Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 5324. (Read 26709950 times)
June 14, 2021, 04:44:12 PM
June 14, 2021, 04:17:10 PM
proudhon was right. Going above $40k so briefly does not count. We effectively never crossed it. It was just a glitch. An outlier.
Math & science confirmed? Such low?
Math & science confirmed? Such low?
This one doesn't count either.
Just feels so temporary.. right?
June 14, 2021, 04:09:43 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/bitcoin-surges-above-40k-after-latest-jpm-hitpiece
jpmorgue futures are squealing their book, 40k must be hurting
... bitcoin futures are in backwardation which is supposed to mean there is a disconnect in futures pricing 'expectations' versus spot pricing .... or more realistically means someone is going to take losses on bearish bitcoin futures bets if bitcoin spot prices keep rising
... this is how the price management and price expectations management games are going to go, with fiat cash-settled futures, hopefully bitcoin hodlers taking the coins, not your keys not your coins will blow this shit up
Quote
This is an unusual development and a reflection of how weak Bitcoin demand is at the moment from institutional investors that tend to use regulated CME futures contracts to gain exposure to Bitcoin.
jpmorgue futures are squealing their book, 40k must be hurting
... bitcoin futures are in backwardation which is supposed to mean there is a disconnect in futures pricing 'expectations' versus spot pricing .... or more realistically means someone is going to take losses on bearish bitcoin futures bets if bitcoin spot prices keep rising
... this is how the price management and price expectations management games are going to go, with fiat cash-settled futures, hopefully bitcoin hodlers taking the coins, not your keys not your coins will blow this shit up
June 14, 2021, 04:01:34 PM
June 14, 2021, 03:42:42 PM
HODL stays the same
Cheers
June 14, 2021, 03:40:26 PM
JEEEZUUUUZZ! prodhun was right!
June 14, 2021, 03:15:49 PM
June 14, 2021, 03:01:26 PM
June 14, 2021, 02:48:00 PM
proudhon was right. Going above $40k so briefly does not count. We effectively never crossed it. It was just a glitch. An outlier.
Math & science confirmed? Such low?
Math & science confirmed? Such low?
June 14, 2021, 02:26:29 PM
I just enjoy picking on you a little bit jjg.
I think you understand its all in good fun.
I think you understand its all in good fun.
June 14, 2021, 02:20:41 PM
Didn't you end up being wrong in citing this one, bitebits?
Surely there was a wee bit of a down right after you posted it from $39,500 to $38k, then there was some flat for a few hours then an up to $41k - and currently we are bouncing around $40k - about 10 hours after your post.
[...]
YOU GENIUS MF!
I looked again.
It's not helping.
Feels like grade school, again....
everyone knows except mmmmeeeeee.
Look again. just one and last hint: it's a test how flexible you are - mindset like.
Oh? I feel so dummy on the inside... (even though I feel o.k on the outside).
yes.. upside-down.. ok... fine. You little tricksters...
It's like version 1 of the vroom helicopter.. that is now fixed.
I looked again.
It's not helping.
Feels like grade school, again....
everyone knows except mmmmeeeeee.
Aren't you the smartiest of smartie pants, toxic-moxic.. joining the "club" of know it alls.
June 14, 2021, 02:13:22 PM
This will probably be the last time to sell as high as ~$40k. Great permanent exit point if you missed exiting above $40k. Deposit to a safe low interest savings account and you'll exceed the future performance of bitcoin by a lot.
My nigga you smart, you want us to dump so you can buy them cheap
My nigaaaaaaaaaa🧐🧐🧐🧐
June 14, 2021, 02:04:46 PM
if there's an afterlife, which I very much doubt there is).
I am a big fan of the afterlife too... but what are the odds.. pretty damned low. I would be surprised (shocked) if such odds were even as high as 1%.
The majority of people need a centralized custodian to take care of their wealth. They need a customer service phone number. Someone to call when they mess up and want to reverse an unintended transaction. Somewhere to go, to talk to someone. Being your own bank puts total control in the hands of the end-user, and that's not usually an end-user's task. At least not in the current state of things.
