Author

Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 147. (Read 901362 times)

legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
August 24, 2016, 11:15:28 PM
Well, I have no belief in any invisible magic guys up in the sky but don´t hate those delusions. People believe all sorts of nonsense, that´s their choice.
If people can believe in salvation through Christ, they can believe anything. You are correct, people are entitled to believe what they like.

But ask yourself:
     If other peoples delusions started creeping into the laws of the land. Would their delusions bother you then?
     If other peoples delusions started creeping into the tax system, so your pay packet was slightly lighter every month. Would their delusions bother you then?
     If other peoples delusions started creeping into schools poisoning your children. Would their delusions bother you then?

See. The problem is people cannot keep their delusions to themselves.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 24, 2016, 08:43:10 PM
Well, I have no belief in any invisible magic guys up in the sky but don´t hate those delusions. People believe all sorts of nonsense, that´s their choice.

If people can believe in flat earth, they can believe in anything. The idea is to believe things that make some sense, and to keep in mind some important things that do not make sense. Invisible magic guys in the sky are not so important, partially because they don't make sense. The idea of God is important to keep in mind, because nobody has proven He doesn't exist, and...

... science and nature show that God DOES exist. The existence of God is something that is known to be true. The believing part has to do with the thing that God really is, and what He is planning, doing, and why. And more than that, believing has to do with what God is instructing people, His laws that He built right into people in their DNA.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 262
August 24, 2016, 01:02:34 PM
It's because some leaders of the religion are doing shameful things and using the name of God for selfish reasons. I think this is one of the reason why atheists hate religion. Some religious groups also do things that are immoral and then defend themselves that they are only doing it because it is the will of a higher being they believed in.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 23, 2016, 10:43:55 PM
"Check out Who "The Angel of The LORD" in the Old Testament was."

Gabriel.

So.....?

Why do you never answer simple questions here?

I would have ignored you months ago but you are 100% right on in US politics.

How did that happen?


I think you're here to troll US.  Just a vast left-wing conspiracy theory....

 Cool

I suppose that some scholars might suggest Gabriel. But most consider The Angel of The LORD to be Jesus or one of the other persons in the Trinity. Some think He was an angel who was very close to God, like Gabriel. But Gabriel isn't mentioned in the Bible even indirectly regarding this.

I answer many questions directly... like this one. What is the requirement that I answer any?

I am here to present what I consider to be truth, or at least different ideas, just like everyone else except the trolls.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1130
August 23, 2016, 10:06:53 PM
"Check out Who "The Angel of The LORD" in the Old Testament was."

Gabriel.

So.....?

Why do you never answer simple questions here?

I would have ignored you months ago but you are 100% right on in US politics.

How did that happen?


I think you're here to troll US.  Just a vast left-wing conspiracy theory....

 Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 23, 2016, 09:33:04 PM

What happens to all of the people who lived & died before Christ -- and the gazillions of people around the world who never even heard of him?  They all go to Hell?
Nice God.

If you look in Genesis, right after the fall into sin, God came to Adam and Eve, walking in the Garden. Jesus was there.

Check out Who "The Angel of The LORD" in the Old Testament was.

Jesus has been here from the beginning. Worldwide communications may have been slow, but the world found out about the nation of Israel.

Cool

You have completely revised the Old Testament.

Are you a Mormon, perchance?

It is often modern Bible scholars who are revising the Bible in the minds of people. Get into the Bible and you will see that there are loads of things that are not expressed clearly by modern Bible scholars.

For example. Jesus quoted the Old Testament when He said that people are gods, if the Word of God comes to them. But among the teachings of the Bible Scholars you mostly hear how humble and pathetic sinners are. Teaching our people that sinners ARE humble and pathetic is a right thing, but leaving out the part how we are gods is wrong. The Old Testament says it correctly by adding that we will all die like the sons of men... even though we are gods.

That is only one example of many.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1130
August 23, 2016, 09:12:11 PM

What happens to all of the people who lived & died before Christ -- and the gazillions of people around the world who never even heard of him?  They all go to Hell?
Nice God.

If you look in Genesis, right after the fall into sin, God came to Adam and Eve, walking in the Garden. Jesus was there.

Check out Who "The Angel of The LORD" in the Old Testament was.

