Topic: Wasabi Wallet - Open Source, Noncustodial Coinjoin Software - page 17. (Read 8597 times)

Thanks, I believe I need to get more into the nitty gritty. But the point remains. No one can merely start a coordinator and expect it to automatically have the reputation needed for users to start sending their outputs to it.

You don't need any reputation because coordinators are not trusted.

BitcoinTalk users could start one as a community, but the ban on mixers makes the idea impossible to promote in the forum.

"Mixers" are scams that steal from you and track all of your transaction history. This is the opposite of a coinjoin, which is trustless.

I'm also asking about the outputs in the pool. If most of it is from the owner of the coordinator then he/she could trace those outputs upon exit from the pool, just like a honeypot. Or am I wrong?

Any entity with enough capital can perform a Sybil attack, this isn't a privilege of the coordinator.

The same argument. If a coordinator doesn't have the reputation to attract enough users to put enough volume/liquidity into the coordinator then it can be sybil attacked by bad actors, and essentially make it function like their own honeypot. It's not a flaw in the coordinator, I'm merely saying that low liquidity = less effective CoinJoins.

Kruw

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Thanks, I believe I need to get more into the nitty gritty. But the point remains. No one can merely start a coordinator and expect it to automatically have the reputation needed for users to start sending their outputs to it.

You don't need any reputation because coordinators are not trusted.

BitcoinTalk users could start one as a community, but the ban on mixers makes the idea impossible to promote in the forum.

"Mixers" are scams that steal from you and track all of your transaction history. This is the opposite of a coinjoin, which is trustless.

Quote from: Kruw on May 17, 2024, 09:59:43 AM

I'm also asking about the outputs in the pool. If most of it is from the owner of the coordinator then he/she could trace those outputs upon exit from the pool, just like a honeypot. Or am I wrong?

Any entity with enough capital can perform a Sybil attack, this isn't a privilege of the coordinator.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Pmalek on May 17, 2024, 10:04:58 AM

OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

Read what I said again: You don't have to trust coordinators. There's no way to create a "honeypot".

Thanks, I believe I need to get more into the nitty gritty. But the point remains. No one can merely start a coordinator and expect it to automatically have the reputation needed for users to start sending their outputs to it. BitcoinTalk users could start one as a community, but the ban on mixers makes the idea impossible to promote in the forum.

Quote from: Pmalek on May 17, 2024, 10:04:58 AM

OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

Kruw will now tell you that the reputation of an individual doesn't matter because everything is open-source. He might also mention that it can't be a honeypot because the wallet doesn't collect any information. Did I mention it is open-source? Finally, if you are not running your own coordinator then you are a pussy.

I'm also asking about the outputs in the pool. If most of it is from the owner of the coordinator then he/she could trace those outputs upon exit from the pool, just like a honeypot. Or am I wrong?

Kruw

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Kruw will now tell you that the reputation of an individual doesn't matter because everything is open-source.

Correct. The code speaks for itself.

Quote from: Pmalek on May 17, 2024, 10:04:58 AM

He might also mention that it can't be a honeypot because the wallet doesn't collect any information.

Correct. Your data is yours alone, you never share it with anyone at all.

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OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

Kruw will now tell you that the reputation of an individual doesn't matter because everything is open-source. He might also mention that it can't be a honeypot because the wallet doesn't collect any information. Did I mention it is open-source? Finally, if you are not running your own coordinator then you are a pussy.

Kruw

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Quote from: Kruw on May 16, 2024, 12:03:28 PM

OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

Read what I said again: You don't have to trust coordinators. There's no way to create a "honeypot".

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 16, 2024, 11:49:26 AM

I believe that it will take some time, a LONG time, before an anonymous community-bootstrapped coordinator could gain the reputation and the trust of the users.

You don't have to trust coordinators. There's no reputation required.

OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

Kruw

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 16, 2024, 11:49:26 AM

I believe that it will take some time, a LONG time, before an anonymous community-bootstrapped coordinator could gain the reputation and the trust of the users.

You don't have to trust coordinators. There's no reputation required.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Kruw on May 14, 2024, 11:31:06 AM

Quote from: Kruw on May 10, 2024, 05:38:49 AM

11,000 private Bitcoins are now on the blockchain. Let's fucking go

12,000+ private Bitcoins are now on the blockchain Cool

Perhaps those are Wasabi users CoinJoining before June 1? The fees are cheap too.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But it's sad to see one of the most liquid CoinJoining service close its doors. I believe that it will take some time, a LONG time, before an anonymous community-bootstrapped coordinator could gain the reputation and the trust of the users. Plus to have enough liquidity to CoinJoin effectively.

