2 of them were triggert ...
more bitcoin ...
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 6111. (Read 26711588 times)
February 12, 2021, 09:42:02 AM
2 of them were triggert ...
more bitcoin ... February 12, 2021, 09:30:52 AM
Now, having thought about this, I can think of one argument that would negate some of the above: If you are arguing specifically that renewables reduce the albedo of the earth, causing less radiation (and thus heat) to be reflected back into space I'll give you that side of the argument as a possibility.. I'll need to do some research to see if this is actually the case.
One of the only valid critiques of PoW mining, but I don't think we are even remotely close to it being an issue
I wish I would have thought to add this to my original reply.. yes, in the grand scheme of things, even if renewables reduce the albedo, I think the amount would be somewhat less than a rounding error and have an absolutely negligible effect when compared to other environmental concerns.
February 12, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
It sucks that all the money seems to still flow into alts. Look at Binance coin. Yesterday I thought it will crash after that pump. Today it gained another 50%. I feel like everybody is getting rich while I wait for bitcoin to make 5% lol.
I know shitcoins and all but damn ı wish I would have bought some when they were cheap. So had lots of money now to buy more bitcoin.
I know shitcoins and all but damn ı wish I would have bought some when they were cheap. So had lots of money now to buy more bitcoin.
You are pathetic, UnDerDoG81.
It's like you have not learned anything about bitcoin in more than 7 years.
Lot's of shitcoiners and nocoiners have gotten distracted by the same bullshit and enticed into gambling on supposed gains of various shitcoins rather than having a solid bitcoin plan.. and if you have a solid bitcoin plan, you don't have to worry if it goes up another 5% or not.. because you should already be in solid profits.
Focus, UnDerDoG81.
Focus ur lil selfie.
You trust Michael Saylor and think he is honest in his opinion? -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oO8VlNFv7Y
Or does he talk people and investors into Bitcoin, maximizes his profits and gets out on the top of the cycle?
Or does he talk people and investors into Bitcoin, maximizes his profits and gets out on the top of the cycle?
Oh gawd.... Another example of your level of dumb, UnDerDoG81.
Ever heared of reflecting your self onto others?
February 12, 2021, 09:21:37 AM
It's the selective pointing of the finger that triggers me, especially if it's all about virtue signalling about climate change.
The bit that annoys me is when they say "oh but BTC mining uses up the energy of a small country without value"...we are replacing the entire legacy global financial ecosystem, and then adding value on top!
I wouldn't be concerned about energy usage if it hit even 100% of global energy spent on legacy finance...it would be a much more efficient process than the legacy system, and it's actually possible to measure it; literally the only reason we are having this conversation..
That's not even considering the push it's giving us towards mass adoption of renewable energy
Now, having thought about this, I can think of one argument that would negate some of the above: If you are arguing specifically that renewables reduce the albido of the earth, causing less radiation (and thus heat) to be reflected back into space I'll give you that side of the argument as a possibility.. I'll need to do some research to see if this is actually the case.
One of the only valid critiques of PoW mining, but I don't think we are even remotely close to it being an issue
February 12, 2021, 09:20:06 AM
Can we keep climate change FUD (directed to Bitcoin - FUD) out of this thread, please?
It's actually good to try to educate people on this and how it works as far as bitcoin is concerned.
What do miners do? They mine.
What do miners "pay"? They pay the cost of electricity to mine.
So what is it they want to do? They want to lower their cost of electricity so they pay less to mine. They want to keep more profit. Some want to HODL the difference.
A lot of miners tend to migrate (physically) their machines to locations where electricity is cheap, or where there is no other user of that energy. They tend to look for renewable sources of energy, or other natural kind of stuff, like hydro, tidal, solar, wind ... maybe even nuclear. Energy that would just be wasted or not used because they are so far from the rest of humanity or civilization.
See, the actual mining machines do not need to be located where people live. They can be in remote places. Some places are naturally colder, like both ends of the earth, the north and south poles, Iceland, Greenland, Russia, Canada, Santa's Village, whatever.
It's not as big an issue as the naysayers think. Besides, miners who mine where they live, they pay for that electricity anyway, so what's the big deal? Humans are willing to pay $1 per kilowatt to live where they live. Mining machines tend to look for whereever the cost of electricity is below 1 cent per kilowatt hour. 2 is okay. 1 is good. Zero is better.
