Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 5322. (Read 26709933 times)

Truth is, I've never seen a deck and I think I've only ever seen one punch-card in the wild that wasn't behind glass in a museum. Just some random info I picked up along the way. I got in in the 8-bit days so maybe I'd put my key on one of these:



I've got an idea about making something out of glass sometime. It wouldn't be as hard-wearing as stainless steel but would have some advantages. 256 bits is only 16x16

That PDF I linked says each reshuffle adds 46 IIRC, Its a interesting read but beyond me.

 Wow!  That is some serious inflation!

Got to run to work, don't have the time for proper quoting, apologies... Very quickly commenting on some posts, not disregarding any other replies:

@JJG:

I was ready to reply "see what I mean?" until I checked the price and saw it was still above $40k. That's good. It sure is temporary though, as we will exceed it soon. proudhon's "right" predictions are temporary too, more often than not.

@Dabs:

I side with Jay on the afterlife part. I would even say that the odds of it existing are far fewer than 1%. Perhaps 0+% (the + is for being scientific). As for your bet on it existing or not and where it will land you after you die, it's an interesting argument that many people use (i.e., winning this life vs. an eternal afterlife), but, according to almost all religious texts, this mindset will not land you in a nice place after you die, so you'd better pray there's no afterlife...

@Richy_T:

cAPSLOCK gave his reply to your bank comments, I agree with him. I'm not saying I like banks, but I see them as necessary for the majority of people. I think El Salvador will be a good test case for this.

its actually a half trillion...there was a typo in the early print


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/14/jamie-dimon-jpmorgan-is-hoarding-cash-because-very-good-chance-inflation-here-to-stay.html

https://twitter.com/777Irvine/status/1404593401710841857

https://www.microstrategy.com/en/investor-relations/financial-documents/microstrategy-launches-at-the-market-securities-offering-for-flexibility-to-sell-up-to-1b-of-its-class-a-common-stock-over-time_06-14-2021

lol Jamie.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dimon-jpmorgan-is-sitting-on-about-500-million-in-cash-waiting-to-invest-in-higher-rates-11623700397


 


 

I've seen hollerith code stacks that had lines on them like that and never knew why!

Thanks for the info man, sometimes simple solutions are best.

Although you couldn't really use that deck of cards without getting bagged for a marked deck Lol

Maybe I put too many cards in?? I was using the Ian Coleman BIP39 tool.

But to the point of jokers and rules.. you can also just add 6 more cards to get to 256bit, I think.  So you could add  six cards for a second deck.

I think another way to increase entropy is to shuffle between draws.  So you can have repeating cards. (Creates a poisson distribution like POW is)  And if you had enough decks of cards you could also build this "custom deck' just don't try to deal a hand of poker with it.

Explanation

Total agreement.  And the scenario you mention is a real threat, I agree.  But i do not think we get the via the slippery slope.

The government does not have much time to try that though, because at a certain point it will foment revolution.  maybe not yet...

 ...after removing that tattoo from your forehead of course.

Old trick from the punch-card days: Put the cards in the order you want then draw a diagonal line on the side of the deck. Then you can shuffle the cards (in fact, it's preferable to disguise the line) and can put them back into order later.

Interesting Idea as long as security didn't make a change if they decided to inspect. Lol

The math is beyond me so I did a google and found this.


Link to PDF:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi0rKvk1ZjxAhW6GFkFHYSYAFEQFjAEegQICBAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcourses.physics.ucsd.edu%2F2012%2FFall%2Fphysics140a%2FHOMEWORK%2FSOL01.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3qKRp6w5ELJMeThariP1rX


And



https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/41886/entropy-measurement-from-shuffled-cards

So I'm just wondering where you found 232 bits of entropy?

Either way its damn tough to crack so should be a good way to transfer a key as long as no one knows and your going to move the funds as soon as you get where your going. Interesting thought. You could increase with the jokers and rules card as well.

Right. But how did that go? Even before fiat, there are stories of gold being over-subscribed by notes.

Gold has the issue that it's heavy, hard to divide and inconvenient to use for commerce. It's pretty much destined to be locked up in a vault somewhere under the control of others. Bitcoin, whether you believe it's ultimately going to be main chain or mainly second-layer transacted doesn't have that problem. We should solve the issues that Bitcoin has while keeping it Bitcoin, not resort to the traps and follies of old just because it's convenient. Let's not crawl back and lick the hands of our former masters.


That foundation is human nature. Until we have better humans, "Vires in Numeris".

I do actually have a concern and suspicion that at some point, us ordinary mortals will be banned from transacting directly in Bitcoin much as ownership of gold (in useful quantities) has been outlawed before. Of course, being Bitcoin, they can't stop us transacting in it but if everyone else is in custodial accounts and they're not allowed to transact with you, where does that leave you?

Explanation

There are two reasons we are not right back to where we are.

1.  The underlying system is sound.
2.  You are not forced to participate in any of these banks, and can indeed be your OWN bank if you wish.

I think that is the distinction that is part of the solution you are predicting.  Custodians can compete to offer advantages to users.  Security, reliability, etc.

The problem is not primarily that we use promissory notes.  But that the foundation on which those promises were made was faulty.

Would you not agree that gold backed currencies had a stronger footing than ones backed by debt?  The problem will be if and when governments figure out how to regain control over the base currency.  I think bitcoin is going to make that VERY difficult.

Explanation

You know... as a fellow card player.  A deck of cards is one of the great analogies to a bitcoin key.  In fact a (well) shuffled deck dealt out offers 232 bits of entropy.  Just a few bits shy of a 24 word seed!  It can actually produce a 21 word seed.

But people do not realize how fantastically many possible combinations of a deck of card has (52! or ~8e67) In fact, did you know that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that a properly shuffled deck will repeat a sequence ever dealt from another properly shuffled deck?  As in, ever?  

For fun I actually dealt this sequence from this deck of bicycle cards sitting next to me:

6h9sQd2c5hAd4c7hTsKd3c8sJdAc4h7c9hQs2d5c8hJsTdKc3h6s9dQc2h5s8dJcAh4s7dTcKh3s6d9 cQh2s5d8cJhAs4d7sThKs3d6c  
-or-
6♥ 9♠ Q♦ 2♣ 5♥ A♦ 4♣ 7♥ T♠ K♦ 3♣ 8♠ J♦ A♣ 4♥ 7♣ 9♥ Q♠ 2♦ 5♣ 8♥ J♠ T♦ K♣ 3♥ 6♠ 9♦ Q♣ 2♥ 5♠ 8♦ J♣ A♥ 4♠ 7♦ T♣ K♥ 3♠ 6♦ 9♣ Q♥ 2♠ 5♦ 8♣ J♥ A♠ 4♦ 7♠ T♥ K♠ 3♦ 6♣
-or-
then viable coral multiply puppy inquiry clap camera rebel smile fish tackle pull pledge regular embark session inner select knock furnace

The first address in the BIP44 sequence would be 12hZ1awWPMo4tGfYeHqZL2bhJr3DRafsqK (or bc1qpfaa7ms34k42jwl8eymdnxxcm2hug7d35dvp3q if you want to save on fees).  You can use this seed along with the password I made you!

If one were traveling to another place and needed a way to transport a private key in a very inconspicuous way one could just have a deck of cards in their luggage in a specific order.  And it would have just as much randomness as a 21 word seed phrase.

Not suggesting people use cards to store their seeds.  Too fragile, and abstracted.  But still a possible thing.