Topic: WAVES - Complete Blockchain ecosystem for a token economy - page 28. (Read 130993 times)

Do you still have funds in VIRES right now?  And if so, which coin are you lending there?  Is it usdc?  Again 25% seems just ridiculously high.  Because I always heard once you go higher than say 12% interest, that is where you draw the line.


So if for example I want to do that with VIRES right now.  Let say to make it simple try it with 1,000 dollars worth of usd or waves or btc.  I would first convert it to usdc right?  Then I would go to Vires and lend the entire 1,000 usdc?  I always hard usdc is safer than usdt though I don't know why there is concern on usdt since it has been around for so long.  So when you view your balance daily, will that 1,000 usdb go up?  Or you earn usdc every week or how often is that amount deposited?



So basically if you put 1,000 usdc in VIRES now, you probably would expect to earn 250 usdc in a year if you just keep it there?  Again this sounds ridiculous because even blockfi/nexo gives at most 12% interest.  So you would be staking or is it lending usdc in VIRES?  The thing that is confusing is how much interest are borrowers even paying for you to get 25% interest?  They are paying much more than that which seem a bit ridiculous? 
So you mean if just one person puts like $10M into VIRES, everyone's APY will drop?  So have you noticed any big drop since you started?



Well I want to know the safest investment.  Like if you stake usdc/usdt or gusd on blockfi or nexo or gemini, you going to get that flat stablecoin rate percentage no matter what.  Of course it can drop and you get less percentage but you know what the number will be when it drops to a certain number.  So with the waves exchange, which would that be?  USDN seem to fluctuate always?  Well blockfi pays that interest because borrowers pay more interest.  The thing is I don't know how waves VIRES can give you this much interest.  I mean let say someone had a million dollars.  He converts it to usdc and puts it all into VIRES.  Assuming that interest drops from 25% to 22%... I'm using an example as you said the APY might decrease from someone supplying a lot of money into it... then that person will earn around 220,000 usdc or so in a year unless there is a ton of more money buying supplied?  Again, this number seems ridiculously high.  Because from what I read, if someone had a million dollars and put it into blockfi or nexo or and stake a stablecoin like usdc that give them 10%... well they going to earn 100,000 usdc a year which they could then convert to usd and then cash out to their bank account.  I am confused how this number is so high for waves for VIRES with usdc. 

Yes exactly. I participated in Vires from early on and I think my APY is much higher than 25% considering also the early bird & supply rewards (which are paid in Vires tokens).
Well there is a theoretical limit in that, if you put in significant amounts (in relation to the current supply which now sits at 280M for USDC) you drive down the APY, as the APY is a function of how much is supplied and borrowed. So if you supply $10M (and nothing new is borrowed) then the APY might decrease from 17% to 14% or so (just an example).
In the end the borrowers pay your "interest", if there are none you'll also get no interest. I can't tell you who they are, but they must exist, otherwise Vires wouldn't earn any money (which apparantly currently they do, $43k a day for the whole platform if you look at the governance)

As I wrote the USDN Staking rates depend on the Neutrino SC. If the rate is too low for you then just put your money somewhere else

I think you basically got it right. What you describe here is a standard problem for any coin/token that promises high staking reward. Most of the time the staking reward comes from the inflation of the token supply and (unless the demand for the token increases) this will drive down the price of the token. 100% Staking reward only gives you a profit if your token doesn't drop more than 50% in price.
The WX IDO was last November for 1 WX = 1 USDN and the IDO tokens are relased until November this year. The WX price will not go much higher or lower than 1 USDN until then in my opinion. However, WX still has a high inflation (you can check the token release schedule in the waves.exchange). Don't expect the price to bottom out in the coming months either.

I guess this depends on your goals. Do you want the highest possible profit? Or the safest investment? Do you want to increase $? or Waves or BTC?
For most people it is advisable to have a mix of different products in case sth goes wrong with one of your investments. I wouldn't even invest all of my money on Waves only.
There are news almost weekly that somewhere some platform got hacked or the owners run off with the funds. Fortunately this hasn't happened with Waves, but one can't be careful enough in the crypto space

It is a complex problem and I can't give you a 100% good answer either. My question here would be: How can nexo/blockfi pay their interest? Where does the money come from to pay the interests on those platforms? I actually have no idea and would like to know.
Maybe they call it simply "Staking" but do some high risk trades in the background you don't know anything about?

As I wrote in my last post, the interests for the Waves products are generated in different ways: Fees from borrowers (Vires), liquidity provider/trading fees and WX token rewards (WX Pools), liquidity provider fees on Ethereum (LP tokens), Neutrino SC mechanism (USDN Staking), ...
Some Waves products might have higher APY right now, but a whale with a significant deposit could easily drive down the APYs for most of the products. Maybe it's also a question of accessibility of the platform/blockchain and nexo/blockfi operate on ETH or BSC and haven't looked much into Waves? As I said, I think eventually the APYs for similar products will be similar across different platforms once they are inter-operateable.

