Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29197. (Read 26608315 times)

hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Jorge, what is illegal about an investor buying coins on other exchanges to inject into Gox?

Of course it is OK to buy coins on other exchanges from the exchange's customers and withdrawing them.

What is not OK is buying a big lump of those coins in private from the exchange without the clients' knowledge. 
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
. Bit of an unsatisfactory answer maybe, but "the next few 6h candles will decide how it'll resolve" is the best answer I think that can be given at the moment.
watch  Heiken Ashi and you see better the evolvement than with "normal" candlesticks

sorry I got only 4h chart
hero member
Activity: 750
Merit: 601
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yv26o/gox_horror_story_thread_how_much_did_you_lose/

disposabledealer comment suggest that MtGox have suspended a number of accounts for illegal activites. (SilkRoad) This could be why Mark doesn't current have access to many of the Bitcoins. There are being held by the US government pending some sort of resolution.
This is probably why Mark can't speak about what is going on.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
What most of you seem to not understand is that one of the biggest results of this Gox fiasco is that many many coins are going into encrypted jump drives and paper wallets. They are not Beany Babies. They are Faberge eggs. There are going to get scarce. Really scarce.

I'm pulling most of my holdings off the exchanges. I should have done it long ago. You can figure out for yourself what this will do to the price.

Got to agree with this, I know I started off with just a small % of my holdings on exchanges but as the price has gone up and Ive traded this has become a substantial figure. While this isn't a bad thing there has been occasions where I have sold more than I would of if I had had less on the exchanges.

I guess using your logic, which is fairly sound, supply is going to dry up. I think we will just see more transactions backwards and forwards from personal storage to exchanges but the chance for less panic selling is definately apparent.
hero member
Activity: 750
Merit: 601
What most of you seem to not understand is that one of the biggest results of this Gox fiasco is that many many coins are going into encrypted jump drives and paper wallets. They are not Beany Babies. They are Faberge eggs. There are going to get scarce. Really scarce.

I'm pulling most of my holdings off the exchanges. I should have done it long ago. You can figure out for yourself what this will do to the price.

Thats sound plausible, until the exchanges are regulated and your coins are effectively insured, there will be a move towards only having traders with coins on exchanges. This will damage liquidity and increase volatility.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
banned but not broken
Step 1 is that all deposited bitcoins should be to per-account wallets with the public key known to the depositor.

Fiat? On your own there.

Edit: This does need some kind of cold-storage option though.

I think that the Step 1 you offered is a really good idea.
Only option that I have came up with to keep things honest around fiat is a self-regulatory information based system. The exchanges have to pass quarterly audits to show that all the fiat is there and it isn't being used for anything else that it is meant to. These audits will be voluntary of course, but those exchanges who refuse cooperation will be flagged untrustworthy in the wider field of information around bitcoin. This will cause a problem of neutrality, but I think that this can be overcome with proper methods.
I think that using information to promote some exchanges and warn people about other exchanges is the only realistic regulatory system that doesn't have to involve the state. And the good thing is that it also works globally, while state enforced regulations only work locally.

sr. member
Activity: 362
Merit: 262
My theory is that the keys to the 740K BTC were on a USB stick, and Mark accidentally dropped it in a frappacino.
LOL
full member
Activity: 378
Merit: 100
My theory is that the keys to the 740K BTC were on a USB stick, and Mark accidentally dropped it in a frappacino.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Thus, I would be very surprised if MtGOX gets rescued.
I wouldn't be. I made the argument here, although it's a simplistic one:

http://theblogchain.com/2014/02/26/mtgox-is-getting-rescued-by-other-bitcoin-businesses/

Thanks.

I have one nit about your document: you suggest that the company that would rescue MtGOX could buy coins from the other exchanges.  But the coins in the exchanges' wallets do not belong to the exchanges, they belong to their clients.  

In fact, my preferred explanation at the moment for how MtGOX "lost" all those coins is that they sold them off-market in order to play with the cash, confident that they coudl re-purchse them if and when needed; but then the BTC price jumped from 100$ to 800$  in november-december, and they could no longer do that.

So, I think that it would be too risky (if not criminal) for the exchanges to sell those coins to the Save-MtGOX company.  Ditto for any bitcoin investment funds.

Does this make sense?


The best price would be buying coins not on the exchanges. Anybody with ideas that gox was buying their own customers coins on a crash to replenish holdings I guess doesn't believe in fraud, but I am sure the U.S and Japanese government will if they find such info.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
What most of you seem to not understand is that one of the biggest results of this Gox fiasco is that many many coins are going into encrypted jump drives and paper wallets. They are not Beany Babies. They are Faberge eggs. There are going to get scarce. Really scarce.

I'm pulling most of my holdings off the exchanges. I should have done it long ago. You can figure out for yourself what this will do to the price.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Jorge, what is illegal about an investor buying coins on other exchanges to inject into Gox?

 As long as were on the same page and realise that when we say buying off other exchanges we don't mean buying from exchanges cold storage and giving the money to them, we mean buying them at whatever market price from those exchanges clients with a regular account. What would be illegal with that ?

I also don't buy the liquidated them to play with the cash story. No one who believes in bitcoin (which he clearly did / does) would do that,  they all feel that the price is way under valued and its a life changing tech. Hence why he acquired so many coins and then wanted his own exchange. Why would he then bet against the price going up?

Also back at $100 there wasn't anywhere near the liquidity to sell all of those coins.
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1035
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
This is what i think:
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000


This would make for a somewhat more realistic bottom.  (though it still looks a little short to me overall)

This is what I think is gonna happen next:

legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

It's the steep deflationary nature of bitcoin that turns most people off.

Steep howso?
hero member
Activity: 496
Merit: 500
Spanish Bitcoin trader
there were 9 found blocks in only 20 minutes, how odd is that ?
Since the probability distribution is exponential:

http://www.endmemo.com/statistics/exponential.php

Mean: 2 (2 blocks in 20 minutes, actually slightly greater)
Greater than: 9

A little more than 1%, which means this is expected to happen once every day on average.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
banned but not broken

I sometimes have a hard time getting across my point because of my convoluted writing style. Apologies for that.

Here's my point, ultra condensed: Mtgox shutdown (in whatever form it'll happen) *does* matter. No question about that. But the question is *how* it will matter on which time frame.

Short term, it certainly will depress price (and did so already, yesterday for example). But I caution anyone who believes to know with certainty that it will depress prices for a long time. There are several plausible interpretation scenarios that will make mtgox closure *positive* in the long run, just like we know think of the SR closure as (obviously) a good thing.

Note that I'm personally not *sure* if mtgox closure will be seen as positive in the long run, but I see the real possibility for it. The market will ultimately decide, and I just mention the possibility that, in a year from now, we'll talk again about mtgox and everyone will go "Well, d'uh, of course it was good news. The worst run exchange in the BTC ecoystem *finally* went down. That's what brought us to the new ATH of 6000."

Easier to agree with you here. The important question is not yet answered, how will the fall of gox be played out. Will there be a bail-out where gox will be bought and the customers will get what they're owed, or will it just be a bankruptcy with all the money magically disappeared.
The first option isn't easy. It would be a noble act if someone invested so much, just to save the integrity of the market, but it does have it's risks. For instance, what stops another exchange from repeating what gox did and by that nullifying previous attempts to save the integrity of the market? Only solution that I can see, is some kind of an self-regulatory system that will separate trustworthy exchanges from the shadowy ones.
I agree, that right now you can't speculate the future, because there is no solid information to speculate the future on. Fall of gox could be a good way to show integrity and responsibility around bitcoin, but it could also make it lose all of it's existing positive halo.
Jump to: