Where the mixers will promote their projects? - page 2.

Lucius

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Quote from: hugeblack on December 09, 2023, 02:16:32 PM

Quote from: Lucius on December 09, 2023, 10:34:56 AM

I just wonder how they choose their priorities - they come to the forum and see which is the most popular mixer, or they put them all in a hat and draw a name Roll Eyes

I think they are tracking Lazarus Group because from the first blender was seized in 2021 and until today they have been directly or indirectly under the management of that group starting with Tornado Cash, Blender.io^[2] Chipmixer^[3] and Sinbad^[4]

The only exception is bestmixer. I did not find that they have strong links to the Lazarus Group. Perhaps the reason for seizes is the data leak after the dark web market seized.
~snip~

This is the same group that they blame for every major hack that has happened in the last 5 years, and at the same time there is no concrete evidence that they really exist? It seems to me that this group was created in the already well-known kitchen of black operations and serves precisely as the reason that all those fighters for law and justice can be reckoned with what is not under the control of the government.

If this group is so powerful, then why would they use mixers that are under the supervision of the authorities, and not invent a much more effective solution for money laundering - for example, through the banking system that launders hundreds of billions every year, and at the same time we do not hear that the authorities have closed any big bank.

Saisher

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Quote from: Z-tight on December 10, 2023, 01:46:27 PM

Quote from: Saisher on December 10, 2023, 09:40:21 AM

They can still research for feedback, some bloggers and articles mentioned mixers although not by recommendation if the article is reputable and there is negative feedback on mixers in their article they will take them down and retain only mixers that are servicing people who need mixers,

The forum makes it easier and faster for customers to identify a mixer or a service that has failed or turned into a scam, if you think bloggers and articles will publish such info as quickly as people get it here, then you are wrong. I understand your point, but we can all agree that a lot of people will lose their money to scam mixers when the forum stops advertising and linking to mixers, it is not so easy to get information out there, like it is here. Some services are going to start very well and get people's trust and then stop processing withdrawals, and before the information spreads, a lot of people would have been scammed, i do hope i am wrong, but i believe we are going to see situations like these from next month.

Unfortunately, the administrator of any forum has a policy to protect their platform they cannot make a disclaimer that the forum is not associated with any Bitcoin mixer while the members of the community are posting differently from what is the policy of the forum, compared to articles and vloggers they can make it appear the write-ups or videos are for information only because the writer or vloggers only has the full control of the content of this platform.
Bitcointalk has thousands of members and the administrator has no control over what's being posted by members unless they are word-filtered.

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Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on December 09, 2023, 04:05:28 PM

This forum is not the only place mixers could get advertise, they definitely will look for another means to still market their service.

The mixers won't advertise their services on platforms like YouTube or any other social media platform. The main reason for that is they don't want to be chased by authorities because it would be easier for authorities to take action against mixers if they start advertising on social media platforms.

They mainly advertised their services on this forum and now I think one of the mixers of this forum is advertising their services on another similar forum. They will have to struggle a lot in order to find new clients because they want targeted audience to see their ads not just the whole public.

Z-tight

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Quote from: Saisher on December 10, 2023, 09:40:21 AM

They can still research for feedback, some bloggers and articles mentioned mixers although not by recommendation if the article is reputable and there is negative feedback on mixers in their article they will take them down and retain only mixers that are servicing people who need mixers,

The forum makes it easier and faster for customers to identify a mixer or a service that has failed or turned into a scam, if you think bloggers and articles will publish such info as quickly as people get it here, then you are wrong. I understand your point, but we can all agree that a lot of people will lose their money to scam mixers when the forum stops advertising and linking to mixers, it is not so easy to get information out there, like it is here. Some services are going to start very well and get people's trust and then stop processing withdrawals, and before the information spreads, a lot of people would have been scammed, i do hope i am wrong, but i believe we are going to see situations like these from next month.

tabas

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Quote from: Saisher on December 09, 2023, 07:26:43 PM

Quote from: tabas on December 09, 2023, 04:50:10 PM

Anyway, no one's wishing the result to be bad at all and there's always a chance for them and it's their choice how they're going to keep up with the competition and their marketing.

Old mixers that are been running for several years already have returning clients, it's the new and not fully established mixers that need marketing and promotions because of the limitless platforms where they can promote their service they have to make sure that they have far better support than all the other mixers to get a share of the market since they are going to be ban here in Bitcointalk, other platforms are opening up to accommodate them in exchange to activity, and they are more willing until they get the same issues like Bitcointalk experience.