Fuck that reminds me of my long-ass conversation with my friends the other day, and I remember saying a few things several times and then figuring that they understood what I was saying because I was attempting to frame the matter in various basic ways, and these are relatively smart and successful guys.. but a few times they said things that caused me to realize that they were not understanding some relatively basic ideas that I had been attempting to communicate.. and a few times I just went back and attempted to clarify what I meant about a few of the terms that I had been using so that we were all on the same page, and then other times, I just had to give up or abandon some of the areas that I was trying to elaborate on because neither one of them was getting it, even after I repeated the idea in a variety of ways and even after I tried to dumb it down to very basic concepts.. like what I had thought were ELI5 kind of levels (while trying to NOT come off as patronizing - which also did slip through on more than one occasion, for sure). For sure, people need help, and I am not even blaming anyone for that.
Bitcoin is like a high-voltage line. It possesses so much energy, can do so many things, but can also kill you instantly (or, rather, your wealth, which is the same thing really). Society is not yet ready for it, and I'm not quite sure it will ever be able to fully apply the "not your keys, not your Bitcoin" principle.
Don't give up on society... It seems to me that bitcoin is doing so well is because some parts of society are actually ready for bitcoin.. and sure there are going to be transitionary vehicles and a variety of options, but if society was not ready, bitcoin would have already failed... but neither has it failed it is likely more successful than even satoshi himself would have speculated - even though surely within the realm of possibilities but kind of playing out even more bullish than reasonably expected.
Keys are too hot to handle, it seems, and most people will not want to directly deal with them. I predict that we will see this happening in El Salvador. The Lightning Network (a higher-level, off-chain solution) is already picking up speed there. It will be interesting to see how things play out, but I very much doubt that the average Salvadorian will be able to deal with keys, seeds, multisigs, Trezors, BIP39 and paper wallets.
I am NOT denying your characterization there, AlcoHoDL, but at the same time some of them are going to learn and even learn well, and others will learn in modest kinds of ways and others will learn very little and even slowly, but the longer that they have bitcoin and are "playing around" with it, the smarter and smarter they are going to become about not only using it but likely even finding new and creative ways to use it that will likely add to the bitcoin ecosystem.. and even possibly create some attack vectors, too... I am not even saying that all of the learning or the finding of ways to use bitcoin are going to be positive.. but they are going to continue to grow the ecosystem.. and perhaps we will have another satoshi come out of the El Salvador additional bitcoin infrastructure or a roger ver or a craig wright, or a Adam Beck or a Greg Maxwell... or some combination of those all in one, including with a kind of volcano (perhaps explosive?) expertise..
The good thing though, is that those of us who want to be their own bank, can now choose to do so. I imagine virtually all WOers to be in this category. In the traditional monetary system, there was no choice, you had to deal with the banking system one way or another. The only option was stashing cash or gold or other precious object, with all the drawbacks and the danger this entails. Bitcoin has given the world the freedom to choose how to manage their wealth. But "freedom to choose" does not mean "ability to do" something, just like freedom of speech does not make all of us grand journalists. Some people will still blindly believe what they read in the papers and will keep being brainwashed by the mass media.
What else is new in terms of having a variety of options, and some people being more capable of using some options as compared/contrasted with other options. I surely would not claim to be any kind of expert in terms of even using or knowing about various options that are available to me or might be available to me with a bit of POW (or attempts to research or develop the matter).
Bitcoin is like Tor for money. It puts you behind the steering wheel, but you'd better know how to drive.
Sure.. but you know that not all of us have to use the Tor version.. We could use the dumbed-down version or we might design our own ways of interfacing with king daddy, or we might have some combination of interfaces that we learn along the way or even try to match our ways of interfacing with our personality traits or discover traits that we did not know that we had.
June 14, 2021, 02:01:25 PM
June 14, 2021, 02:00:39 PM
Good discussion above on key management and the perils of inheritance. This is where my brain has been this weekend too.
[...]
Hold on... we are just getting started. Aha! You might say. Use multisig!
I like it. This method can use "geolocation entropy" to our advantage! Now we can reduce much of our risk by storing our seeds in multiple places. And even if you stored the password WITH the seed (which I do not like, still) an attacker would not be able to get to anything that requires more than 1 key to access.
