No one gets on my ignore list.
ignore is for pussies (and i don't mean that in a sexist way)
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 32016. (Read 26608282 times)
November 14, 2013, 06:11:12 PM
ignore is for pussies (and i don't mean that in a sexist way)
November 14, 2013, 06:10:42 PM
If you actually followed the source wikipedia links to, it says the following:
Quote
I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.
So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.
Not sure why this bothers some of you so much. There is government fiat, now digital fiat, clam shell fiat, etc, etc. As freethink just said, fiat isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's not bad that USD is fiat in that sense. What's bad about USD is that it is debt based. It enters the system as debt. It would actually be nice if the treasury would just issue sovereign money and break capital holders grip on our economy. But they can't/won't because they are in debt to the capital holders. Some of you worry about the small things and don't really see the big picture at work here.
Relevant:
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm
November 14, 2013, 06:09:51 PM
I feel a great disturbance in the force.
I'm calling a top here (or very close to where we are now). All that noise about the greenlisting stuff and the fact that even people like Mike Hearn seem to have turned to the dark side is making people increasingly nervous. There will be a huge correction. There will be blood. In order to maximize my profit from the initial shock I'm now increasing the rebalancing threshold of my balancer bot from 11% to 30%.
I'm calling a top here (or very close to where we are now). All that noise about the greenlisting stuff and the fact that even people like Mike Hearn seem to have turned to the dark side is making people increasingly nervous. There will be a huge correction. There will be blood. In order to maximize my profit from the initial shock I'm now increasing the rebalancing threshold of my balancer bot from 11% to 30%.
I think your balancer is out of coins. I'm sorry we go up.
November 14, 2013, 06:08:53 PM
No one gets on my ignore list.
November 14, 2013, 06:08:44 PM
Nah. It takes a little more than that to get on my ignore list
Love this thread btw. <3
+1 Me too. I try to quit but I just keep coming back.
November 14, 2013, 06:07:26 PM
November 14, 2013, 06:06:43 PM
If you actually followed the source wikipedia links to, it says the following:
Quote
I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.
So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.
Not sure why this bothers some of you so much. There is government fiat, now digital fiat, clam shell fiat, etc, etc. As freethink just said, fiat isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's not bad that USD is fiat in that sense. What's bad about USD is that it is debt based. It enters the system as debt. It would actually be nice if the treasury would just issue sovereign money and break capital holders grip on our economy.
The decree is right here: http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Everyone here has accepted bitcoin as the implementation of that decree.
November 14, 2013, 06:06:02 PM
This thread has gone full retard.
November 14, 2013, 06:05:48 PM
Fiat means decree which is the anti-thesis to Bitcoin. That is why it bothers me.
Well you have the full right to stay bothered by it. Me, I'm going to keep saying what I want, as my ignore button clearly reflects. And you are certainly free to join my entourage any time you like.
Love this thread btw. <3
November 14, 2013, 06:04:26 PM
Fiat means decree which is the anti-thesis to Bitcoin. That is why it bothers me.
Well you have the full right to stay bothered by it. Me, I'm going to keep saying what I want, as my ignore button clearly reflects. And you are certainly free to join my entourage any time you like.
November 14, 2013, 06:03:36 PM
If you actually followed the source wikipedia links to, it says the following:
Quote
I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.
So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.
Not sure why this bothers some of you so much. There is government fiat, now digital fiat, clam shell fiat, etc, etc. As freethink just said, fiat isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's not bad that USD is fiat in that sense. What's bad about USD is that it is debt based. It enters the system as debt. It would actually be nice if the treasury would just issue sovereign money and break capital holders grip on our economy.
The decree is right here: http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Everyone here has accepted bitcoin as the implementation of that decree.
November 14, 2013, 06:02:13 PM
November 14, 2013, 06:01:13 PM
If you actually followed the source wikipedia links to, it says the following:
Quote
I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.
So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.
Not sure why this bothers some of you so much. There is government fiat, now digital fiat, clam shell fiat, etc, etc. As freethink just said, fiat isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's not bad that USD is fiat in that sense. What's bad about USD is that it is debt based. It enters the system as debt. It would actually be nice if the treasury would just issue sovereign money and break capital holders grip on our economy.
November 14, 2013, 06:01:03 PM
The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.
No, I will not avoid "linking" the word fiat with Bitcoin because that is what Bitcoin or any other currency that has no intrinsic value is. Fiat. You may not like that and even choose only the definitions that support your position, but it is what it is. Fiat.
http://goo.gl/fQX918
And he is using the definition from wikipedia's "Fiat Money" page. I'm not saying I agree with him, but he already linked to his definition, so linking to a conflicting definition won't get you anywhere.
Great point
November 14, 2013, 05:59:37 PM
If you actually followed the source wikipedia links to, it says the following:
Quote
I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.
So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.
Not sure why this bothers some of you so much. There is government fiat, now digital fiat, clam shell fiat, etc, etc. As freethink just said, fiat isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's not bad that USD is fiat in that sense. What's bad about USD is that it is debt based. It enters the system as debt. It would actually be nice if the treasury would just issue sovereign money and break capital holders grip on our economy. But they can't/won't because they are in debt to the capital holders. Some of you worry about the small things and don't really see the big picture at work here.
November 14, 2013, 05:57:54 PM
The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.
No, I will not avoid "linking" the word fiat with Bitcoin because that is what Bitcoin or any other currency that has no intrinsic value is. Fiat. You may not like that and even choose only the definitions that support your position, but it is what it is. Fiat.
http://goo.gl/fQX918
And he is using the definition from wikipedia's "Fiat Money" page. I'm not saying I agree with him, but he already linked to his definition, so linking to a conflicting definition won't get you anywhere.
November 14, 2013, 05:54:21 PM
2) The word you are looking for is "fiduciary". "Fiat" means "let it be" and thus means that someone is in control.
fiat
ˈfiːat,ˈfʌɪat/
noun
1.
a formal authorization or proposition; a decree.
"the reforms left most prices fixed by government fiat"
Fiat money has been defined variously as:
any money declared by a government to be legal tender.[1]
state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[2]
money without intrinsic value.[3][4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
Bitcoin has ZERO value, except what we all agree it is worth. Just like USD. In fact, given the fabric USD is printed on, it's fair to say USD is actually "worth" more.
Quote
I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.
So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.
November 14, 2013, 05:45:17 PM
See, I don't mind criminals using it. It will probably be one of the biggest user's of bitcoin in the end. I suppose I could feel ethically bad for believing that, but at the end of the day it's not believers in bitcoin responsibility to police the world and how it uses currency.
I actually don't mind that either. Especially for drugs, because I think drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place.
I'm just saying that while US regulations might seem depressing, they wont really be very effective. The cat is out of the bag and if they succeed in sweet-talking bitcoin devs to accept tracking, the next crypto with a more strict privacy outlook will be just around the corner. No matter what US gov does, people will have more freedom because of cryptocurrency.
November 14, 2013, 05:41:19 PM
Here's why we shouldn't be too worried about bitcoin being "ruined" by allowing US government to track it:
1. It will help bitcoin go mainstream and give it a better reputation among laymen
2. This means all those investing in bitcoin will become filthy rich
3. Liberals, anarchists and those who need bitcoin for criminal use will just develop an alt-coin with focus around anonymity
4. US government looses. It has made bitcoin mainstream without gaining any benefits because of the alts.
1. It will help bitcoin go mainstream and give it a better reputation among laymen
2. This means all those investing in bitcoin will become filthy rich
3. Liberals, anarchists and those who need bitcoin for criminal use will just develop an alt-coin with focus around anonymity
4. US government looses. It has made bitcoin mainstream without gaining any benefits because of the alts.
See, I don't mind criminals using it. It will probably be one of the biggest user's of bitcoin in the end. I suppose I could feel ethically bad for believing that, but at the end of the day it's not believers in bitcoin responsibility to police the world and how it uses currency.
November 14, 2013, 05:40:50 PM
The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.
No, I will not avoid "linking" the word fiat with Bitcoin because that is what Bitcoin or any other currency that has no intrinsic value is. Fiat. You may not like that and even choose only the definitions that support your position, but it is what it is. Fiat.
Think I mentioned tally sticks in an earlier thread. bitcoin is an advanced version of that concept. iou's 2.0
nothing wrong with fiat per se. i dare say that even fractional reserve banking isn't the devil it made out to be. It provided capital to business where there was none. the issue has been our economy became dependant on junk futures.
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