Yes, that's for sure with the established ones and the new forum policy might even be an advantage to them since their competitors will be gone into the greater way of marketing them through the forum. Whilst for the other forum, it's attracting more visitors and traffic but the question is, for how long? Until they keep the campaign running there or when someone from the government steps in as well and tried to seize one of them?

Quote from: Pmalek on December 10, 2023, 03:44:07 AM

Quote from: tabas on December 09, 2023, 04:50:10 PM

These mixers will realize that the comparison of traffic that they'll get there and here are totally way out of the league.

That's also why the payrate is so low there compared to what was and is still offered on Bitcointalk. Here, you used to get $5-7 (up to $10) now. I doubt you will get more than $1.5-2.0 on AltcoinsTalk.

That's a dry run I guess but there is no question why it's a bigger rate in here because traffic is way better. Anyway, good luck to them.

Saisher

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Quote from: Z-tight on December 10, 2023, 08:50:06 AM

Quote from: Saisher on December 09, 2023, 07:26:43 PM

Old mixers that are been running for several years already have returning clients, it's the new and not fully established mixers that need marketing and promotions

This is partly true, but every service needs advertisement, even if they have been operating for a long time. There are services on bitcointalk that have run their signature campaign for years, but they didn't stop, and it is because advertisement keeps your service in the minds of your customers, if you stop advertising, it is possible people might forget about your service and use the ones that are advertising their services.

Returning clients also have to be careful, there have been many failed mixers that were advertising in the forum before they failed, and some of them were still accepting deposits even after they failed and were not processing withdrawals, imagine a returning client who is not aware of this info, whatever they deposit is lost for good.

They can still research for feedback, some bloggers and articles mentioned mixers although not by recommendation if the article is reputable and there is negative feedback on mixers in their article they will take them down and retain only mixers that are servicing people who need mixers, you can always find complaints and feedbacks from mixer users in the internet, one of these platforms is Reddit, where the community admin allow discussion about mixers.
You just have to be diligent with your research.

Z-tight

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Quote from: Saisher on December 09, 2023, 07:26:43 PM

Old mixers that are been running for several years already have returning clients, it's the new and not fully established mixers that need marketing and promotions

This is partly true, but every service needs advertisement, even if they have been operating for a long time. There are services on bitcointalk that have run their signature campaign for years, but they didn't stop, and it is because advertisement keeps your service in the minds of your customers, if you stop advertising, it is possible people might forget about your service and use the ones that are advertising their services.

Returning clients also have to be careful, there have been many failed mixers that were advertising in the forum before they failed, and some of them were still accepting deposits even after they failed and were not processing withdrawals, imagine a returning client who is not aware of this info, whatever they deposit is lost for good.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Wiwo on December 09, 2023, 02:49:29 PM

Let not totally ascribed mixers to criminiaties just like the admin mentioned that not all mixers are bad actors, but a situation where one or two of those bad actor mixer can be trace to this forum is what the admin is trying to prevent it long time effect on members and the forum itself.

A service or a payment method in itself isn't bad. Its features aren't bad. A mixer isn't bad. Mixing illegally obtained coins is bad.

If we put such tags on money, then all fiat should be classified as bad. What did criminals use before 2009? It wasn't that long ago. Drugs, children pornography, bribes, illegal weapons, and murders were all financed by fiat like the USD. Still, you don't ban the words "fiat", "cash", or "USD" because of that and treat everyone as rule breakers because they mentioned such terms.

Quote from: tabas on December 09, 2023, 04:50:10 PM

These mixers will realize that the comparison of traffic that they'll get there and here are totally way out of the league.

That's also why the payrate is so low there compared to what was and is still offered on Bitcointalk. Here, you used to get $5-7 (up to $10) now. I doubt you will get more than $1.5-2.0 on AltcoinsTalk.

Saisher

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Quote from: tabas on December 09, 2023, 04:50:10 PM

Anyway, no one's wishing the result to be bad at all and there's always a chance for them and it's their choice how they're going to keep up with the competition and their marketing.

Old mixers that are been running for several years already have returning clients, it's the new and not fully established mixers that need marketing and promotions because of the limitless platforms where they can promote their service they have to make sure that they have far better support than all the other mixers to get a share of the market since they are going to be ban here in Bitcointalk, other platforms are opening up to accommodate them in exchange to activity, and they are more willing until they get the same issues like Bitcointalk experience.

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Quote from: shield132 on December 09, 2023, 07:26:40 AM

Mixers can promote their mixers on cryptotalk.org too but they will not get any result. Compare the traffic of bitcointalk to altcointalks and cryptotalk, I think the signature campaign run on this forum will result in far superior results compared to signature campaigns run on altcoinstalk and cryptotalk.

These mixers will realize that the comparison of traffic that they'll get there and here are totally way out of the league. They may continue their advertisement there but eventually, if they're not liking the results, it is just going to end up with the expected result. Anyway, no one's wishing the result to be bad at all and there's always a chance for them and it's their choice how they're going to keep up with the competition and their marketing.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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There are still a lot of website out there that will accept to run ads for any mixers that hire them, there are also some android app that display ads, mixers could take their promotion there too. Since Google didn't ban mixer, they could still permit their ads to pup out on YouTube depending if any mixers takes their advertising there, same could be applicable to Facebook, X (Twitter), LinkedIn and more other social media out there. This forum is not the only place mixers could get advertise, they definitely will look for another means to still market their service.

digaran

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So do you guys know who is behind that forum? Any intel on their staff team, admins? it seems like a good idea to teleport there, I wonder, if I can hunt down and properly prosecute any of the abusers when they teleport there? such a brilliant idea, am I right or am I right? 😂

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Quote from: electronicash on December 09, 2023, 02:59:13 PM

all these are because of Sinbad which was used by Lazaro. but it's not Sinbad's fault they were picked by the Lazaro group and Lazaro should be their target, not the mixers.

if authorities are up to finding them, they should just follow the trails. killing mixers business will just make their job harder as it will be done in a very secretive group. it is harder for them once mixers do the most innovative ways like using AIs and telegram bots.

In a situation like this, it's only the innocent users that will be affected negatively because the criminals will find their way around it and find a way to mix the stolen coins within available means to continue with their criminal act.

Although not only Sinbad but also other mixers that were seized back then early this year who had their promotion here in the forum since 2017 be for it was seized by the same FBI chipmixer and this made the incident the second which caught the attention of the admin.

electronicash

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Quote from: Wiwo on December 09, 2023, 02:49:29 PM

Quote from: _act_ on December 01, 2023, 09:40:48 AM

Quote from: TryNinja on December 01, 2023, 09:26:56 AM

Basically: legit users will have a harder time finding legit ones; criminals will still have access to it. Tongue

This is just it that you said. What I think more about what is going to happen is that legit users may not know about mixers again except the one users, but new users that have intention of criminality will still know what mixers are and they will still use it. The criminals will still see ways to do their work.

Let not totally ascribed mixers to criminiaties just like the admin mentioned that not all mixers are bad actors, but a situation where one or two of those bad actor mixer can be trace to this forum is what the admin is trying to prevent it long time effect on members and the forum itself.

Those mixers who have a clean record will continue to exist and legit user will continue to use them likewise even the criminals too will also use them, but saying that generally mixer are used only by criminals may be a big mixup between the facts and assumptions.

all these are because of Sinbad which was used by Lazaro. but it's not Sinbad's fault they were picked by the Lazaro group and Lazaro should be their target, not the mixers.

if authorities are up to finding them, they should just follow the trails. killing mixers business will just make their job harder as it will be done in a very secretive group. it is harder for them once mixers do the most innovative ways like using AIs and telegram bots.

Wiwo

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Quote from: _act_ on December 01, 2023, 09:40:48 AM

Quote from: TryNinja on December 01, 2023, 09:26:56 AM

Basically: legit users will have a harder time finding legit ones; criminals will still have access to it. Tongue

This is just it that you said. What I think more about what is going to happen is that legit users may not know about mixers again except the one users, but new users that have intention of criminality will still know what mixers are and they will still use it. The criminals will still see ways to do their work.

Let not totally ascribed mixers to criminiaties just like the admin mentioned that not all mixers are bad actors, but a situation where one or two of those bad actor mixer can be trace to this forum is what the admin is trying to prevent it long time effect on members and the forum itself.

Those mixers who have a clean record will continue to exist and legit user will continue to use them likewise even the criminals too will also use them, but saying that generally mixer are used only by criminals may be a big mixup between the facts and assumptions.

hugeblack

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Quote from: Lucius on December 09, 2023, 10:34:56 AM

I just wonder how they choose their priorities - they come to the forum and see which is the most popular mixer, or they put them all in a hat and draw a name Roll Eyes

I think they are tracking Lazarus Group because from the first blender was seized in 2021 and until today they have been directly or indirectly under the management of that group starting with Tornado Cash, Blender.io^[2] Chipmixer^[3] and Sinbad^[4]

The only exception is bestmixer. I did not find that they have strong links to the Lazarus Group. Perhaps the reason for seizes is the data leak after the dark web market seized.

