Topic: "Web"steading - page 3. (Read 4841 times)

The fact that many people express the sentiment that the only thing keeping them from stealing, raping, and pillaging is the threat of police force (or for many Christians who claim God is the source of all morality that only the threat of hell) is indeed a troubling idea

Holy crap that's a lot of ideas/suggestions! Lucky for me, apparently OpenSim does a lot of this stuff already, so I won't have to learn how to mod the thing from scratch...

Regarding Randy's issues, that'll be part of the fun experiment. Sure, there won't be real life punishments, but seeing how people end up being able to deal with trolls such as yourself should be interesting. Perhaps there will be a reputation system, where being a douche damages your reputation and restricts your mobility to travel over people's territory. Maybe just a weapons system that automatically recognizes trolling behavior and blasts you our of the area. Who knows. I just want to see what pople would do if left to their own devices.

Also, awesome to know that the only thing keeping you descent in life is the threat of police authority.

(i promise this is the last post of this burst, if i think of anything that won't be suited to be just edited in i'll write it down and wait for replies here)

Btw, i think you might be interested in this idea i suggested some time ago; the thread's Just throwing an idea out there: Distributed decentralized MOO/Second Life hybrid virtual universe?

Oh, and it would be nice if you make it trully peer to peer, make sims be hostable anywhere instead of inside a self-contained grid, and the client capable of hosting a (possibly reduced capacity) full fledged sim if the user desires, so they can carry their own home wherever they go (to put sims together, instead of considering grid coordinates, have each border come with a URL for the intended neighbor sim; if the sim on the other side of the border links back, and the two sims are running compatible backends, things like shared physics over the border and moving/sharing assets (links and cached copies) seamless etc would be enabled, otherwise the border would work one way, and the client would connect to the neighbor sim when it's in drawing (or hearing or whatever) range to show what is there before the avatar crosses the border, and to make the crossing smoother.



edit: obviously for more intensive things like multisim racing etc, having the two machines close, measured in terms of speed, bandwidth and latency, would likely be quite close to top priority.

edit2: oh, and you shouldn't need to limit the intersim gateways to just the borders, you could also add arbitrarily positioned and shaped gateways kinda like the "portals" in Croquet (the two way negotiation between the sims might be a tad more complicated in this case i guess, but i think it's worth the effort)

Btw, an idea i think would be awesome to have implemented in SL, and wouldn't be any less awesome in this FreeSL thing your proposing; don't limit asset storage just to the sim hosts or other centralized options, let people choose to host their shit anywhere they want, anything from a choice of free and paid third party web storage services even hosting it on their own machine, having their shit only avaiable while they're online and getting downloaded by other people only as fast as their upload pipe allows. And make it easy to switch hosts, for things that are present on sims, disconnected from your av, store the asset URL on the sim not the asset itself (if the sim managers want they could just restrict the URLs to their own hosting service if they want); similarly for assets on your avatar, the client informs the server the URLs it wanna use and the servers decide if they wanna allow everything or restrict to specific hosts, or even only specific URLs under their control.


Of course, sim managers (and  any clients) might decide it's a good idea to cache assets locally; i don't see anything stopping them from doing that.



edit: Of course scripts would need to be stored on the sims in order to run, but if people want, they should be allowed to save the scripts elsewhere and have the sim automaticly (or when told so) update the cached copy of the sourcecode and respective bytecode. And if it finally comes with clientside thirdparty scripting (obviouslly sandboxed etc), similarly clients will hold a cached copy of the source and locally copiled bytecode (though if you gonna add client side scripting, it would also be great to have a separated type of them, "rooted" scripts, things people choose to install, kinda like Firefox's extensions, things that can do pretty much everything the user can plus twiddle with the internals directly. Obviously people should only install those they trust won't do bad things against their will.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Read up and then get back to me with a question that doesn't consist entirely of fallacy.

Dude, I don't know what you are going on about. I am saying that overall, behavior on the internet is fundamentally different than that in real life and as such, this 'experiment' has no context.

To address your rant, would you rather have your neighborhood gangs squabbling over who you pay your taxes to while your children are gunned down in the fray, or would you rather just pay the man and go about your day?