And yet, this too has some hidden risks. Did you know that you need all of your XPUBs (or zpubs or ypubs) if you are going to use the "x" number of keys in an x of y setup? In other words... There are scenarios where you can have 2 of 3 seeds in a 2 of 3 multisig setup and and be shit out of luck. So, you have to safeguard all of your xpubs as well. So you could store all three x pubs with each seed, but then you have also reduced your security somewhat. Because all an attacker needs in that scenario is two seeds, where if the XPUBs are elsewhere then the attacker cannot access anything with just 2. Now a view only electrum wallet or the like can take care of this. Gives you a way to send coins to storage and also a way to backup your 3 XPUBS. That view only wallet could be encrypted and stored electronically in an email, or USB key etc (This is it's own rabbit hole of risks that I will not go down lol).
Whew, I know. [...]
[...]
Hold on... we are just getting started.
Aha! You might say. Use multisig!I like it. This method can use "geolocation entropy" to our advantage! Now we can reduce much of our risk by storing our seeds in multiple places. And even if you stored the password WITH the seed (which I do not like, still) an attacker would not be able to get to anything that requires more than 1 key to access.
And yet, this too has some hidden risks. Did you know that you need all of your XPUBs (or zpubs or ypubs) if you are going to use the "x" number of keys in an x of y setup? In other words... There are scenarios where you can have 2 of 3 seeds in a 2 of 3 multisig setup and and be shit out of luck. So, you have to safeguard all of your xpubs as well. So you could store all three x pubs with each seed, but then you have also reduced your security somewhat. Because all an attacker needs in that scenario is two seeds, where if the XPUBs are elsewhere then the attacker cannot access anything with just 2. Now a view only electrum wallet or the like can take care of this. Gives you a way to send coins to storage and also a way to backup your 3 XPUBS. That view only wallet could be encrypted and stored electronically in an email, or USB key etc (This is it's own rabbit hole of risks that I will not go down lol).
Whew, I know. [...]
Indeed whew, it is not easy. Casa made it one of their premium business plans for $5k per year. Still I think if you want to do it yourself, multisig is the way to go. Not only because of sudden inheritance or extortion, but as well no more fear over losing your seed, no worries about malware on a single machine or a compromised hardware wallet vendor (use multiple brands in the setup), less likely copy/pasting an incorrect addresses, etc etc.
Regarding the bold part, I don't really see the issue (apart from nosy supposedly dormant cosigners able to create a watch-only wallet and see the entire balance). If you feel having retrieved two seeds should not be sufficient (2/3 multisig), just go for a 3/5 multisig setup.
What you could do in your 2/3 multisig setup is splitting the seeds using Shamir's Secret Sharing, made user friendly by Trezor. Each seed can be split into 2-of-3, and each sheet containing one of the XPUB's. It requires the sheets to be stored at separate locations though, which increases the chance losing access to all three XPUB's.
June 14, 2021, 01:55:57 PM
This will probably be the last time to sell as high as ~$40k. Great permanent exit point if you missed exiting above $40k. Deposit to a safe low interest savings account and you'll exceed the future performance of bitcoin by a lot.
My nigga you smart, you want us to dump so you can buy them cheap
My nigaaaaaaaaaa🧐🧐🧐🧐
June 14, 2021, 01:39:47 PM
I looked again.
It's not helping.
Feels like grade school, again....
everyone knows except mmmmeeeeee.
June 14, 2021, 01:39:09 PM
This will probably be the last time to sell as high as ~$40k. Great permanent exit point if you missed exiting above $40k. Deposit to a safe low interest savings account and you'll exceed the future performance of bitcoin by a lot.
June 14, 2021, 01:38:45 PM
June 14, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
Didn't you end up being wrong in citing this one, bitebits?
Surely there was a wee bit of a down right after you posted it from $39,500 to $38k, then there was some flat for a few hours then an up to $41k - and currently we are bouncing around $40k - about 10 hours after your post.
[...]
YOU GENIUS MF!
I looked again.
It's not helping.
Feels like grade school, again....
everyone knows except mmmmeeeeee.
Look again. just one and last hint: it's a test how flexible you are - mindset like.
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