Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 19557. (Read 26609713 times)
January 20, 2016, 08:09:31 AM
This will probably peak at around 410, and then we'll see a proper drop.
January 20, 2016, 08:06:52 AM
I'd advise trader here to secure their long position.
We have consensus.
We have consensus.
When did this royal "we" come to this result?
Should I act quickly, or do I have a few days of down before the up comes?
Not long ago.
I'd advise you act quickly.
^^
Hell of a call right there I would say
January 20, 2016, 08:06:08 AM
I wanted to post this since 5126 BC 
January 20, 2016, 08:03:37 AM
Pop pop! Last time we see the $300's?
January 20, 2016, 08:02:21 AM
I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split. If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?
For a start, the PoW.
After that, it depends.
Depends on what? If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch?
Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.
ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?
The market.
Quote
Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?
If you own 90% of the coins, you are the market. Obviously not realistic. In reality there are many participants, and they'll trade with one another and work it out. One fork will be worth more than the other, probably a lot more, but who knows.
90% was chosen at random. Let's say I own 5%, and keep in in cold storage, as a "store of value." How do I make my voice count?
Keep in mind, you edited out the important part:
<>If I'm just holding the coin (not solding), why do my wishes matter to the miners (I do not buy, only hodl)? To the exchanges (I do not trade, only hodl)?
According to your reasoning, by not trading (hodling the coin in cold storage), I effectively make myself irrelevant. Correct?Hell no, holding is what gives it value.
If you simply hold both, the split of value between the forks does not matter to you at all.
Assuming anyone else values this Bitcoin shit at all of course. If no one does, then you're screwed, same as if we wake up tomorrow and no wants Bitcoin any more.
If you want guaranteed store of value, independent of what other people value, too fucking bad. That doesn't exist. About the best you can do is buy a chocolate bar, at least you can eat it.
January 20, 2016, 08:01:53 AM
January 20, 2016, 07:58:31 AM
Adam fatfingered it and bought all the bitcoins
I love bitcoin. Can't stay stable more than a few days
January 20, 2016, 07:57:43 AM
Adam fatfingered it and bought all the bitcoins
January 20, 2016, 07:56:03 AM
I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split. If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?
For a start, the PoW.
After that, it depends.
Depends on what? If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch?
Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.
ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?
The market.
Quote
Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?
If you own 90% of the coins, you are the market. Obviously not realistic. In reality there are many participants, and they'll trade with one another and work it out. One fork will be worth more than the other, probably a lot more, but who knows.
90% was chosen at random. Let's say I own 5%, and keep in in cold storage, as a "store of value." How do I make my voice count?
Keep in mind, you edited out the important part:
<>If I'm just holding the coin (not solding), why do my wishes matter to the miners (I do not buy, only hodl)? To the exchanges (I do not trade, only hodl)?
According to your reasoning, by not trading (hodling the coin in cold storage), I effectively make myself irrelevant. Correct?What happened to the "store of value" function? To store (and be considered a part of the "economic majority), I must buy & sell?
January 20, 2016, 07:54:29 AM
OHMYGOSH
January 20, 2016, 07:52:17 AM
what did just happen to cause this pump?
January 20, 2016, 07:44:06 AM
Quote
People need to do a bank run in every exchange (maybe even online wallets too) well before we reach the point of the hard fork, to ensure that they have control of their BTCs.
AlexGR raises an excellent point. If there is an upcoming contentious hardfork scheduled then the first things people are going to do is withdraw ALL their coins off the exchanges and out of any custodial services.
All those bitcoin alliance folks and corporates that have made their businesses out of holding on to other people's coins in custody should keep that mind whilst they are pushing for contentious hardforks.
Ah, AlexGR's FUD sidekick...
Which idiots are going to leave their coins on an exchange or with Coinbase or BitGo or Bitpay before a hardfork? Almost all custody coins are going to be going back to their rightful owners before a contentious hardfork, the free market will do its job no?
Why leave the vote with the third party holders which fork your coins will end up on when you can keep your options open and hedge bets by holding them in cold storage for yourself?
*edited.
Is there any reliable information about which exchanges WILL NOT support the fork? I have already tried to start a list here, but no contributions yet...
January 20, 2016, 07:26:34 AM
Splitting a currency unit into two does not dilute the currency any more than moving the decimal point does.
