Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 32128.

Erdogan

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Kj1 on October 21, 2013, 02:18:18 PM

so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

Don't worry. There is a market with trades every minute. It means anybody can buy, anybody can sell whenever they want.

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2324

Merit: 1801

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Adrian-x

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on October 21, 2013, 02:45:55 PM

Quote from: SheHadMANHands on October 21, 2013, 02:41:20 PM

You know, it's not difficult to buy something with bitcoin and immediately replenish your stash by converting an equivalent amount from fiat to bitcoin. If you're worried about spending your bitcoins.

+1, 'bitcoins are too valuable to spend' is bullshit. If they are too valuable to spend, it means the current price is too low, thus market forces would drive it up and fix that problem.

Good! That settles it, no BS I'll offload @ $1598 then. My problem is mastering time, in reality it's an illusion but when it comes to Bitcoin it's dependent on market conciseness and that takes time. So yes they're too valuable to spend but I will sell a few to help it spread. It's a good thing value is a subjective judgment.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: bitcodo on October 21, 2013, 12:25:23 PM

Quote

Digital Currency
Virtual reality may exist only in science fiction, but consumers now are able to purchase goods and services with virtual money such as Bitcoin, PP Coin and other digital currencies.

http://www.dfi.wa.gov/consumers/topscams.htm

Huh

buy PPC?

If it goes again @0.02 BUY!!

EDIT: Oh shit, it is @0.0017!!

rpietila

donator

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1036

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on October 21, 2013, 02:39:55 PM

Quote from: Sword Smith on October 21, 2013, 02:30:30 PM

You are forgetting an important dynamic: Interest rates. When consumption falls, savings rise and there are thus more money to be lent out. That means that the supply of money for loans rises and the price for loans fall which is the same as the interest rate falling. That means that it becomes more attractive to invest with borrowed money and this increases efficiency (if the investment is sound) which then increases the purchasing power and thus increases consumption. Yes. Capitalism is cool!

Yah, but with bitcoin you might argue that it will increase in value constantly (not at the same pace as these days obviously, but due to increased productivity combined with a stable money supply), therefore just holding the coins without loaning them out is a viable option.
Any loan would have to have a positive rate that compensates for the risk of a bad loan. Even if these rates are low, due to BTC appreciation, only loans that are able to give a significant gain in productivity/reward will be viable, thus the overall amount of loans would go down.

Bitcoin is exactly what we need: as long as its value goes up and/or is unstable, it is impossible to have any loaning. Afterwards the option to withdraw your bitcoins from banks and put them in paper wallets, forces the interest rate up. The result is a low level of very healthy loaning.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Richy_T on October 21, 2013, 11:17:17 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction of 350 by end November. I want to say 400 but I'm going to hedge. Could be as late as mid December also.

No TA. Just something in the wind...

I am all out @325...

Spaceman_Spiff

legendary

Activity: 1638

Merit: 1001

₪``Campaign Manager´´₪

Quote from: SheHadMANHands on October 21, 2013, 02:41:20 PM

You know, it's not difficult to buy something with bitcoin and immediately replenish your stash by converting an equivalent amount from fiat to bitcoin. If you're worried about spending your bitcoins.

+1, 'bitcoins are too valuable to spend' is bullshit. If they are too valuable to spend, it means the current price is too low, thus market forces would drive it up and fix that problem.

SheHadMANHands

legendary

Activity: 1168

Merit: 1000

You know, it's not difficult to buy something with bitcoin and immediately replenish your stash by converting an equivalent amount from fiat to bitcoin. If you're worried about spending your bitcoins.

Spaceman_Spiff

legendary

Activity: 1638

Merit: 1001

₪``Campaign Manager´´₪

Quote from: Sword Smith on October 21, 2013, 02:30:30 PM

You are forgetting an important dynamic: Interest rates. When consumption falls, savings rise and there are thus more money to be lent out. That means that the supply of money for loans rises and the price for loans fall which is the same as the interest rate falling. That means that it becomes more attractive to invest with borrowed money and this increases efficiency (if the investment is sound) which then increases the purchasing power and thus increases consumption. Yes. Capitalism is cool!

Yah, but with bitcoin you might argue that it will increase in value constantly (not at the same pace as these days obviously, but due to increased productivity combined with a stable money supply), therefore just holding the coins without loaning them out is a viable option.
Any loan would have to have a positive rate that compensates for the risk of a bad loan. Even if these rates are low, due to BTC appreciation, only loans that are able to give a significant gain in productivity/reward will be viable, thus the overall amount of loans would go down.

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1013

Quote from: thezerg on October 21, 2013, 02:27:01 PM

But what you've mentioned is the achilles heel of a "sound" currency. It is theorized that during recessions/depressions people tend to hoard it, spending as little as possible -- saving it in case the recession continues. This creates a negative feedback of reduced consumption -> fewer jobs -> more reduced consumption.

Using inflation to boost consumption is like using cocaine to boost work productivity. The negative effects of coming down off a cocaine high is only a problem for someone who gets high on cocaine in the first place.

The "negative feedback" that economists worry about only happens because consumption had previously been pumped up to unsustainably high levels. When you stop trying to centrally plan the economy, especially by tampering with the money supply, then you don't have to worry about the negative side effects that central planning causes.

