Was Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump? - page 13.

Amph

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Quote from: GreenStox on April 07, 2015, 02:41:28 PM

Quote from: Amph on April 07, 2015, 02:32:54 PM

Quote from: OpenOcean on April 07, 2015, 07:29:33 AM

It might have been a pump and dump, but it did create utility to the point where almost all majour banks have blockchain technology R&D going on.

blockchain technology are nothing without decentralization, the whole point of blockchain isn't just a digital ledger, i would say to the banks, thanks but no thanks, you can take your centralized blockchain and turn back to fiat

bitcoin is still preferably, no point in making a bad copy of it

I dont think they would centralize it, but they would definitely make some complicated derivative out of it, which would be so complicately coded, that normal peer-review would not detect it, and so they could hide a ponzi scheme in it.

Besides they would instamine it and keep 99% of it between themselves, or just make it with no fixed supply, and a voting system when to issue more of it.

So they would do the same thing as now, but with a decentralized system, which is a bit shadily implemented and contructed, to have a bitcoin appeal to it, when in fact it would be a scam.

so in the end we will just have a standard altcoin like the one in the altcoin section, but made instead from banks, which are worse than a malicious dev

i could see all the shit in the altsection re-made from banks authority(pos, ico, iipo ecc...)

GreenStox

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Quote from: Amph on April 07, 2015, 02:32:54 PM

Quote from: OpenOcean on April 07, 2015, 07:29:33 AM

It might have been a pump and dump, but it did create utility to the point where almost all majour banks have blockchain technology R&D going on.

blockchain technology are nothing without decentralization, the whole point of blockchain isn't just a digital ledger, i would say to the banks, thanks but no thanks, you can take your centralized blockchain and turn back to fiat

bitcoin is still preferably, no point in making a bad copy of it

I dont think they would centralize it, but they would definitely make some complicated derivative out of it, which would be so complicately coded, that normal peer-review would not detect it, and so they could hide a ponzi scheme in it.

Besides they would instamine it and keep 99% of it between themselves, or just make it with no fixed supply, and a voting system when to issue more of it.

So they would do the same thing as now, but with a decentralized system, which is a bit shadily implemented and contructed, to have a bitcoin appeal to it, when in fact it would be a scam.

Amph

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Quote from: OpenOcean on April 07, 2015, 07:29:33 AM

It might have been a pump and dump, but it did create utility to the point where almost all majour banks have blockchain technology R&D going on.

blockchain technology are nothing without decentralization, the whole point of blockchain isn't just a digital ledger, i would say to the banks, thanks but no thanks, you can take your centralized blockchain and turn back to fiat

bitcoin is still preferably, no point in making a bad copy of it

GreenStox

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Quote from: OpenOcean on April 07, 2015, 07:29:33 AM

It might have been a pump and dump, but it did create utility to the point where almost all majour banks have blockchain technology R&D going on.

Well i`d rather look forward to bitcoin to suceed, than to let the banksters create another global ponzi scheme they can control and rip us off...

OpenOcean

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It might have been a pump and dump, but it did create utility to the point where almost all majour banks have blockchain technology R&D going on.

GreenStox

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Quote from: xmasdobo on April 06, 2015, 11:51:25 AM

Quote from: MR1 on April 06, 2015, 11:30:47 AM

Quote from: Enfield on October 29, 2014, 10:58:56 AM

No. If this was the case Satoshi would have dumped his coins and bought his own island by now. That's not to say he wont dump them in the future but there's always the risk.

How do you know Satoshi still holds his coins??? Grin

Apparently someone traced the coins thought blockchain.info... even tho its impossible to know because exchange addresses are randomly generated so i dont get it.

Can you PM me his Bitcoin addresses, i would be really curious to monitor those coins in case they start moving I want to be prepared Cheesy

mrhelpful

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Quote from: deisik on April 06, 2015, 05:17:15 AM

Quote from: Amph on April 06, 2015, 04:54:35 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 06, 2015, 04:23:15 AM

Quote from: Fabrizio89 on April 06, 2015, 02:29:02 AM

The bubble did some serious fuckery that still is persecuting us. The real problem is that we still didn't reset the market and every pump and dump since the bubble just delayed the inevitable retest of lows. Are we at a point were we can finally shake out the problems this bubble created? Many indicators on longterm say no, but if it's actually this is the time when fresh money comes in, then we might be at a turning point.