Each of the different products is associated with different risks and transparency (in that you know whats actually in the "black box" and where your interests come from). In the end you have to decide for yourself how much money you want to put in certain platforms based on that.

Vires -  Last year USDC was pretty much consistently over 25%.


You are telling me if someone had 10,000 dollars and converted it to 10,000 usdc and did this, they would have gotten 2,500 usdc for the year?  So wouldn't that mean someone with a million dollars would earn a quarter million?  There is no limit to how much you can put?  But then you mention there is risk on this which has me confused.


Well USDN... wasn't the staking percentage over 10% a while back.  So now if it is under 6%, how would that make sense staking it if someone could stake a stablecoin like usdc/usdt or say gusd in nexo/blockfi for more than that?


When you say lock Wx tokens, you mean you have to buy them right?  Thus buy it to stake?  The issue here is if Wx drops a lot... then you would lose money right?  I saw they seem to advertise like 25% interest on Wx... is that correct?  So someone with 5000 Wx worth would earn 1,250 Wx a year?  But the risk here is if the price drops more than 25% after a year, you lose money?  Example you buy Wx for 1.25 and buy 5000 of it.  You invest it in that pool and keep it there a year.  So as long as the Wx price doesn't drop more than 25% from the price you bought a year ago,  you profit correct?  Assuming you plan to sell it after a year?  But if Wx stays the same, you literally earn 25% because you then just sell all the Wx?  If Wx goes higher, you earn 25% plus whatever the Wx prices go up to?


So in terms of all these investments, which is the safest?  Isn't it staking waves you have since you will get a consistent return on it which is more waves?  Of course this is same situation like when you buy waves and earn waves but if waves drops more than x percent that you buy it, then you lose?


What has me confused here is... does the waves exchange allow you to earn interest via stablecoins like with usdc/usdt/gusd like with nexo/blockfi/gemini where you get a flat rate and there is no concern of prices since its pegged to the dollar?  Obviously they can drop the rate a percent or two but that would stijll be earning passive income.  So does waves exchange offer this?  Example, you go and get 10,000 usd and convert it to usdc/usdt and just stake/lend it for passive income?  Because you seem to imply someone would have earned 25% last year if they did usdc... which seem really high etc.  If that is the case, why would anyone stake/lend usdc on nexo/blockfi then for around 10% when they could get more with waves exchange?

I am a bit confused by your post as you seem to mix the different investment products that are available

1) Vires
The Supply APY% that you see there is what you currently get. Keep in mind they can change with every block (=every minute), so nobody knows how the rates will be in 1 hour/day/month and nobody can tell you how much you will have earned at the end of the year. This entirely depends on the ratio between supplied and borrowed funds. You can check the "Stats" for each coin/token to see how the APYs developed in the past though.
Yes, the rates are still a bit higher than on other platforms, but they already came down quite a bit. Last year USDC was pretty much consistently over 25%. I expect that eventually rates will be very similar across different platforms when there is enough gateways between them and transaction fees are low enough so that they can interact easily.

2) USDN Staking
Here the APY% changes every day according to the rules set by the Neutrino smart contract (the APY mainly depends on the Waves price and on how many Waves are in the smart contract). Similar to Vires, nobody can tell you how this will develop in the future. You can check the past development for instance here: https://dev.pywaves.org/neutrino/. This shows that in the last 60 days you got an (average) APY of 5.74% for USDN staking.

3) LAMBO investments
This is more like a portfolio managed by a funds manager, where the funds manager is an AI (apparently). To me it is not clear in what products this invests, it would be nice to know actually. Important to know is that you can lose money here. The risk is somewhat controlled so that the drawdown is capped at a maximum of 10%(*). Because of it's relative intransparency I do prefer Vires and Staking over this, but LAMBO token have made quite some good profit in the past.

4) What else is there?
- You can invest into the Pools on the Waves.Exchange. To get the maximum APYs you will have to lock WX tokens however. Here is where you see vAPY (which comes from pool trading) and tAPY (which are WX rewards you get for providing funds to a pool)
- there are also the "LP" (liquidity provider) tokens like USDLP and USDCLP which invest into pools on the Ethereum chain. Also a bit intransparent like the LAMBO tokens, but you can't lose money here(*) as the token proce only goes up. There is a 2 week waiting period however if you want to withdraw your money.

(*) Losing all your money is still possible for all products as there are risks by holding crypto/stablecoins or by trusting smart contracts which could be hacked.

This is not investment advice, just a general information about how the products work. If you find anything wrong in my explanation please let me know. and also do your own research

Can someone here explain ViresFinance on waves?  So when you stake waves, you get a small percentage of waves for staking.  However, if you stake USDT or USDC on ViresFinance, are you really getting that much interest that is advertise?


Example say you have 10,000 usd and convert it to btc or waves and want to stake to earn stablecoin.  If you stake/lend 10,000 usdt/usdc for an entire year... how much usdt/usdc will you get at the end of the year?  Because they seem to advertise higher rates than even nexo/celsius/blockfi?  I am confused with this because they use many different terms like Base vAPY and Reward tAPY.