All this energy not being used for any other purpose then goes on to securing the bitcoin network.
Now, we can all sleep at night knowing our money, or safe haven asset, one that has been performing better than anything else in the market, is secure, and will likely be secure for the next one hundred years.
I'd also like to add that I take exception to the "heat" argument with regards specifically and only to renewable energy. For renewables, heat release to environment is a net-zero. Heat energy comes in as solar radiation (and lets face it, ultimately all renewable energy, except tidal is at it source solar.) Either that solar radiation gets absorbed when it first hits, and get immediately turned into either heat/evaporation/plant growth/wind, and all of these eventually wind up as heat down the line, or that solar radiation gets turned into electricity, and then gets turned into the same amount of heat when it runs an ASIC. Conservation of energy.. physics is a bitch.
Now, having thought about this, I can think of one argument that would negate some of the above: If you are arguing specifically that renewables reduce the albido of the earth, causing less radiation (and thus heat) to be reflected back into space I'll give you that side of the argument as a possibility.. I'll need to do some research to see if this is actually the case.
February 12, 2021, 09:14:45 AM
I simply resist the talk about the environment hurting aspects of Bitcoin mining often put forward by naysayers (no coiners I presume).
It's the same as saying that the production and distribution of the next hype plastic toy (example below) costs $xx environmental damage for each toy delivered to a toddler (only to be tossed aside within a month or - optimistically - a year).
We could argue whether it is moral to spend electricity or, more general, energy on the production and transportation of this type of product. Something that is paid for by the consumer who wants such a toy in the end. Why don't we apply this exercise on all products and services in the whole economy. Frankly, every economic activity for that matter?
Why is only Bitcoin scorching the planet and causing little kittens to die whereas the creation of consumer clothing, trash tv shows, gaming rigs, Whatsapp/Twitter chatter about nothing, 3g/4g/5g connections, mobile phones, air travel vacations, etc etc, are also energy consuming activities caused by a demand for it?
It's the selective pointing of the finger that triggers me, especially if it's all about virtue signalling about climate change.
It's the same as saying that the production and distribution of the next hype plastic toy (example below) costs $xx environmental damage for each toy delivered to a toddler (only to be tossed aside within a month or - optimistically - a year).
We could argue whether it is moral to spend electricity or, more general, energy on the production and transportation of this type of product. Something that is paid for by the consumer who wants such a toy in the end. Why don't we apply this exercise on all products and services in the whole economy. Frankly, every economic activity for that matter?
Why is only Bitcoin scorching the planet and causing little kittens to die whereas the creation of consumer clothing, trash tv shows, gaming rigs, Whatsapp/Twitter chatter about nothing, 3g/4g/5g connections, mobile phones, air travel vacations, etc etc, are also energy consuming activities caused by a demand for it?
It's the selective pointing of the finger that triggers me, especially if it's all about virtue signalling about climate change.
February 12, 2021, 09:14:09 AM
The researchers estimate that in 2018, every $1 of Bitcoin value created was responsible for $.49 in health and climate damages in the United States.
And we are talking about the innocent 2018...it would be shocking to try to do the equation for the current months of 2021.
And we are talking about the innocent 2018...it would be shocking to try to do the equation for the current months of 2021.
holy fuck, that must be the worst piece of FUD i have seen in a looooong time. and it´s not that we live in a period of low FUD intensity.
sir, could you please fuck off?
February 12, 2021, 09:10:20 AM
Can we keep climate change FUD (directed to Bitcoin - FUD) out of this thread, please?
This is part of another social media FUD campaign. I see the same lines copy pasted all over facebook, twitter, reddit, and now here. Obviously some wannabe shorter manipulators got a rusty pipe in the asshole, when Tesla bough bitcoins. Now their rage against Elon Musk is completely understandable. "Tesla signed a green energy thing, and now Bitcoin mining, ue, ue, ue" 
The other day the same twitter account started fake tether and mtgox fud, before that feds ban, india ban, etc. Just lol. So much money paid for these accounts with millions of followers for nothing. Let them shorters burn in the eternal hell of Bitcoin ATH's . (For us this is the heaven of course.) 
February 12, 2021, 08:59:25 AM
Can we keep climate change FUD (directed to Bitcoin - FUD) out of this thread, please?
It's actually good to try to educate people on this and how it works as far as bitcoin is concerned.
What do miners do? They mine.
What do miners "pay"? They pay the cost of electricity to mine.
