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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 31174. (Read 26724083 times)

legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
seems altcoins are dropping across the board..... any idea if this means anything?
returning to some form of sanity....
but in regards to bitcoin?
You mean that Altcoin over bitcoin ratio is going down, correct?
For me that means we are returning to a more normal level of speculation. 
I think many altcoins were being heavily overhyped/pumped.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
I like Risto, if he is all braggadocio then that is fine by me.   He is still fun to read and I hope to meet him at the BTC 1k party Smiley.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
A candle is forming.

That tends to happen on candlestick charts.
I was going for most accurate speculation.

Omg the trades are being made.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500


Lol. This is the stupidest fucking thread derail in the history of bitcointalk.

The price hasn't been going anywhere the last 24 hours other than bouncing between 880-1000. We need something to fill the time.  Grin
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
seems altcoins are dropping across the board..... any idea if this means anything?
returning to some form of sanity....
but in regards to bitcoin?
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
seems altcoins are dropping across the board..... any idea if this means anything?
returning to some form of sanity....
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫
A candle is forming.

That tends to happen on candlestick charts.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
seems altcoins are dropping across the board..... any idea if this means anything?
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Dumb broad
I've seen that before and it's rather vague re. patterns...it is something of a theoretical leap.  However, we are 'hard-wired' for optimism...you should enjoy this
http://positivepsychologynews.com/news/louisa-jewell/2011062118294
which discusses Tali Sharot's work.

And by the way....did you ever post that poem you owe me?   Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Where does everyone find these amazing pictures of bears getting destroyed? They're great! Seems like there is one for every occasion.

This one in particular is from the game Skyrim, if I am not mistaken.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
A candle is forming.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000


 Undecided

Where does everyone find these amazing pictures of bears getting destroyed? They're great! Seems like there is one for every occasion.
legendary
Activity: 4242
Merit: 5039
You're never too old to think young.
Oy vey.

Or is that haista paska?

 Grin
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
I really believe that Risto is seriously trolling in here. It's virtually IMPOSSIBLE to predict ANYTHING for sure into such a system like BTC. A serious prediction of ANY chaotic system (not one like we're observing here, which may as well be the mother of all chaotic systems) would have been in the timeframe of minutes or hours at max, not days; nor weeks.

ANY data provided and calculated may as well be proved as right, also as wrong. If he managed to make it based onto his calculations it's good for him and may as well define a brand new IQ entity by himself. I seriously salute him! But I don't think he did it only because of them. Luck is a special and important factor in this.

Just saying (if you want theoretical proof I can also support what I've just typed).


I have a special kind of mind, it is quite simple, but it can calculate monetary probabilities very well. Somebody else may choke on his numbers, or shortcircuit and SHOUT that it is impossible to predict anything with certainty. Sure it is. Still some people win in poker and others don't.

I have a simple model that shows (among others) that after bubble pop, as long as the price is 0.2 or more log-units over the trendline, it is not possible to sell at a profit in 1-6 months timeframe. It is quite sobering: by selling at $628 today, the buyback at a profit is guaranteed for many months to come.

Chances that the model ends up faulty (that despite their mutual differences, 2 previous bubbles have something intrinsic in common that the 3rd does not have) are 20-30%, which means that the odds are way in favor. With this kind of odds it is Kelly optimal to risk about 40% of your net worth.

Any doubts I had that you might have been as knowledgeable as you claim to be have just been washed away in one stroke.

Sadly your mind apparently cannot grasp the concept that in a chaotic, dynamic system, what happened in the past cannot be used to predict the future unless the circumstances are exactly the same.

Not to mention: it was far more likely that the two bubbles would show some mutual similarity (both being bubbles) than no similarity at all. But just because those similarities exist does not mean should be understood as anything more than stochastic noise; it could have just as easily been any other of the countless possible permutations that you would now be using to "guarantee profit".

I'm close to ignoring him to be honest.   He's the type that says very little with a lot of words, but I doubt his sincerity and skills.  And while he certainly spends a lot of time telling everyone how much money he has, I've seen no evidence of that.  I have however seen that picture of him posing in front of someone else's Rolls Royce and pretending it's his.

Maybe he has rich friends, but hey, there are a hell of a lot of new rich people in the world as of the last few months, many of us in this thread included.

I don't pander to ego generally.  It annoys me.  And it's often those who spend so long telling everyone how amazing they are that are end up being quite the opposite in reality.

Less big man talk, and if you want people to actually pay attention to what you say, give them a reason to.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Indeed, this whole discussion and peer bullying is stupid. Enough with the Rpietila bashing.

Let the guy speak his mind, the same as we all do. I know lots of people don't like the way he expresses himself or agree with his analysis, but be honest now..

I'd much rather read any of rpietila's post (I always find them interesting and thought-provoking, even when I disagree with what he's saying or how) than most of the sub-par content I'm used to finding both here and  in other places like Reddit.

Let's bask in how different we all are and how rich that makes us. No need to alienate people, specially active people who contribute original content on a regular basis.

Some of his threads are interesting and his "general" advices are sound (like the SSS thread).

All his price calls are wrong and he is a contrarian indicator.