Quote from: hugeblack on December 09, 2023, 01:11:31 AM

If you noticed, the issue revolves around the United States’ desire to limit the activity of the Lazarus Group^[1], so Tornado Cash, Blender.io^[2] Chipmixer^[3] and Sinbad^[4] were banned more than it was a ban on mixers.

Therefore, I hope that the restrictions regarding the definition of mixer will be reduced, or at least that they will not be worse than the current wording.

[1] U.S. Treasury Issues First-Ever Sanctions on a Virtual Currency Mixer, Targets DPRK Cyber Threats
[2] OFAC sanctions virtual asset mixer for the first time to combat North Korea’s Lazarus Group
[3] ChipMixer was one of a variety of mixers used to launder the proceeds of hacks perpetrated by North Korea’s Lazarus Group
[4] Feds Seize 'Sinbad' Crypto Mixer Used by North Korea's Lazarus

Lucius

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 09, 2023, 08:26:00 AM

Correct, but advertising and using mixers isn't against the law. In Sinbad's case, the problem was that scammers used it to mix and launder the bitcoin they stole, creating problems for everyone else who had nothing to do with that.

It may not be literally illegal, although no one should have any illusions that it will very likely come to that in the near future. The fact that the authorities allegedly detected some mixers as services through which "dirty money" passes does not mean that this does not happen with all other mixers as well. They are surely already working on some new cases, I just wonder how they choose their priorities - they come to the forum and see which is the most popular mixer, or they put them all in a hat and draw a name Roll Eyes

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Quote from: CaptainLance on December 01, 2023, 09:43:31 AM

Plus, a person who knows what a mixer is, definitely knows how to google search a legitimate mixing service.

A Google search is a great way to find a mixer phishing site and fake mixers where you will lose your money. If we go back to the era of ChipMixer, for example, if you did a google search for the term "ChipMixer", you would see results of phishing site. The genuine website was banned by Google. That tells you everything you need to know about Google and their care for customers. You can also pay for Google ads and advertise an obvious scam and money-grab. Google doesn't care as long as they make money of you.

Quote from: Lucius on December 08, 2023, 06:42:52 AM

However, transferring BTT accounts anywhere and advertising things that are prohibited on this forum means that in the event that the authorities want to locate someone there, they can always request information from this forum as well, given that we publicly admit that it is the same person. What I want to say is that all activities on that forum can have implications on the profiles on this forum.

Correct, but advertising and using mixers isn't against the law. In Sinbad's case, the problem was that scammers used it to mix and launder the bitcoin they stole, creating problems for everyone else who had nothing to do with that.

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Quote from: examplens on December 04, 2023, 07:17:05 AM

I've seen some recommendations to go to the altcointalks.com forum.
This is fun, bitcoin services are moving to the altcoin forum, while on the Bitcoin forum, we can't defend against alt/nft/token spam.

Mixers can promote their mixers on cryptotalk.org too but they will not get any result. Compare the traffic of bitcointalk to altcointalks and cryptotalk, I think the signature campaign run on this forum will result in far superior results compared to signature campaigns run on altcoinstalk and cryptotalk.

I think that old and well-known mixers will continue their job but it will be very hard for new mixers to rise and will probably have to spend more money in marketing because their promotion choices will be very low. Bitcointalk was the most cost-effective and beneficial way to promote bitcoin mixer. I think they'll promote their mixer on websites like zippyshare and torrents.

Lucius

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Quote from: Rikafip on December 08, 2023, 11:41:47 AM

Quote from: Lucius on December 08, 2023, 06:42:52 AM

However, transferring BTT accounts anywhere and advertising things that are prohibited on this forum means that in the event that the authorities want to locate someone there, they can always request information from this forum as well, given that we publicly admit that it is the same person. What I want to say is that all activities on that forum can have implications on the profiles on this forum.

True, whatever you do there might have implications on your bitcointalk account and is indeed something to think about. With that being said, mixers are not illeal yet so I don't think that those who will continue to promote mixers there are in immediate danger and I can imagine if/when mixers become illegal, altcointalk will ban it too.

Regarding this forum, I think it is clear to everyone that we are in a very unfavorable situation considering that the forum is under the direct jurisdiction of the American authorities, and that the main admin is their citizen whose personal data is publicly known. As for this other forum in question, as well as some others that are mentioned, I cannot say what their situation is in this regard - because if they are located somewhere beyond the reach of the American and European authorities and if their admins are unknown, it is possible that even completely declaring mixers illegal will not affect their promotion.

Topic: Where the mixers will promote their projects? - page 2. (Read 1267 times)