Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 27728. (Read 26711605 times)

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
Is it?  What factor should one apply to those number to get the real cost?

You can't.  You have throw away that number and  compute a valid number.  It costs about $2k to buy 1 ghps, which gives you a 1.3x10^-8 chance at every 25 btc block reward (one every 9 minutes).  That difficulty increases 20% at each adjustment, every 12.8 days.  Now calculate.

"now calculate" - hehe, yeah, right.

as a miner for 3 years now, I would say that my opinion of the "cost" of mining will closely correlate with the bitcoin price moving forward.

there will be significant lag, as there is a lot of sunk money in bitcoin mining, but my greatest hope would be the graph below:


credit to TERA for this nearly famous chart.  


such a scenario would dampen mining in a profound way. we really had a great push when asics were first realized, and then implemented, and now they have been executed.

Now we are reaching the boundaries of what is currently possible. The physical boundary of heat is IMO the biggest barrier at this time.

Until the next "quantum leap" in computing, mining bitcoin is going to get quite boring. (it already pretty much is)

altcoins keep it fun, kinda, and I can see the real innovation in trying to find new super-secure, energy-efficient, wipes-your-ass-for-you types of encryption.

the only problem is that with 5 years of accounting records behind it, bitcoin has a large incentive to stick around...

... sorry, I started out trying to pick a fight and now I don't even remember what I was mad about. isn't the internet great?
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
banks have no problem buying bubblicious derivatives, lending money to poeple that are likely to default in < 12months.

wtf is this "risk profile" bullshit

It's called red-lining, and it's only illegal if you are in a protected class.


it's downright criminal is what it is

what exactly is a "protected class" anyways?

legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
banks have no problem buying bubblicious derivatives, lending money to poeple that are likely to default in < 12months.

wtf is this "risk profile" bullshit

It's called red-lining, and it's only illegal if you are in a protected class.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
Is it?  What factor should one apply to those number to get the real cost?

You can't.  You have throw away that number and  compute a valid number.  It costs about $2k to buy 1 ghps, which burns .2 joule/gh at $0.1/kwh, and which gives you a 1.3x10^-8 chance at every 25 btc block reward (one every 9 minutes).  That difficulty increases 20% at each adjustment, every 12.8 days.  Now calculate.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Stand on the shoulders of giants
but ..  Grin Granny was young once and got a boyfriend





hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Jorge = the speculative FUD machine
Wait, I am pointing to charts issued from the Holy Sanctum of the Bitcoin Church -- and *I* am the FUD machine?  Wink

that cost pre transaction is babylon it assumes everyone is mining with equipment 6-12 months out of date .
Is it?  What factor should one apply to those number to get the real cost?

lets go buy a bitcoin!
But if I bought even one satoshi, I would not be able to brag about my trading performace any more.  Wink

And I would be racking my brains now, trying to decide whether I should sell half of my bitcoin holdings and use the fiat to double the other half, or create my own private exchange so that I can trade with myself and not worry about the price anymore.   Huh
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
banks have no problem buying bubblicious derivatives, lending money to poeple that are likely to default in < 12months.

wtf is this "risk profile" bullshit

no kidding

at least we're done with the "first they ignore you, then they ridicule you" phase, we are now entering the transition to the "then they fight you" phase.

still a lot of ridicule out there, and I think the fight will be long and bloody as well, but eventually we will reach the "win" phase.

if we can't win against the vampire squids then I'll probably die trying.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
Jorge = the speculative FUD machine

that cost per transaction is baloney it assumes everyone is mining with equipment 6-12 months out of date .

the network will always self adjusts itself anyway.

there will be alot more TX in the future, and if there's not hash rate will go down, and bring down the cost / TX.

its not rocket science its simple supply/demand economic law.



lets go buy a bitcoin!



Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
I hate huobi. Why is it on the order book I can see 200CNY of the ask side but only 30 CNY of the bid side.
Yeah.  Somce clients create zillions of tiny book entries, with small BTC amounts and at prices that are often 1-2 cents of yuan apart. Thus when the books are truncated after N entries they are still very close to the spread.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Also this chart seems to say that the bitcoin system currently costs 30 USD per transaction:
https://blockchain.info/charts/cost-per-transaction
The cost of running the system is currently hidden in the inflation caused by mining, but in the long run will have to be paid by users as transaction fees.  If the numbers above are correct, bitcoin will be inviable for payments below 1000 USD.

It's an compelling argument on the face of it, but the question is compared to what?
What is the transaction and system maintenance cost of a USD/GBP/EUR fiat transfer?
Credit cards make huge profits from their fees, so the cost is much less than what they charge.

What is interesting is the marginal cost of a transaction, not the average.
In other words : how much does it cost for the system in place to generate one more transaction ?
That's a good question indeed.  I am  looking at these plots:
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?showDataPoints=false×pan=&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0
https://blockchain.info/charts/cost-per-transaction?showDataPoints=false×pan=&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0
Note that there was a marked increase in the number of transactions around 2013/Dec/14, and another smaller hump around 2014/Mar/20.  At those times, the cost per transaction actually increased.   Thus it would seem that the cost is more than proportional to the number of transactions, i.e. the marginal cost is greater than the average cost.

Perhaps this effect is due to some marked change in the character of the traffic at those times, such as a decrease in the number of transactions per block.  (I understand that the expected cost of processing one block is largely independent of how many transactions it contains; is this correct?  If so, the cost per block should be a "cleaner" parameter than cost per transaction, right?)
full member
Activity: 336
Merit: 100
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-businesses-detail-banking-setbacks-at-us-task-force-hearing/

Quote
Annemarie Tierney, general counsel and legal EVP for SecondMarket, told the panel that the high-risk profiling recently cost the company a long-time banking relationship.

She said:

“[The bank] gave us notice yesterday that they wanted to end that banking relationship, in part because our transitions around bitcoin, even though we’re not an MSB or an exchange, [it] raised our risk profile and it was too much work for them to figure it out.”

Tierney added that the termination was “very, very discouraging” for the company.

Game over. Sell before it's too late.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

That is ridiculous - US bank closed Second Market's account because they invest in bitcoin? Are we becoming China  Huh
full member
Activity: 336
Merit: 100

Wow, this is really extreme. I imagine how frustrated ppl with online wallets are Sad. OTOH, Chinese officials are very inconsistent - mobile websites still OK. Truly, it will be kinder if they would just openly and honestly shut everything down, not suddenly closing access to online wallets or off shore exchanges. Guess these are cultural differences, for some reason they do not want to appear to ban btc, even if they are effectively try to do it  Huh
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1008
Modi is elected.. that is bullish bitcoin.

sure. and the muslim riot within three months

Muslims actually dont mind him.. its terrorists hes after. They know its a problem in their culture.
Still i wouldnt be surprised if modi went full pro bitcoin and India took charge.

He is known as being socially as well as financially conservative.  I don't know if that is accurate or what it means in regards to btc.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
banks have no problem buying bubblicious derivatives, lending money to poeple that are likely to default in < 12months.

wtf is this "risk profile" bullshit
It's because they feel this "Money v.2.0" will lead them out of business. It's like funding the guy next door to open a store just like yours with better products. What else?  Wink
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
My new view of the market:



I wouldn't be suprised to see flat for an entire year.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that you're fucking wrong for the 10th time.
Remember your case-in-point during October?



Anyone who thinks bitcoin is staying 500 for a year is delusional. You're not fooling anyone.
This actually could have happened if it weren't for china.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
Jump to: