Topic: Why bitcoin mixers are only for criminals (Read 749 times)

I would like to ask you to show a single evidence that he's a criminal. Any convictions? But I better let it be. You don't have any anyway and it would just result in a unnecessary discussion in which you would embarrass yourself in every post more and more.

Of course fiat is used for criminal activity. I've never said anything else. From the street up to the top.

Secret services finance and create terrorist groups or finance human mind control experiments.
Some banks finance wars with fiat and some drug cartels launder billions of dollars and bribe a senator with fiat.

Corruption causes most world problems which affect every single individual on our beautiful planet.

That's why need a transparent digital finance system. You just can't let it be how it is because normal persons use fiat for normal and good things in their daily life's.

When you make corruption and criminal actives with money not possible you solve the worlds problems.
Can't do war when you can't finance it

But still bitcoin mixers are only for criminals and not also for some normal persons.

I started talking about mixers. You started talking about some of my other posts and referring to my quotes like bitcoin is not bitcoin anymore. So you started the whole thing. You don't have to red flag your lies saying I'm the one who wants to use this post to spread information regarding other topics.

There are already fiber cables out there doing terabytes. When your investing millions of dollars in a mining operation you also want the best and fastest fiber cables that exists right now in the world.

Mining will be the most competitive industry in the world. Every miner wants to be best and to be the best you need to have the best equipment. A miner also has to get better. If he stops doing so he will fail, cant compete with other miners and he loses hes million dollar investment. Home nodes do nothing they are worthless. Your only a node when you mined successfully a block in the 2016 block period.

Miners always need to get better. Better and more mining devices, infrastructure, better security, better ddos protection, better and faster fiber cables.

Miners can't hide. They have a physical location which is know to everyone. Everyone knows who they are and where they are. When they try to cheat they get rejected and lose millions. And with future laws all their assets are seized and they lose everything. No real business men does or wants that.

When you want to start in industries like oil, airline, huge construction or energy you can't start with a 10k loan from your parents.

You need a hundreds of millions of dollars. Otherwise you can leave.

The same will be with the mining industry in the future. In most part the mining industry is like that already right now.

So mining terabyte blocks is possible. You have to give the miner the opportunity to mine a block big as he wants. If its so big that other miners can't handle it its their problem and they can leave. They have to get better or they can get out of businesses. Again they don't do or want that so they also get better.

A digital currency using pow is secured by economics and not by just cryptography and some holy grail and fake illusions like why all are flying around with cryptography in a digital cyber tunnel and nobody can stop us. 

You can be esoteric as a human but you can't be esoteric with technology.

And with "we" I mean every human on this planet. The technology is revolutionary.
With "we" I mean everyone. Me, you, rich, poor and everyone else. Just everyone.

We need a digital peer-to-peer cash system which makes everyone's life better.

Billions of transactions per block. Try that with a 1MB + segwit block.

Not something like btc which you can use for nothing and just enriches some billionaires and speculators.

With btc you couldn't even handle a city with about 50k citizens.

When you do it right you can change the whole world.

Many have operated under the false belief that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies offer some kind of safe haven from the law. Coin mixers and darknet markets are two products of this belief.But that has changed in the past few years, and cases like Harmons are evidence they are now taking a tougher approach. And Bitcoin, remember, has a permanent public ledger of all transactions.BTC uses Lightning Network to process smaller transactions due to its deliberately-limited on-chain transaction capacity.

It may be that, despite all the well-founded counterarguments, you are still holding on to your opinion. The problem is only that you seem to live in your own truth and therefore you cannot accept any other opinion at all. You also didn't refute my conclusion that you have no idea at all how mixers work technologically and why they are therefore unattractive to criminals. Maybe you should educate yourself a bit before you continue to make a fool of yourself. Just a suggestion.

Golden words.

I find it funny how people supporting criminals are looking for ways to reduce criminality rates. I never stood why we're looking for equality and fairness when the ones giving us orders are criminals themselves. The rules either apply to everyone or to nobody. What regulating BTC does is we're going to be required extra documents and our privacy will become inexistent while criminals wi still use it their own way.

In other words, what this leads to is full surveillance and control while stopping a negligible percent of the illicit activity.

That doesn't count as an excuse that mixers can still be used for such malicious purposes. No matter how the developer or creator envisioned their mixer, it will still boil down to the fact that mixers can clean coins that are tainted due to illegal activities.

Maybe why most of all user of bitcoin mixer is criminal as what you said is because of capability of bitcoin mixer to hide them because using bitcoin mixer they can use bitcoin more privately in that matter its hard to the government to trace them and penalize for what they did.

To my knowledge, not all user mixers are criminals, sometimes people need privacy when making transactions. And so far only Bitcoin mixers have been
able to provide privacy, so there is no hard evidence to suggest Bitcoin mixers are only for criminals. Because so far criminals use fiat to commit crimes
than cryptocurrency. Based on this, I assume that there are very few criminals using Bitcoin mixers. So the conclusion is Bitcoin mixers have more
positive effects than negative effects, because Bitcoin mixers are needed in the crypto world.

Can I ask you? is fiat never been used by criminals for funding any terrorist activity?

We know that mixers are prone to criminal activity but it doesn't if you will use a mixer you are a criminal. There are pros and cons to bitcoin mixers and the reason why they still exist now. To increase the anonymity per transaction that we want, do you think if there is a huge transaction made public and will reveal your identity will not give risk in your life?

Good thing there's a bitcoin mixer that increases to hide identity, but it doesn't matter if there is a bad intention who will be used to it, that's their problem once they caught.

Whoah hold on! I do understand your point but concluding that EVERYONE who uses a bitcoinmixer equates to being a criminal or at least someone involved in criminal activities is just wrong in so many levels. You cannot live in a black-and-white world where there are only two (2) options for you.

Bitcoinmixers are created in order to conceal transactions when you send them to one address to another. While it may be true that it can be an avenue for illegal activities, it was also created for privacy and security.

TBH, it's specifically not for OP alone, but to all those who love privacy over anything and have at least used mixers once in their life. According to what OP has concluded and represented here, every newbie reading his post will think that the one who uses a mixer, straight away gets categorized as a criminal just because they thought for their privacy. It's ridiculous how people think about such services, but a service is a service and when these people are not satisfied with it, nobody asks them to use such services. Just the way you said, if a criminal knows about it, he will definitely use it to satisfy his evil mind's thoughts as well as his ego.

Who is this "we" you're referring to?  That sounds like that's something you need because you can't get it.  You can't get it because such a network would never garner sufficient usage or network effects in order to fill gigabyte blocks (let alone terabyte ones).  You simply don't understand the incentives required to secure the chain.  You can't build an economy with empty promises.  I've seen so many clueless rejects like you over the years who think they know how to make Bitcoin "better" with your banal ideology that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.  Unless you're just one of the old rejects back again with a new username and the same tired old lines, of course.  But keep trying (and failing).  You're never going to make any progress here.  

 

Uh huh.  Cool story bro.  Tether is unquestionably a time bomb, but there is no damage it can do to Bitcoin as a network or a protocol.  The people who are going to get hurt there are mostly the ones holding Tether.  I honestly don't care if there's some short term turmoil with price.  Bitcoin's price isn't what's important.  If you think it is, you're only highlighting your ignorance further.  The important aspects are all the ones your fantasy "terabyte blocks coin" would never be able to achieve, assuming:
 
a) anyone was actually stupid enough to try to create it and  
b) it actually managed to fill those blocks.  Obviously it would never fill them because the only users would be misguided fools like you.

But now that you've revealed your true agenda, perhaps consider dropping the flimsy pretence and acting like this is anything to do with mixers.  Your purpose here is obvious.  Disinformation and propaganda is your game.  You're about as subtle and nuanced as faketoshi himself.  I see right through you.

To spell it out for everyone else reading this, the intended target here isn't mixers, the attack being attempted here is very much on Bitcoin as a whole.  If everyone could stop playing along and fuelling this troll's ambitions, that would be just swell.  

//EDIT:  Brash colouring added so people notice. 