So what is it they want to do? They want to lower their cost of electricity so they pay less to mine. They want to keep more profit. Some want to HODL the difference.
A lot of miners tend to migrate (physically) their machines to locations where electricity is cheap, or where there is no other user of that energy. They tend to look for renewable sources of energy, or other natural kind of stuff, like hydro, tidal, solar, wind ... maybe even nuclear. Energy that would just be wasted or not used because they are so far from the rest of humanity or civilization.
See, the actual mining machines do not need to be located where people live. They can be in remote places. Some places are naturally colder, like both ends of the earth, the north and south poles, Iceland, Greenland, Russia, Canada, Santa's Village, whatever.
It's not as big an issue as the naysayers think. Besides, miners who mine where they live, they pay for that electricity anyway, so what's the big deal? Humans are willing to pay $1 per kilowatt to live where they live. Mining machines tend to look for whereever the cost of electricity is below 1 cent per kilowatt hour. 2 is okay. 1 is good. Zero is better.
All this energy not being used for any other purpose then goes on to securing the bitcoin network.
Now, we can all sleep at night knowing our money, or safe haven asset, one that has been performing better than anything else in the market, is secure, and will likely be secure for the next one hundred years.
February 12, 2021, 08:50:32 AM
Wow. People congregating without masks or distancing having a good time. What a foreign concept!
February 12, 2021, 08:41:30 AM
You should build a structure visible from space like the Almeria greenhouses only in the shape of the Bitcoin symbol. Oh wait... opsec 
In that line of thinking, I would probably try to get some land with lots of trees, maybe a mountain nearby, and build whatever so it blends in such that the structure is NOT visible from space, or from the air.
Perhaps one of those underground silo / bunker types.
For ETFs, I think the new Canadian one has a ticker symbol ABTC. In addition to the already popular QBTC one. Both traded on the TSX.
February 12, 2021, 08:31:15 AM
Can we keep climate change FUD (directed to Bitcoin - FUD) out of this thread, please?
February 12, 2021, 08:26:13 AM
but there's a study showing that Bitcoin uses nearly 78% renewable energy. If you really think the heat will heat up the planet, we should destroy all heaters in cold countries and move all to warmer countries, right? That's not how it works.
Besides that, you should at least try to understand, that the whole network would still work with much fewer miners as we have them now.
I hope you have studied at some school and you have done some elementary Physics...if not sorry Besides that, you should at least try to understand, that the whole network would still work with much fewer miners as we have them now.
Renewable or not means nothing when it comes to Environmental pollution regarding to the heat factor... i didn't mentioned the power consumption in my post... i am talking about heat dissipation ...
Right now mining releases heat in the equivelant of a country with population more than 200M and is constantly rising....probably now is 300M...in a year could be 1Bn
This heat finds a way and gets released to the atmosphere...so it gives a good helping hand in overheating the planet just a little more than it should...planet overheating is quite a big trouble and we don't need "more help than it can get".
To get a more detailed view check this old article : https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-11/uonm-tec111219.php
The intesting part of the study : The researchers estimate that in 2018, every $1 of Bitcoin value created was responsible for $.49 in health and climate damages in the United States.
And we are talking about the innocent 2018...it would be shocking to try to do the equation for the current months of 2021.
As for ETH and shitcoins...as long BTC is strong..they are strong..if not everything crumbles as the equivelant of a paper tower in the blow of the wind.
February 12, 2021, 07:50:31 AM
There are at least 3 german tech sites where people in the comments hate Bitcoin. Computerbase, Golem and Heise. Look for example in the comments of the news about the blackout in Iran. I really don't get how people on technology news sites can have so much hate against a technology, that they don't even understand.
Normally i just watch the talk but this is a case where the term "understanding" is way way misused.Lets take it from the start:
I am not into a crypto so no benefit from the rally (on the contrary) but for those that are benefited ...just good luck.
As for the "understand"
Lets assume that everything goes as predicted/speculated
Apple/Amazon/Google are just around the corner to transfer assets to BTC and other crypto ...bussiness is bussiness and everyone looks what's best for his/her pocket
But concerning technology
What do you think it will happen...just make a speculate on this
I will put my speculation so you can argue.
Right now a specific part of Technology is suffering...this the GPU industry (The graphics cards)
Millions of cards instead on landing on consumers hands are finding their way on big mining farms....