Kruw

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Quote from: Kruw on May 10, 2024, 05:38:49 AM

11,000 private Bitcoins are now on the blockchain. Let's fucking go

12,000+ private Bitcoins are now on the blockchain Cool

Kruw

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Quote from: Pmalek on May 13, 2024, 11:17:58 AM

And no Kruw, I am not running my own coordinator. I wouldn't touch anything that is connected to you or Wasabi even with a stick.

Why not? Do you just not care about privacy?

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 13, 2024, 04:59:51 AM

Kruw 2023: SBF shouldn't be allowed to coinjoin his coins. Why would anyone allow him do that?
Kruw 2024: I do not censor anyone.

Yet, PrivacyG is the liar here. Cheesy

That's kruw for you. As trustworthy as Harvey Weinstein around Hollywood actresses. He embodies Wasabi's spirit perfectly. We will bend over any way they ask us to. If his handlers decided coinjoins were illegal and considered money laundering, he would start saying that and call everyone out for using them.

And no Kruw, I am not running my own coordinator. I wouldn't touch anything that is connected to you or Wasabi even with a stick.

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 13, 2024, 04:59:51 AM

Kruw 2023: SBF shouldn't be allowed to coinjoin his coins. Why would anyone allow him do that?
Kruw 2024: I do not censor anyone.

Yet, PrivacyG is the liar here. Cheesy

Why didn't you provide a quote of me saying the thing you claimed I said? This is a forum, if I actually said that, then you would be able to prove it.

________________________________

New release! Wasabi 2.0.7.2 is now available, download from https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/releases/tag/v2.0.7.2

This version includes a new feature: Coinjoin to another wallet. This allows you to use transfer your funds from your hot wallet into your hardware wallet directly inside a coinjoin transaction. This perk saves block space and improves privacy compared to transferring to cold storage by hand.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Kruw 2023: SBF shouldn't be allowed to coinjoin his coins. Why would anyone allow him do that?
Kruw 2024: I do not censor anyone.

Yet, PrivacyG is the liar here. Cheesy

Quote from: Kruw on May 12, 2024, 11:41:55 AM

Libertarian philosophy is what got me into Bitcoin in the first place, I am interested in the answers people have for these scenarios with SBF or Stalin. My answer is to throw SBF in a dungeon.

Right. And which school of libertarian thought stands for aggression and censorship? I've probably missed that one.

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Quote from: PrivacyG on May 12, 2024, 11:04:21 AM

Stop derailing the subject. You were pointing fingers at us for NOT supporting Censorship of the Coordinator.

I wasn't pointing fingers, I was asking questions. Libertarian philosophy is what got me into Bitcoin in the first place, I am interested in the answers people have for these scenarios with SBF or Stalin. My answer is to throw SBF in a dungeon.

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Quote from: Kruw on May 12, 2024, 10:57:25 AM

And I could not have been more clear that I believe the solution to SBF stealing a ton of money is to chain him to a boulder and leave him in a dungeon. In case you haven't heard, SBF is in prison now.

Stop derailing the subject. You were pointing fingers at us for NOT supporting Censorship of the Coordinator.

Quote from: Kruw

As the coinjoin coordinator, you are not the arbiter of whether or not SBF is allowed to use Bitcoin, you are the arbiter of whether or not you turn his stolen coins private. I'm asking you why you would choose to help Sam hide the stolen money from his victims.

Quote from: PrivacyG on May 12, 2024, 10:53:37 AM

Kruw

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You also could not have been more insistent to point out that I am helping out SBF by not supporting Censorship.

And I could not have been more clear that I believe the solution to SBF stealing a ton of money is to chain him to a boulder and leave him in a dungeon. In case you haven't heard, SBF is in prison now.

Quote from: Kruw

You're right: I don't think SBF should be allowed to do anything. He should be chained to a boulder and left in a dungeon until his debts are paid off.

Quote from: Kruw on May 12, 2024, 10:48:53 AM

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Quote from: PrivacyG on May 12, 2024, 10:36:21 AM

Kruw from a few months ago would of called me a big time Scammer had I ran my own Uncensored Coordinator.

You're a liar. I couldn't have been more insistent that people run their own coordinators:

You also could not have been more insistent to point out that I am helping out SBF by not supporting Censorship.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Why would you help Sam hide the stolen money from his victims?

Quote from: Kruw

Sure, I'll approach it from the base layer: As a miner, would you deny service to Sam Bankman Fried if he wanted to coinjoin stolen FTX funds? Or would you make his stolen coins private instead?