Better to ignore than on stressing out yourself on trying out to convince to those people who do have only shallow understanding when it comes to certain things without even rethinking

that those things had already been long existing when its still on fiat. Criminals do make use other mediums to take advantage on erasing up their tracks which is just a common sense
thing for those criminals to do so.

If they do find out such service that do juggle out your coins on making it completely anonymous then theres no doubt that they would really be flocking in with this option.

Centralized mixers are a horrible idea.

Look into CoinJoin and the upcoming CoinSwap for alternative methods of increasing privacy.

Is it the mixer's fault if criminals use it?
Leave mixers, is it Bitcoins fault that criminals use BTC to transact for their wrongdoings?
It's not like just criminals use BTC, we too use BTC and even more than those criminals just because we know how and should use it.
The same way, it's not just criminals who use mixers but some of us also use it to save ourselves from the pseudonymous nature of BTC. Tell me, where shall we go except mixers, to keep our transactions completely private by juggling our money and getting them on completely fresh addresses?

You are such a faschist!

Just because I have nothing to hide, does not mean I am not entitled to privacy.

He hasn't done anything criminal so hes not a criminal.


What does one have to do with the other?


BTC is not Bitcoin. Bitcoin as we knew it, has been compromised by a company, banks and devs who don't even understand what bitcoin really is. Including you and the 99% of the BTC community.

If you think a 1MB block blockchain, which is kept slow and bad on purpose,  with transaction fees up to 25 dollars (since many months) and the possibility to RBF, is a peer-to-peer digital cash system and bitcoin, then your completely lost.

You can't use BTC for anything right now. People into bitcoin around the globe believe in this crap that bitcoin is now some store of value or digital gold due to the worldwide fake news progoganda. That's not how bitcoin is designed to be.

BTC is now for billionaires, speculators and 40yo moms who heard about it, want to buy it, but still think you need to register to use BTC.

You probably even support lightning network from blockstream which just enriches them and big financial institutions and banks because you will need a financial license to run a payment hub. Lightning network is not P2P.  
You BTC guys think your some kind of rebel but you will end up by using a system controlled by companies like VISA and Mastercard if lightning should succeed. Well done haha.  
Bu the lightning network won't have success. Its so bad and small that right now regulators don't even care about  .

What we need are instant transactions (no RBF) and miners who mine terabyte blocks.
Billions of transactions per block. Transaction script where you can store any kind of data.

Not some shitty raspberry pi idiots and home users who make the whole network slow. Again, something btc people don't understand. They still try to make running btc core possible on a bad home user pc.
Or in other words: "Decentralized". Which is nothing more than bullshit.
They simply don't realize that they are all worthless. Miners keep the network secure and running, not some raspberry pi who does nothing.

Two things will make BTC fail.
Its bad implementation including the fact that its useless.
Another reason which will make btc even more worse in the eyes of everyone:
The revealing of the truth that 70% of btc's price is fake and pumped up by tether with fake money which will cause the btc price to fall by over 95%.

BTC will be the NetScape of the digital currency industry. Pretty ugly...

BTC will fail.
Or maybe your some kind of fetish guy who likes to wait 10 minutes in the grocery store to wait for his transaction to be confirmed because nobody can trust that you don't RBF. Then BTC will have one last user.
Oh wait, you won't have miners then anymore...

No one is denying that bitcoin mixers are being used by criminals what we are denying is that only criminals are using bitcoin mixers, big difference, many people use them just to protect their privacy, it seems that you are fine with your privacy being taken away by governments and private institutions, and if that is the case that is fine, but that is you, you cannot expect the rest of the people to agree with your vision.

This means that for the people that want to retain their privacy even if they are doing nothing wrong there should be a way for them to keep it and that is exactly what bitcoin mixers do, they give the option to those that want to retain their privacy to take it, if you don't want to you don't have to take it but you cannot expect everyone to agree with the way to think.

Are you so naive? Of course they don't say it directly that its for criminal. Financial scammers also don't say in their fake ads that's its a pyramid scheme and the only one who's going to make money are themself. 
You probably would still believe smoking is healthy just because you see an ad with someone saying so.