In order to dilute you would need to create new units and issue them to someone other than existing holders.
In order to dilute you would need to create new units and issue them to someone other than existing holders.
Well mining does create new units, doesn't it? And instead of having +6mn coins, you then have +12mn due to parallel mining of +3600 coins on each fork.
Regarding existing holders, if you have your own keys you are relatively ok (minus the obvious destruction of USD value), but the situation with coins in online exchanges and wallets will be "problematic" if say an exchange with 500k BTCs, say 'ok my clients, now you have 500k BTCCs because we adopted this fork' (and we are keeping 500k BTCs of the other fork for ourselves). It would be like stealing BTCs and exchanging them for Gavincoins.
People need to do a bank run in every exchange (maybe even online wallets too) well before we reach the point of the hard fork, to ensure that they have control of their BTCs.
Alex, what have you been smoking dear boy? I'd like some.
Exchanges would be in court for years, well the ones that didn't have their doors smashed in, if they tried a slight of hand like that
Karpeles got away with 700k BTCs and said "oops, malleability bug".
They could easily say "well... you know... hard fork... force majeure! Not our fault".
Why would anyone risk this instead of pulling their money out.
Because the maintainance of the ledger IS NOT the ledger itself. There is no risk in holding any amount of bitcoin on both forks.
BTW: I hope you guys pull out all your money before the fork. This will be an epic buy opportunity!
He didn't say sell, he said pull it out of the exchange and hold the fucking keys yourself.
January 20, 2016, 07:25:26 AM
I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split. If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?
For a start, the PoW.
After that, it depends.
Depends on what? If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch?
Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.
ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?
The market.
Quote
Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?
If you own 90% of the coins, you are the market. Obviously not realistic. In reality there are many participants, and they'll trade with one another and work it out. One fork will be worth more than the other, probably a lot more, but who knows.
January 20, 2016, 07:13:00 AM
Splitting a currency unit into two does not dilute the currency any more than moving the decimal point does.
In order to dilute you would need to create new units and issue them to someone other than existing holders.
In order to dilute you would need to create new units and issue them to someone other than existing holders.
Well mining does create new units, doesn't it? And instead of having +6mn coins, you then have +12mn due to parallel mining of +3600 coins on each fork.
Regarding existing holders, if you have your own keys you are relatively ok (minus the obvious destruction of USD value), but the situation with coins in online exchanges and wallets will be "problematic" if say an exchange with 500k BTCs, say 'ok my clients, now you have 500k BTCCs because we adopted this fork' (and we are keeping 500k BTCs of the other fork for ourselves). It would be like stealing BTCs and exchanging them for Gavincoins.
People need to do a bank run in every exchange (maybe even online wallets too) well before we reach the point of the hard fork, to ensure that they have control of their BTCs.
Alex, what have you been smoking dear boy? I'd like some.
Exchanges would be in court for years, well the ones that didn't have their doors smashed in, if they tried a slight of hand like that
Karpeles got away with 700k BTCs and said "oops, malleability bug".
They could easily say "well... you know... hard fork... force majeure! Not our fault".
Why would anyone risk this instead of pulling their money out.
Because the maintainance of the ledger IS NOT the ledger itself. There is no risk in holding any amount of bitcoin on both forks.
Unless exchanges commit to offering both BTC and BTCC trading, with dual wallets, dual market engines etc, any BTC coins that remain in an exchange that "shifts" to BTCC can (and probably will be) "confiscated" and users will be given only ...gavincoins / BTCCs. Exchanges will have all sort of excuses to offer about how they are not obligated to do dual wallets for every different chain other than the dominant one, etc etc. They can even cite the protocol specifications and claim that the BTCCs are actually the real bitcoins and that BTCs are just an invalid shorter chain or something - so why would they even keep track of them, etc etc.
The fork can easily be a heist tool. Don't leave any coins on pools, exchanges, etc etc before any hard fork. If you own the keys, you'll get btcs AND btccs, so you can then dump whatever you don't like. Don't let exchanges take them and dump them for THEIR profit.
Any exchange that is on the bitcoinclassic.com page, essentially has a stated intention of turning your deposited BTCs into gavincoins / BTCCs and keeping your BTCs - unless they explicitly offer both BTC and BTCC trading options.
Even if one is a BTCC supporter, he'd rather have his BTCs for dumping (or HODLing) instead of the exchange who will keep the profit of the BTC-chain.
January 20, 2016, 07:11:36 AM
It's the same faggots dribbling the same nonsense in this thread.
some Juan Juan faggot, some billyjean faggot, i can't even remember your stupid names.
I can't even be bothered ignoring you retards, I just scroll down past whatever you idiots say.
Why don't you faggots get a hobby or something, you're the kings of the special olympics, absolute fucking retards.
Sell your coins or don't i dont give a fuck, i'll be the one having the last laugh when Bitcoin goes through the roof.
some Juan Juan faggot, some billyjean faggot, i can't even remember your stupid names.
I can't even be bothered ignoring you retards, I just scroll down past whatever you idiots say.
Why don't you faggots get a hobby or something, you're the kings of the special olympics, absolute fucking retards.
Sell your coins or don't i dont give a fuck, i'll be the one having the last laugh when Bitcoin goes through the roof.
wtf that's too funny!
U forgot "Cunt" Chocula dude?!
January 20, 2016, 07:06:51 AM
I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split. If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?
For a start, the PoW.
After that, it depends.
Depends on what? If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch?
Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.
ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?
Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?
If I'm just holding the coin (not solding), why do my wishes matter to the miners (I do not buy, only hodl)? To the exchanges (I do not trade, only hodl)?
January 20, 2016, 07:01:38 AM
January 20, 2016, 06:29:57 AM
Splitting a currency unit into two does not dilute the currency any more than moving the decimal point does.
In order to dilute you would need to create new units and issue them to someone other than existing holders.
In order to dilute you would need to create new units and issue them to someone other than existing holders.
Well mining does create new units, doesn't it? And instead of having +6mn coins, you then have +12mn due to parallel mining of +3600 coins on each fork.
Regarding existing holders, if you have your own keys you are relatively ok (minus the obvious destruction of USD value), but the situation with coins in online exchanges and wallets will be "problematic" if say an exchange with 500k BTCs, say 'ok my clients, now you have 500k BTCCs because we adopted this fork' (and we are keeping 500k BTCs of the other fork for ourselves). It would be like stealing BTCs and exchanging them for Gavincoins.
People need to do a bank run in every exchange (maybe even online wallets too) well before we reach the point of the hard fork, to ensure that they have control of their BTCs.
Alex, what have you been smoking dear boy? I'd like some.
Exchanges would be in court for years, well the ones that didn't have their doors smashed in, if they tried a slight of hand like that
Karpeles got away with 700k BTCs and said "oops, malleability bug".
They could easily say "well... you know... hard fork... force majeure! Not our fault".
Why would anyone risk this instead of pulling their money out.
Because the maintainance of the ledger IS NOT the ledger itself. There is no risk in holding any amount of bitcoin on both forks.
BTW: I hope you guys pull out all your money before the fork. This will be an epic buy opportunity!
January 20, 2016, 06:20:28 AM
Splitting a currency unit into two does not dilute the currency any more than moving the decimal point does.
In order to dilute you would need to create new units and issue them to someone other than existing holders.
In order to dilute you would need to create new units and issue them to someone other than existing holders.
Well mining does create new units, doesn't it? And instead of having +6mn coins, you then have +12mn due to parallel mining of +3600 coins on each fork.
Regarding existing holders, if you have your own keys you are relatively ok (minus the obvious destruction of USD value), but the situation with coins in online exchanges and wallets will be "problematic" if say an exchange with 500k BTCs, say 'ok my clients, now you have 500k BTCCs because we adopted this fork' (and we are keeping 500k BTCs of the other fork for ourselves). It would be like stealing BTCs and exchanging them for Gavincoins.
People need to do a bank run in every exchange (maybe even online wallets too) well before we reach the point of the hard fork, to ensure that they have control of their BTCs.
Alex, what have you been smoking dear boy? I'd like some.
Exchanges would be in court for years, well the ones that didn't have their doors smashed in, if they tried a slight of hand like that
Karpeles got away with 700k BTCs and said "oops, malleability bug".
They could easily say "well... you know... hard fork... force majeure! Not our fault".
Why would anyone risk this instead of pulling their money out.
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