The price has trippled in some cases and seems there isn't a stop.
A mid price PC has a price spike from around $600-700 to around $1000-$1200
Considering that the rally will continue in a month the price could go $2000, $3000,$4000....
This will apply considerable pressure to an average household budget...a LOT of people right now are not buying and waiting to check what will happen
For the time being a significant part of households do own a PC but this as time passes by it will become smaller and smaller....they do break.
This will effectively have the tech status instead of moving forward to change direction and move backwards
The lack of the "average" home computer will have in mid/long term lack of people dealing with tech (less tech savvy,less programmers , less of everything)
In the mean time because everything is a "chain" the problem will hit all areas of computing..companies will close (if there isn't market for AAA gaming titles due to lack of GPUs who will buy them)..people will get unemployed..a considerable amount of info (knowledge) will be lost
Another aspect... powerful GPUs are used for AI ,so no GPUs no AI,the next application that probably would save your life it just won't happen...no GPUs/no programmers/no development.
This is just a small portion why people that are not getting benefit from the rally are so against.
Do you want more
A quick one :
Pollution ...i am reading some jokes about Mining and renewable energy.....where the heat goes?
Pollution (2) ..... climate changes....the weather changes....no more good crop....famine
Pollution + famine ...riots..wars
Money in hands that shouldn't be.... The classical "millionaire" (income from other source but Crypto).....the new "millionaire" from Crypto....now he/she surpasses the "classical"...so more power and power can extend in many forms from taking the top post in the golf club to starting a war to the near country because they can. (please consider that the term millionaire might or might not refer to the person entity)
So some will get a better "understanding" on the why.
You don't understand it too. I talked about Bitcoin, not any other shitcoin. Nearly nobody mines Bitcoin with GPUs now. Also not everybody needs a high-end GPU in a computer. I've just bought my sister a laptop for 400€ and it works fine. I don't say much to your other points, because that's just wild speculation, but there's a study showing that Bitcoin uses nearly 78% renewable energy. If you really think the heat will heat up the planet, we should destroy all heaters in cold countries and move all to warmer countries, right? That's not how it works.
Besides that, you should at least try to understand, that the whole network would still work with much fewer miners as we have them now.
February 12, 2021, 07:32:04 AM
BOOM time fellas.
February 12, 2021, 07:29:27 AM
February 12, 2021, 07:03:55 AM
a little OT: Do you think the crypto ban in india will effect the price or is it already in the price (so no effect at all)?
I don't think it means anything (just a minor correction) but their claim really tickled my stomach lolIndia has been banning crypto for over 10 years now.
+1 wo smerit February 12, 2021, 06:42:57 AM
I am pretty sure that we will witness crypto mining on everything [...]
That does not make sense to me. Why would mining be done on each and any type of machine while they are not suited for such task? It seems more likely that mining remains in the hands of those who commit capital and operate specialised mining hardware, gaining the most from it.
Take a look here :
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/mine-cryptocurrency-raspberry-pi
and try to imagine what if the monero in question had a value e.g. $1000
February 12, 2021, 06:41:00 AM
....
Normally i just watch the talk but this is a case where the term "understanding" is way way misused.
...
Normally i just watch the talk but this is a case where the term "understanding" is way way misused.
...
Dont worry. In 1 or 2 years at most, ETH mining will be done.. so millions of GPUs will be turned down. All your "problems" will be gone. You'll have the perfect world you had last years. (kids playing AAA titles, people upgrading PCs, soft studios making money, hardware developers making money,.. and the heat will be gone.. what a wonderfull world!)
I wouldn't bet on that. This narrative was from the beginning of ETH. Besides, miners and circles related to nvidia&amd can pump any coin to be profitable, so I really don't think GPU mining will end soon... or ever. Besides, it is a very efficient means of heating in the cold months. I have the same kw/h consumption for either gpus farms or AC's for my whole appartment. So I would prefer mining even with a 90% loss. And I did it in the last 2 winters. Now that "loss" turned to be a 20x profit, which currently is equal to 10x of my monthly wage. I buy any available 5700 card, but it is so hard to find these beasts now.
February 12, 2021, 06:38:17 AM
I am pretty sure that we will witness crypto mining on everything [...]
That does not make sense to me. Why would mining be done on each and any type of machine while they are not suited for such task? It seems more likely that mining remains in the hands of those who commit capital and operate specialised mining hardware, gaining the most from it.
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