I'm going to piggy back on your comment and quote myself from the previous page, because I don't want the point to be missed and I think it's relevant to your own:

Wow, Somalia again, as the glaring symbol of self governance.

I know you're trolling, but in SL basically you control the land you own (correct me if I'm wrong). This "right" comes pretty natural, since owning land is analogous to owning space+bandwidth, so think of your land as a web page. There are only technical and regulatory limitations to the laws you can define. With Rassah's proposal, I'm guessing all regulatory limitations will be removed.

I think this can be pretty useful. SL has minimal utility as a chat server but if you are into the virtual thing it can get very creative. It would appeal to me if I will be able to find enough live performance. Live lessons, live music, that sort of thing. Organizers are essential.

What puts me off about SL is the real-life simulation aspect: costumes, emotes and whatnot. I have my real life already, thank you very much. (It would be more appealing to me if it was an ASCII roguelike, though I'm not your target audience.)

I don't have any new ideas unfortunately. The best thing would be if this had competitive features of its own, Bitcoin being only one of the features. Otherwise it would get stuck as yet another service exclusively for the Bitcoin community.

Government beauracrats already play this game of rape and pillage without any repurcussions.

*facepalm*

So, what is the reason you "would never consider such behavior"? Do you forego rape and pillage because the government forces you to? Or perhaps it's that you think yourself superior in your lack of desire to do so, when in fact most people feel the same way. Those "rape and pillage" types, guess what they're attracted to - power. The same centralized power you say we need in order to protect us from rape and pillage.

I don't get it. Who would use such a frivolous piece of internet-waste?

It will not be an experiment in anything, because it is not real life. I would have no qualms about getting on your bitlife servers and raping and pillaging and scamming as there are no implications. I would never consider such behavior in the real world, as it is not some imaginary libertopia.

Self governance doesn't work. Look at somalia or any other warlord controlled nation.

I'd love to see I2P support on something like this, at least for the experimental value. Also, how about OpenSimulator (don't know much about it, just asking)?

Yeah, pretty much this; escapism is fun as a distraction but this is just too much, technical limits non-wthstanding

SecondLife has little appeal to anyone anymore besides furry sex roleplayers


The latency implications of this and how much it will choke your CPU's time made me cringe.

Even building on older open-source options, this is a hell of an undertaking.


Sounds like a mess, just being honest

I don't think you can build virtual freedom on top of real slavery. At the end of the day, you're still subject to the whims of whatever state you reside in. I just think our time is better spent trying to live as free as we can in the real world, instead of a virtual one.

Then again, this says I who argue about the nature of the state with strangers on the internet.

Considering reality is a government run and regulated world, being a place where you can escape statism and hang out in a virtual libertopia will sort of be the point here. And since I would want it to run on bitcoin instead of centrally controlled game money, maybe if you're good enough, your second, in-game job is all you'll need? For me, it would be fun just to explore the possibilities we've been talking about here. Setting up some sort of contract and reputation system, debating and establishing our own system of legal arbitration, seeing what kinds of creative ways people can make money off of their IP, figuring out how property can even exist in a virtual digital environment, writing software to protect or attack people's property and privacy to outwit the competing security groups, or even just hanging out in a totally lawles Wild West environment. A chance of seeing how the Seasteading project may evolve without the risk of a real city sinking in flames. Really just a forum like this, with more possibility of implementing the ideas. Kinda far from reality...

I really think the only thing that draws people to platforms such as that is that they do not simulate reality. Do you want to go to your job for 8 hours every day and then go home and do your simulated job for another few hours?

Again, not saying this will be a game (neither is SeconLife, really). It's a simulation of a political society and economy, where you are free to experiment with your ideas and creativity in a more safe environment, same as on this forum, but with more true-to-life simulation possibilities. I think as a platform it really can be a cheaper online-only alternative to seasteading. (Besides, plenty of non reality in current SL already). I actually quit playing SL a while ago because it really did just turn into a glorified 3D chatroom. I'm hoping something similar with more freedom and real money would be more interesting.

I play games to get away from reality, not simulate it.