Also usdn staking... that percentage seems to change literally almost every few days?  So if you want to stake stablecoin on waves network, you shouldn't do that?  There is also lambo investments and other things.  Anyone have experience with these? 

WX token is used to pay transaction fees similar to gas on Ethereum network. Turtle Museum is still here, spouting off his blasphemous rants. Why is that guy hanging out here? He might of accumulated enough WX tokens in his pool to be able to fund his turtle junkwork. He is the creator of that network. From this conclusion falls out the following suggestion, he is here to pursue his ad campaign. Where else can he spam garbage?

Bottom is in for TurtleNetwork here at 7500:1 waves which is x200 below baseline rate.

Buy everything below 0.0035.

https://swop.fi/info/3PCdNCULgjM9ZMLEt61M45qxV26ro6o48Jj

I was just checking now and on Binance Waves/USDT is (Bid/Ask) 25.77/25.78
and on Waves.Exchange Waves/USDN: 25.72/25.92

and USDT/USDN on W.Ex is 1.004/1.0052

The difference is not very big, but I think you are right with your theory. I mean, if it weren't the case then people could do profitable arbitrage trades until those 3 pairs are in balance again. Currently USDN is pretty "stable" and almost worth $1, but we also had situations were 1 USDN traded at 0.97 USDT or USDC and back then all coins (BTC/ETH/Waves) traded for more USDN compared to USDT on other exchanges.

I haven't experienced any lag in the trades. There were a few occasion where it was generally difficult to log in due to server overload (like when the WX IDO had just started), but in 99% of the cases it's working fine.

Is the reason there is a waves price difference between waves exchange and binance due to the usdt not being exactly one dollar?


Also, does the waves exchange lag when you are going to do trades? 

This is correct.  Before the implementation of the WX token this is what the fee structure was.  TBH, I'm not entirely sure why they switched tx fee's over if WX token is largely supposed to be a governance token for the platform and honestly would have preferred if they would have stuck with using Waves primarily as a form of Gas (similar to eth).

Now the cheapest way to trade tokens on waves.exchange is by spending WX token.

At least Waves has a trading volume of about 3 billion per day, I see Unus Sed Leo top 20 with just 6 million trading volume.

I think it's becoming revolutionary. Seeing how BSC grew when they have ERC20 tokens that represent on the BSC network. Well, this is also happening on WAVES where some of the ERC20 tokens also have ETH tokens migrated over to the WAVES network.

And this I think is good because there is BTC on WAVES network. NOT WBTC or rBTC, it's real BTC. Meaning its one of the hybrid DEX and wallet at the same time.

a coin and  chain nobody uses makes %400 in  a week ?? ffs.hate crypto.
well since the owner sasha ivanov owns %95 of all coins,means there are almost no sellers.
this can hit 50 in  few days for all i know.it is basically a honeypot.

Technical wave 5 blow off top.

1 was 4.81
2 2.06
3 42
4 7.56
5 anywhere from 84 usd to over 200 maybe 400 usd

Then abc bottom -95% supercycle 3 year bear where ever the top formed

Could expect some retracement from 30 level maybe down to 15 but now that is broke 24.8 I don't think sub 8 is back on the table. Probable mid march cycle 60 day low around 13-15 and then continuation over ath. But also possible straight to 84.

Waves is 100 times cheaper than Eth and fees are still ok. Eth is a bit over valued but the fundamental valuation metrics are not the same as Waves because of the value of the dapps such as Opensea and vintage NFTs which waves does not have and can never obtain. Combined with continued ecosystem protocol dilution fair value in peak bull mode is low triple digit but it will be short lasting and dive back into secular bear mode soon.

Would not advice new investors to speculate with big money here at 27.5 unless immediately swopping it for passive income. Swop is not risk free by the way.

The time to allocate big money in waves was at 60 cents and if you want something similar to waves at baseline valuation then put a few thousand into TurtleNetwork it is only 500k market cap and did not yet x20.

Excellent question, I don't really know why. What I can tell you: Together with the increase in prices, we see very high volumes, largely driven by the Upbit exchange trading Waves/KRW in South Korea.
Also we saw a number of large swaps into the Neutrino smart contract which locks and removes Waves from circulation increasing scarcity.
If anybody knows more, please give us some information  

Does anyone have any idea why the price of Waves is surging ? Is it related to a certain event or something ?

Possible to add TurtleNetwork to waves exchange native liquidity pools list with USDN?



Blackturtlenode is top 10 on waves

http://dev.pywaves.org/generators-weekly/

The IDO price was $1 (or 1 USDN). However, this price level is guaranteed: All IDO participants can decide whether they want to receive WX token or USDN during the 1 year vesting period. This also means that WX is unlikely to drop below that price level of $1 in the near future, as the selling pressure from the IDO participants is non-existent below that level.