Topic: Vitalik and Tual going to end up in jail? - page 5. (Read 10940 times)

these guys aren't capable to code the softfork up. Total amateurs. Not in control of their own "invention".

But the Ethereum is a money of internet or internet of money, how can the Swiss regulate that?

They must have a permanent address that you can send the law enforcement to. But I am more interested in getting the hacker to the prison.

I don't think so. They can just travel between countries as they please.

Vitalik is still young. He is still learning. But it is better not with all my money in stake. I wish the Etereum be more robust in the future.

Well... this is embarrassing.  May 9th article from Vitalik , and now he pivots 180 degrees.



No credibility at all, and this could lead to some litigation from those against the HF!

I don't know if I believe it is a scam. It's just speculation at this point.

^ ain't that a FUD?  can't believe you exert effort writing such just to FUD around. you could have just shout "SCAM"

The DAO was a blessing in disguise. It exposed the vulnerabilities within Ethereum so greatly that no amount of hype could cover it up. But it also taught a lot of trading lessons to a lot of people that if they're willing to learn will strengthen their investment/speculation practices. While some people lost 'all' of their capital, the truth is. They probably only lost 1/2 of it at this point, could have been less if they folded the moment they saw a 20% market decrease on an established coin.

They can still sell their coins at a loss on the market, and make that back in less time than it takes for Ethereum and the DAO to get itself together. With the profit they make selling out, and putting only a select portion of gains back in (that is if they still want to) they could ride the wave 'if there is another wave' then if there is a wave, EXIT immediately back into BTC and double your profits. That's how I work. Altcoins are just a way to double my $USD so that I can double my capital with BTC and then back into a more stable currency that I can use for everyday transactions. But after this event I am toning it down a bit and will probably be sticking to just BTC, though altcoins can help add a few $$s to my portfolio so it's nice if viewed as something on the side but not as the main dish.

In any case I like altcoins because they give people with less capital a less volatile chance to explore how it works and offer innovation. It's a great place to train new speculators and practice new concepts, but even an altcoin on it's finest day will have a lot of work to be able to match Bitcoins ability to rise or drop by $50 - $100. Plus there are more ways to double your money with BTC than there are ways to do the same with altcoins. You can make $11k - $100k in a year with altcoins, you can do that in a month with BTC if you know what you're doing and have the capital.

On a Separate Note:
I also tend to find this whole DAO thing suspicious. There are too many red flags. The language of the contract saying, "The law is the code and the code is always right", any  programmer knows that was a problem waiting to happen. The Ethereum team hyping it up while at the same time trying to distance themselves legally from it at the same time. I remember thinking if this thing is as legit as they say why are they not willing to be accountable for their actions. And the slock.it team was suspicious too. Their unapologetic nature and how they seem unphased by all the anger targeted at them, and won't issue an apology adds to my suspicions. Ethereum backing this beast gave it credibility but they're only human and humans are flawed. When there is hype, ignore what the people are saying, read the contract and trust your own gut.

Something else got me, the language of the contract itself and the way it was designed almost feels deliberate even though they say otherwise. I read somewhere that the slock.it team had planned to exploit use the same area the attacker exploited but the attacker got to it first. I just get this really bad vibe that even though it is unproven that this was an inside job, and I'm not sure if it was the ethereum team or the slock.it team, but if there's anything to be learned from how corruption and hacks happen...it's usually an inside job. See Shapeshift's incident as an example.

I don't like openly speaking about my conspiracy theories but it seems suspicious. Either people were just negligible...or they are truly intelligent to know exactly what they're doing right now...don't like conspiracies, but this did leave a nasty taste in my mouth due to so many red flags and now just problem after problem with this thing. Idk. Maybe it was just their trust in a code that is still in development that got them there, their blind faith in their own work and the 'ego' and lack of humility with the slock.it team but that's just me.

(A conspiracy theory, so please don't take it too seriously. Just want to offer another perspective on the matter. I don't really know if the Ethereum concept is flawed , or if this kind of hardfork can really trigger a chain reaction that could lead to the self destruction of Ethereum)

It could be possible, that "TheDAO attack" was/is an inside job. Maybe ETH devs/foundation realized that the concept of Ethereum is flawed and they planned this whole mess including the proposed hardfork to initiate the death of Ethereum.

Why would they do it?
Considering how much effort they put into hyping this concept as the holy grail of blockchains with a great future to investors... it got too big to just say "Hey community, we realized that our idea was not well thought out, we are gonna stop developing because we believe that we can't fix it in a way that doesn't break the fundamental premise of Ethereum's concept (decentralized , autonomous, immutable smart contracts, where the code is  the law without interference from third parties and without the possibility of fraud or censorship). If they do this, they would get a lot of shit from investors :" But why did you hype this concept so much, when you didn't even knew if it could work the way you say it would? Isn't that deceptive? Did you lie to us to get our money or what?" There may also be a other negative consequences, like getting into troubles with the law.

With the hardfork they may be trying to shift the responsibility for the destruction of Ethereum to the community. So when the project fails, they can say "It wasn't really our fault, the community decided to do this, they are responsible for the hardfork.

Their reputation would be destroyed either way, but they may doge some of the negative consequences, especially concerning the law.


Please remember, this is just speculation, a thought that crossed my mind during this whole debacle. I am not saying that I believe this to be true, only that it could be possible explanation for what is happening right now.

Fuck DAO and ETH

That was a very big mass. Ethereeum did not suffer similar problem in the last two years. So it is good to have some experience.

LOL

If you think he was after money then yes, he probably didn't get much, but my impresion is that his main intent was to create a mess in Ethereum/DAO and he gloriously succeded.

It was fucked, but it has recovered from the hacking problem. The hacker did not get anything and the Ethereum is getting stronger.

The ideological argument is secondary to the fact that Ethereum was inescapably fucked from the day they launched:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/power-of-unstoppable-organizations-to-self-destruct-1523492

There is flaw in the DAO, but that is not an excuse to steal the funds and the thief is trying to convince the miners to help him to steal.

The deep legal quagmire Vitalik has dug:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4os7l5/the_big_thedao_heist_faq/d4hbbjm

The fraud of The DAO:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15300466

Of course, because I wrote that Ethereum Paradox thread. I mean I was the one instigating the deeper technical points. Perceptions may vary, but I am aware of who knew what and when because I understood the technical discussion in real-time at that time.

.. and I'm pretty sure it's also part in the Paradox thread as well... at least plenty hints and warnings.

I think a decent lawyer could fight that, as the code was supposed to be "golden", this is a feature now, despite the bug being openly disclosed, I still think the SEC might have something to say about that massive short. They will poke around at least.