All his tales about successful trading, manipulation, etc. are proven bullshit. He makes most of that up.

Finally, his business model is to create the character of a super-wealthy super-successful trader so he can attract the attention of newcomers and then sell them BTC with a markup. It's pretty obvious and he has even admitted it in some sanity moments he has had.


Yes, I get what you're saying, but still, I prefer such a character than a one-opinion monochromatic forum.

Bitcoin was created and pushed from ground zero by contrarians and eccentric minds. When we lose that, we become just like the systems before us.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Indeed, this whole discussion and peer bullying is stupid. Enough with the Rpietila bashing.

Let the guy speak his mind, the same as we all do. I know lots of people don't like the way he expresses himself or agree with his analysis, but be honest now..

I'd much rather read any of rpietila's post (I always find them interesting and thought-provoking, even when I disagree with what he's saying or how) than most of the sub-par content I'm used to finding both here and  in other places like Reddit.

Let's bask in how different we all are and how rich that makes us. No need to alienate people, specially active people who contribute original content on a regular basis.

Some of his analytic threads are interesting (like the SSS one).

All his calls are wrong and he is a contrarian indicator.

All his tales about successful trading, manipulation, etc. are proven bullshit. He makes most of that up.

Finally, his business model is to create the character of a super-wealthy super-successful trader so he can attract the attention of newcomers and then sell them BTC with a markup. It's pretty obvious and he has even admitted it in some sanity moments he has had.

shit were not going to a million $?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
china will go thru 5500 soon, they already punctured it and now they are oversold

Having seen my magic, perhaps you can now publicly acknowledge that I have 10,000 bitcoins, apologize, stfu and gtfo. OK?  Grin

If you want to prove that just sign a message with an address holding 10k and put that signed message in your signature - no need for nobody to "acknowledge", that would be a hard cold proof.

That's pure non spoofable crypto, heart and soul of Bitcoin.

That's not hard cold proof. It's susceptible to Man in the Middle attack.

Care to elaborate that? How could rpietila perform "a man in the middle attack" and make bitcointalk.org users to believe he signed a message with an address holding 10k BTC if he is not in control of an address with such an amount?

Because there is nothing linking the Bitcoin address to his forum account. Hypothetically speaking, he could just ask a friend who has access to 10K BTC to sign a message and just post it. The difference is there is the possibility he can get 10K BTC account to sign a message, but he may not necessary control it.

But that's no man in the middle attack, in that case Risto would just be "borrowing" the coins for a specific purpose - signing the message, which is a proof he can have access (at least for that very purpose of signing the message) to 10k coins.

In any case, only a retard would accept to use 10k of his own coins to sign a message like "this coins belong to Risto Pietila", in practical terms Risto's "friend" would be handing to Risto the control of those bitcoins. That's like signing a contract, explain to a judge that "it was just a favor".

No.

The owner of those coins could sign the message for him. Risto would never need to control them. Virtualfaqs is right.

Meatspace equivalent: I can sign a contract in which I transfer to you the ownership of my house, but without ever handing to you the keys.

Finally:

If I have to prove on a forum that I own a $10M mansion, how about uploading a valid and verifiable contract of ownership of such mansion in my name? Wouldn't you consider that a proof of ownership?

Justin Bieber could be my friend and he could have signed the contract as a favour, without ever handing to me the keys. But that's beyond retarded and plainly ridiculous. As retarded, ridiculous and unlikely as expecting someone to cryptographically sign a message such as "This 10k BTC belong to Risto Pietila" with an address holding 10k BTC that do NOT belong to Risto.

Probably you do not fully understand the strong implications of such a message - any cryptographically signed message is potentially binding, and that's why the QT client warns you about signing only messages to which content you fully agree. If Risto has such "friends" that sign those messages for him I congratulate and envy him.

Uh, no, that's not the meatspace equivalent. There's no practical significance to signing someone else's message with your address. The person with the private key maintains full and absolute control. Said owner could simply transfer those coins after a suitable amount of time passed to satisfy everyone.

The meatspace equivalent is telling Risto's buddies that he owns your house.

We will have to agree to disagree: i) For you cryptographically signed messages have no significance, ii) for me they have a very strong significance.

You do not "own" the coins; the private keys "own" the coins. Using the private key of an addy holding 10k BTC of your coins to sign a message stating than the owner is an individual other than you has a very strong significance for me and I wouldn't do it. As a start, I would be worried about that individual claiming in the future that that priv keys were stolen from him. Sure no judge would understand nothing about this (yet), so you might be right about the lack of "practical" significances as there are no legal precedents on that sense - but I bet there will be a lot of practical significances in the futures. I believe we will see a lot of smart properties/contracts implemented on the blockchain and a lot of legally binding agreements based on message-signing with addresses privkeys.

In any case: I don't think rpietila has 10k BTC nor the access to someone with 10k BTC willing to sign on his behalf the following message: "these 10k BTC belong to Risto Pietila"

Yes, it will be interesting to see how a court case deals with verified sigs. But they'd also have to link verified sigs to a person's identity. That may not be so easy either as multiple people could have access, hacks, and other reasons.