Miz4r

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1000

Quote from: thezerg on October 21, 2013, 02:27:01 PM

Quote from: Kj1 on October 21, 2013, 02:18:18 PM

so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

Why buy a laptop? Because if you wait a year it would be a lot more powerful, touchscreen, better camera etc for cheaper. There comes a time when people need to buy stuff almost regardless of future price performance. And of course some people are always thinking we are near the top. And also the price isn't going to keep rising like this forever. It'll flatten out eventually and at that time exchange of BTC we become more common.

But what you've mentioned is the achilles heel of a "sound" currency. It is theorized that during recessions/depressions people tend to hoard it, spending as little as possible -- saving it in case the recession continues. This creates a negative feedback of reduced consumption -> fewer jobs -> more reduced consumption. But on the other hand, in this highly populous, resource limited world careful consumption might be better in the long run than triggering growth that is not connected to greater underlying resource efficiency.

With our modern technology and the increase of automation we shouldn't need to work as much as we used to anyway. Governments are trying to swim upstream by still clinging to outdated models of economy and prosperity. It's frustating to watch how slow the realisation process is that we have to change things on a fundamental level. Good thing bitcoin is here to push them a little bit and awaken/inspire the minds.

CEG5952

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Buy and sell bitcoins,

Quote from: thezerg on October 21, 2013, 02:27:01 PM

Quote from: Kj1 on October 21, 2013, 02:18:18 PM

so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

Why buy a laptop? Because if you wait a year it would be a lot more powerful, touchscreen, better camera etc for cheaper. There comes a time when people need to buy stuff almost regardless of future price performance. And of course some people are always thinking we are near the top. And also the price isn't going to keep rising like this forever. It'll flatten out eventually and at that time exchange of BTC we become more common.

assuming 100% of my real-life assets aren't in bitcoin, i would just use USD and hold my bitcoin....

rpietila

donator

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1036

Quote from: MAbtc on October 21, 2013, 12:52:46 PM

It's funny seeing a lot of the uber bulls who more or less disappeared after the April crash coming back talking about 5-10x growth by next [day, week, etc]. I'm getting nervous reading this crap.

Touché. But it is equally true that the mighty host of bears that abounded after the crash, has all but disappeared by now also.

Sword Smith

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 286

Neptune, Scalable Privacy

Quote from: thezerg on October 21, 2013, 02:27:01 PM

Quote from: Kj1 on October 21, 2013, 02:18:18 PM

so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

But what you've mentioned is the achilles heel of a "sound" currency. It is theorized that during recessions/depressions people tend to hoard it, spending as little as possible -- saving it in case the recession continues. This creates a negative feedback of reduced consumption -> fewer jobs -> more reduced consumption. But on the other hand, in this highly populous, resource limited world careful consumption might be better in the long run than triggering growth that is not connected to greater underlying resource efficiency.

You are forgetting an important dynamic: Interest rates. When consumption falls, savings rise and there are thus more money to be lent out. That means that the supply of money for loans rises and the price for loans fall which is the same as the interest rate falling. That means that it becomes more attractive to invest with borrowed money and this increases efficiency (if the investment is sound) which then increases the purchasing power and thus increases consumption. Yes. Capitalism is cool!

yefi

legendary

Activity: 2842

Merit: 1511

Quote from: adamstgBit on October 21, 2013, 10:57:13 AM

lol

i quote myself, cuz ya Cool

I think you're entitled to given that you foresaw 180 this year. Incredibly, here we are. Shocked

thezerg

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1010

Quote from: Kj1 on October 21, 2013, 02:18:18 PM

so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

Why buy a laptop? Because if you wait a year it would be a lot more powerful, touchscreen, better camera etc for cheaper. There comes a time when people need to buy stuff almost regardless of future price performance. And of course some people are always thinking we are near the top. And also the price isn't going to keep rising like this forever. It'll flatten out eventually and at that time exchange of BTC we become more common.

But what you've mentioned is the achilles heel of a "sound" currency. It is theorized that during recessions/depressions people tend to hoard it, spending as little as possible -- saving it in case the recession continues. This creates a negative feedback of reduced consumption -> fewer jobs -> more reduced consumption. But on the other hand, in this highly populous, resource limited world careful consumption might be better in the long run than triggering growth that is not connected to greater underlying resource efficiency.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on October 21, 2013, 02:21:00 PM

Quote from: Kj1 on October 21, 2013, 02:18:18 PM

so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

Your question is hard to understand.. why would the price rising affect its usefulness for purchasing goods?

If bitcoin rises, it would have been better to pay with fiat.

Miz4r

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Kj1 on October 21, 2013, 02:18:18 PM

so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

The time for BTC to actually act as a real currency are still years away, this is the time of great volatility and opportunity for those of us who can see what the future of money is.

CEG5952

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Buy and sell bitcoins,

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on October 21, 2013, 02:21:00 PM

Quote from: Kj1 on October 21, 2013, 02:18:18 PM

so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

Your question is hard to understand.. why would the price rising affect its usefulness for purchasing goods?

he's saying he doesn't want to use it as currency since it is such a volatile investment vehicle (commodity)

VolanicEruptor

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Kj1 on October 21, 2013, 02:18:18 PM

so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

Your question is hard to understand.. why would the price rising affect its usefulness for purchasing goods?

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 32128. (Read 26472621 times)