Could you expand more on which problems the bubble had created, and what do you actually mean by resetting the market? I suspect that the bubble (I guess you mean that soaring to 1000$+ highs) was not good either, but I can't pinpoint what's wrong with it exactly (that is still pursuing us)...

that bubble 1200 peak created problem related to many people that lost money(many "average joe" aka newbies), because they rode the wave, and now those same people lost faith in bitcoin and they will never invest against unless the price fall to sub 100

those same people told their story to their family and friends, which is result in a big spreading of talking against how not good is bitcoin as investment ecc...

this is the problem which that bubble caused, i big one indeed

As I can tell, these people bought bitcoin to speculate it, right? Evidently, they got hurt in the end (this had to be expected), but is it what bitcoin is all about, i.e. speculation (or investment in your speak)?

Not everyone, some people buy it because like people in greece who rather see their money into some other form of currency to save their own money.

Translate that back into USD so they wont see their life savings go all at once due to their government going under.

If I was there, Id be doing the same thing, similar to russians as well.

randy8777

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Quote from: xmasdobo on April 06, 2015, 11:51:25 AM

Quote from: MR1 on April 06, 2015, 11:30:47 AM

Quote from: Enfield on October 29, 2014, 10:58:56 AM

No. If this was the case Satoshi would have dumped his coins and bought his own island by now. That's not to say he wont dump them in the future but there's always the risk.

How do you know Satoshi still holds his coins??? Grin

Apparently someone traced the coins thought blockchain.info... even tho its impossible to know because exchange addresses are randomly generated so i dont get it.

people can only guess. but if he really hold the coins from the early days then they will cause major panic if these coins start moving.

xmasdobo

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Quote from: MR1 on April 06, 2015, 11:30:47 AM

Quote from: Enfield on October 29, 2014, 10:58:56 AM

No. If this was the case Satoshi would have dumped his coins and bought his own island by now. That's not to say he wont dump them in the future but there's always the risk.

How do you know Satoshi still holds his coins??? Grin

Apparently someone traced the coins thought blockchain.info... even tho its impossible to know because exchange addresses are randomly generated so i dont get it.

MR1

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Quote from: Enfield on October 29, 2014, 10:58:56 AM

No. If this was the case Satoshi would have dumped his coins and bought his own island by now. That's not to say he wont dump them in the future but there's always the risk.

How do you know Satoshi still holds his coins??? Grin

deisik

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Quote from: Amph on April 06, 2015, 04:54:35 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 06, 2015, 04:23:15 AM

Quote from: Fabrizio89 on April 06, 2015, 02:29:02 AM

The bubble did some serious fuckery that still is persecuting us. The real problem is that we still didn't reset the market and every pump and dump since the bubble just delayed the inevitable retest of lows. Are we at a point were we can finally shake out the problems this bubble created? Many indicators on longterm say no, but if it's actually this is the time when fresh money comes in, then we might be at a turning point.

Could you expand more on which problems the bubble had created, and what do you actually mean by resetting the market? I suspect that the bubble (I guess you mean that soaring to 1000$+ highs) was not good either, but I can't pinpoint what's wrong with it exactly (that is still pursuing us)...

that bubble 1200 peak created problem related to many people that lost money(many "average joe" aka newbies), because they rode the wave, and now those same people lost faith in bitcoin and they will never invest against unless the price fall to sub 100

those same people told their story to their family and friends, which is result in a big spreading of talking against how not good is bitcoin as investment ecc...

this is the problem which that bubble caused, i big one indeed

As I can tell, these people bought bitcoin to speculate it, right? Evidently, they got hurt in the end (this had to be expected), but is it what bitcoin is all about, i.e. speculation (or investment in your speak)?

Amph

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Quote from: deisik on April 06, 2015, 04:23:15 AM

Quote from: Fabrizio89 on April 06, 2015, 02:29:02 AM

The bubble did some serious fuckery that still is persecuting us. The real problem is that we still didn't reset the market and every pump and dump since the bubble just delayed the inevitable retest of lows. Are we at a point were we can finally shake out the problems this bubble created? Many indicators on longterm say no, but if it's actually this is the time when fresh money comes in, then we might be at a turning point.