I'd change it this:  "these 10k BTC belong to Risto Pietila aka bitcointalk.org username: rpietila" This is so people like me know there's a probable link to his forum account.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
Indeed, this whole discussion and peer bullying is stupid. Enough with the Rpietila bashing.

Let the guy speak his mind, the same as we all do. I know lots of people don't like the way he expresses himself or agree with his analysis, but be honest now..

I'd much rather read any of rpietila's post (I always find them interesting and thought-provoking, even when I disagree with what he's saying or how) than most of the sub-par content I'm used to finding both here and  in other places like Reddit.

Let's bask in how different we all are and how rich that makes us. No need to alienate people, specially active people who contribute original content on a regular basis.

Some of his threads are interesting and his "general" advices are sound (like the SSS thread).

All his price calls are wrong and he is a contrarian indicator.

All his tales about successful trading, manipulation, etc. are proven bullshit. He makes most of that up.

Finally, his business model is to create the character of a super-wealthy super-successful trader so he can attract the attention of newcomers and then sell them BTC with a markup. It's pretty obvious and he has even admitted it in some sanity moments he has had.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫
china will go thru 5500 soon, they already punctured it and now they are oversold

Having seen my magic, perhaps you can now publicly acknowledge that I have 10,000 bitcoins, apologize, stfu and gtfo. OK?  Grin

If you want to prove that just sign a message with an address holding 10k and put that signed message in your signature - no need for nobody to "acknowledge", that would be a hard cold proof.

That's pure non spoofable crypto, heart and soul of Bitcoin.

That's not hard cold proof. It's susceptible to Man in the Middle attack.

Care to elaborate that? How could rpietila perform "a man in the middle attack" and make bitcointalk.org users to believe he signed a message with an address holding 10k BTC if he is not in control of an address with such an amount?

Because there is nothing linking the Bitcoin address to his forum account. Hypothetically speaking, he could just ask a friend who has access to 10K BTC to sign a message and just post it. The difference is there is the possibility he can get 10K BTC account to sign a message, but he may not necessary control it.

But that's no man in the middle attack, in that case Risto would just be "borrowing" the coins for a specific purpose - signing the message, which is a proof he can have access (at least for that very purpose of signing the message) to 10k coins.

In any case, only a retard would accept to use 10k of his own coins to sign a message like "this coins belong to Risto Pietila", in practical terms Risto's "friend" would be handing to Risto the control of those bitcoins. That's like signing a contract, explain to a judge that "it was just a favor".

No.

The owner of those coins could sign the message for him. Risto would never need to control them. Virtualfaqs is right.

Meatspace equivalent: I can sign a contract in which I transfer to you the ownership of my house, but without ever handing to you the keys.

Finally:

If I have to prove on a forum that I own a $10M mansion, how about uploading a valid and verifiable contract of ownership of such mansion in my name? Wouldn't you consider that a proof of ownership?

Justin Bieber could be my friend and he could have signed the contract as a favour, without ever handing to me the keys. But that's beyond retarded and plainly ridiculous. As retarded, ridiculous and unlikely as expecting someone to cryptographically sign a message such as "This 10k BTC belong to Risto Pietila" with an address holding 10k BTC that do NOT belong to Risto.

Probably you do not fully understand the strong implications of such a message - any cryptographically signed message is potentially binding, and that's why the QT client warns you about signing only messages to which content you fully agree. If Risto has such "friends" that sign those messages for him I congratulate and envy him.

Uh, no, that's not the meatspace equivalent. There's no practical significance to signing someone else's message with your address. The person with the private key maintains full and absolute control. Said owner could simply transfer those coins after a suitable amount of time passed to satisfy everyone.

The meatspace equivalent is telling Risto's buddies that he owns your house.

We will have to agree to disagree: i) For you cryptographically signed messages have no significance, ii) for me they have a very strong significance.

You do not "own" the coins; the private keys "own" the coins. Using the private key of an addy holding 10k BTC of your coins to sign a message stating than the owner is an individual other than you has a very strong significance for me and I wouldn't do it. As a start, I would be worried about that individual claiming in the future that that priv keys were stolen from him. Sure no judge would understand nothing about this (yet), so you might be right about the lack of "practical" significances as there are no legal precedents on that sense - but I bet there will be a lot of practical significances in the futures. I believe we will see a lot of smart properties/contracts implemented on the blockchain and a lot of legally binding agreements based on message-signing with addresses privkeys.

In any case: I don't think rpietila has 10k BTC nor the access to someone with 10k BTC willing to sign on his behalf the following message: "these 10k BTC belong to Risto Pietila"

I can understand how you would come to that conclusion if you are of the opinion that the signed message is of great significance, and from a theoretical standpoint it's not unreasonable to think so.

My thinking is that you can currently make no practical legal claim based on a signed message for the reasons described, and therefore it does not represent any kind of transfer of ownership.

In any event, I would be willing to sign such a message for a relatively nominal fee, since I'd just transfer the coins afterward. I'm sure I'm not the only one that would, either, even if you wouldn't.

So I wouldn't accept it as evidence if Risto DID sign such a message, although it would go a long way toward making me believe he does control so many coins.
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