past him to have sealed indictments on all of them already.  Imagine the impact of a July/August front page with all of them in hand cuffs.
Very unlikely there's enough evidence, and Trump probably wouldn't be able to contain himself if there was.

Or perhaps you are simply underestimating the scope and impact that these indictments will have. If he did it too soon, he would risk starting a civil war. This was the entire point of pushing the Russia collusion narrative from day one, to make it look like he was the one engaging in a coop as opposed to resisting one.

First I've heard the 'civil war risk too high to indict the Dems' theory...at what point does indicting Biden not risk starting a civil war?  Wouldn't the chances be going up, not down, the closer we get to the election?

edit: You may have mentioned it as a reason Hillary hasn't been locked up yet now that I think about it.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
I agree with all of this.

But I have a hard time believing that the reason Biden hasn't been indicted yet is because Trump is worried about what he'll be accused of.

I think they either don't have a strong enough case to give to a grand jury, or, if they do, they are holding it back till we are closer to either the DNC or general election.

The first scenario seems way more probable, and I think it's likely the same reason Hillary, Comey, Mcgahn and anyone else he's promised to lock up years ago hasen't even been charged.

However, I wouldn't put it past him to have sealed indictments on all of them already.  Imagine the impact of a July/August front page with all of them in hand cuffs.
Very unlikely there's enough evidence, and Trump probably wouldn't be able to contain himself if there was.

Or perhaps you are simply underestimating the scope and impact that these indictments will have. If he did it too soon, he would risk starting a civil war. This was the entire point of pushing the Russia collusion narrative from day one, to make it look like he was the one engaging in a coop as opposed to resisting one.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2071
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I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that Bidens chances at winning the nomination just shot up.

If Trump would have immediately got in and prosecuted this case, he would have been accused of being too thirsty to attack his political opponents. If he had done it during the mid-terms, he would have been accused of trying to use it as a political tool to win elections. Doing it any time during the impeachment farce, he was accused of using it to distract from impeachment. Here we are within sight of the 2020 presidential election, and now he is being accused of using it to attack his political opponent. I think the Democrats would prefer that they are simply just never investigated for their own crimes.

I agree with all of this.

But I have a hard time believing that the reason Biden hasn't been indicted yet is because Trump is worried about what he'll be accused of.

I think they either don't have a strong enough case to give to a grand jury, or, if they do, they are holding it back till we are closer to either the DNC or general election.

The first scenario seems way more probable, and I think it's likely the same reason Hillary, Comey, Mcgahn and anyone else he's promised to lock up years ago hasen't even been charged.

However, I wouldn't put it past him to have sealed indictments on all of them already.  Imagine the impact of a July/August front page with all of them in hand cuffs.
Very unlikely there's enough evidence, and Trump probably wouldn't be able to contain himself if there was.

legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that Bidens chances at winning the nomination just shot up.

If Trump would have immediately got in and prosecuted this case, he would have been accused of being too thirsty to attack his political opponents. If he had done it during the mid-terms, he would have been accused of trying to use it as a political tool to win elections. Doing it any time during the impeachment farce, he was accused of using it to distract from impeachment. Here we are within sight of the 2020 presidential election, and now he is being accused of using it to attack his political opponent. I think the Democrats would prefer that they are simply just never investigated for their own crimes.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
....
Exactly, and this was the whole game from the beginning. They issued carefully worded requests for information/testimony and simply CLAIMED they sent a subpoena, then told the media they actually did, and like the lapdogs they are they repeated it, and people like Nutilduuuuuh, TwittySeal, and Suchgoon sucked it down like the thirsty bias confirming TDS sufferers they are. Now that this is all over with, they can't produce any of the documents and are reduced to trying to distract with stories about "Mike Pompeo says" and FOIA requests rather than just admitting they are chumps that parrot whatever the idiot box tells them without ever checking for themselves.

Well, then this endless tirade makes sense sort of.

Regardless, there is a huge difference between "I received a request from (Someone/something very powerful who you wouldn't want to not obey)" and "I received a legal subpoena."

Some people received requests that weren't subpoenas.  I believe there were 5 of them in the state department.

But Pompeo received a Subpoena.  So did Rudy.  If they simply received a request, why would they say they received a subpoena?

Pompeo : "The department also acknowledges receipt of the subpoena"
Rudy : "I have received a subpoena"


What i'm suggesting is that there are at lest in some peoples' minds, various meanings to the word. And some use it in the general sense of a demand or request from (Congress, whomever...)

Be advised though I'm not seeing this in the dictionary definitions.
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