Could you expand more on which problems the bubble had created, and what do you actually mean by resetting the market? I suspect that the bubble (I guess you mean that soaring to 1000$+ highs) was not good either, but I can't pinpoint what's wrong with it exactly (that is still pursuing us)...

that bubble 1200 peak created problem related to many people that lost money(many "average joe" aka newbies), because they rode the wave, and now those same people lost faith in bitcoin and they will never invest against unless the price fall to sub 100

those same people told their story to their family and friends, which is result in a big spreading of talking against how not good is bitcoin as investment ecc...

this is the problem which that bubble caused, a big one indeed

deisik

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Quote from: Fabrizio89 on April 06, 2015, 02:29:02 AM

The bubble did some serious fuckery that still is persecuting us. The real problem is that we still didn't reset the market and every pump and dump since the bubble just delayed the inevitable retest of lows. Are we at a point were we can finally shake out the problems this bubble created? Many indicators on longterm say no, but if it's actually this is the time when fresh money comes in, then we might be at a turning point.

Could you expand more on which problems the bubble had created, and what do you actually mean by resetting the market? I suspect that the bubble (I guess you mean that soaring to 1000$+ highs) was not good either, but I can't pinpoint what's wrong with it exactly (that is still pursuing us)...

Fabrizio89

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The bubble did some serious fuckery that still is persecuting us. The real problem is that we still didn't reset the market and every pump and dump since the bubble just delayed the inevitable retest of lows. Are we at a point were we can finally shake out the problems this bubble created? Many indicators on longterm say no, but if it's actually this is the time when fresh money comes in, then we might be at a turning point.

GreenStox

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Quote from: randy8777 on March 20, 2015, 05:50:21 AM

we love bitcoin for its amazing technology, but there is nothing wrong with the volatility now as we're still in the very beginning.
it's a win win. supporting bitcoin and getting nice profits from the volatility.

Volatility can be very bad for consumers and merchants.

I agree that for speculators is good but speculators have only 1 role to stabilize the price, so that later the merchants can join and built businesses on it.

So its perfectly balanced in a free market.

deisik

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Quote from: johnyj on March 28, 2015, 01:23:53 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 21, 2015, 04:10:01 AM

Quote from: johnyj on March 20, 2015, 07:25:40 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 20, 2015, 02:29:50 AM

Fiat money is an instrument of governmental control (and in the case of the US dollar it is also an instrument of world domination). Why would any government consciously and intentionally want to substitute the currency they control with something they cannot ultimately control?

In China maybe, but as I understand, western governments are very poor, they all have heavy debt and fiat money is the tool that banks control them

But who controls banks? Right, a central bank. But the central bank is most certainly controlled by the government. For example, the seven members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors are appointed by the president of the US and then confirmed by Senate...

I guess bankers controls governments, otherwise government could just ask banks to create some money for them to spend, never need to borrow money from banks. Notice that government do not own FED, FED stockholders are regional reserve banks

FOMC members consists most of president of federal reserve bankers, with 2-3 scholars

I don't quite think so. In the question of who controls whom, you should consider who has more power. For example, if government can promote their people to take leading posts in an agency, it can be said with surety that the former controls the latter. The degree of control may differ indeed, but it is still unmistakably present there...

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Quote from: deisik on March 21, 2015, 04:10:01 AM

Quote from: johnyj on March 20, 2015, 07:25:40 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 20, 2015, 02:29:50 AM

Quote from: johnyj on March 19, 2015, 11:14:02 PM

It is the biggest pump and dump in human history, could last for hundreds of years, and when it is pumped up enough high, fiat money will get dumped, that is a fundamental difference

Fiat money is an instrument of governmental control (and in the case of the US dollar it is also an instrument of world domination). Why would any government consciously and intentionally want to substitute the currency they control with something they cannot ultimately control?

In China maybe, but as I understand, western governments are very poor, they all have heavy debt and fiat money is the tool that banks control them

But who controls banks? Right, a central bank. But the central bank is most certainly controlled by the government. For example, the seven members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors are appointed by the president of the US and then confirmed by Senate...

I guess bankers controls governments, otherwise government could just ask banks to create some money for them to spend, never need to borrow money from banks. Notice that government do not own FED, FED stockholders are regional reserve banks

FOMC members consists most of president of federal reserve bankers, with 2-3 scholars

aso118

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