Jesus has been here from the beginning. Worldwide communications may have been slow, but the world found out about the nation of Israel.

Cool

You have completely revised the Old Testament.

Are you a Mormon, perchance?
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 23, 2016, 09:08:39 PM

What happens to all of the people who lived & died before Christ -- and the gazillions of people around the world who never even heard of him?  They all go to Hell?
Nice God.

If you look in Genesis, right after the fall into sin, God came to Adam and Eve, walking in the Garden. Jesus was there.

Check out Who "The Angel of The LORD" in the Old Testament was.

Jesus has been here from the beginning. Worldwide communications may have been slow, but the world found out about the nation of Israel.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1130
August 23, 2016, 07:14:28 PM

What happens to all of the people who lived & died before Christ -- and the gazillions of people around the world who never even heard of him?  They all go to Hell?
Nice God.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 22, 2016, 08:28:52 PM
God is a loving god..

1. The Flood (Genesis 6-8)
2. The cities of the plain, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19)
3. The Egyptian firstborn sons during the Passover (Exodus 11-12)
4. The Canaanites under Moses and Joshua (Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21)
5. The Amalekites annihilated by Saul (1 Samuel 15)
6. @BADecker preaching his "word" (BCT)   

 FTFY  Wink

Yep. God loved the good people so much, that after He had given the bad people dozens of years and multiple decades (at least), He decided to get rid of the bad guys to protect the good people.

God doesn't want anybody to die. So don't be like the people in the list. Rather turn to God and His salvation in Jesus. I mean, God is still God. Be upset with His ways if you like. But get on His side, because He is way stronger than you. And if you think you won't turn to Him because of better principles, you will lose, and you won't like it at all. Your honor isn't worth an eternity of death.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1130
August 22, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
God is a loving god..

1. The Flood (Genesis 6-8)
2. The cities of the plain, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19)
3. The Egyptian firstborn sons during the Passover (Exodus 11-12)
4. The Canaanites under Moses and Joshua (Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21)
5. The Amalekites annihilated by Saul (1 Samuel 15)
6. @BADecker preaching his "word" (BCT)   

 FTFY  Wink
sr. member
Activity: 441
Merit: 278
It's personal
August 22, 2016, 04:57:10 PM

People view things how they want.

God is a loving God Who has a whole bunch of reasons why to do things this way and that. When He tweaks all things from the beginning just to match the faith of some, He does it in perfection and righteousness, both for His benefit and for the people and their benefit.

People feel they have choices. They act like they have choices. And by "manipulating" God through their faith in Him, or lack thereof, they express their choices through the cause and effect changes that God makes.


I don't know the answers to many questions, but I agree with you that people view things the way they want - all people, that means every single one. This will always be the case.

People, just like the Source, usually have at least one reason why they do things in whatever way it pleases them, and even if they think they don't have a reason at all to do things the way that pleases them, they'll go ahead and still do it anyways, because they are human and it might be that the reasons are hidden and not in plain sight.

I am wholly for mutual benefit. A win-win is imo the best way to go about doing things.

I have feeling too. I feel I have choices. I act on choices I feel I have. I think before I act. I don't want to burn non-stop. That would be an awful experience. Really, I hope I'm spared from this. I'll obey God instead to escape my own non-stop BBQ.


hero member
Activity: 593
Merit: 505
Wherever I may roam
August 22, 2016, 03:41:39 PM
God is a loving god..

1. The Flood (Genesis 6-8)
2. The cities of the plain, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19)
3. The Egyptian firstborn sons during the Passover (Exodus 11-12)
4. The Canaanites under Moses and Joshua (Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21)
5. The Amalekites annihilated by Saul (1 Samuel 15)
6. ...and so on..
legendary
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
August 19, 2016, 06:05:58 PM


Foreground: BADecker
Background: Gimpeline


nom nom nom  Kiss
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 19, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
So still no arguments, just insults

No arguments desired. After all, you wouldn't know one if it stepped up and bit a watermelon.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 555
Merit: 507
August 19, 2016, 04:33:16 PM
So still no arguments, just insults
legendary
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 19, 2016, 03:53:33 PM
You are wrong. ALL laws and things are determined and fixed. There is no such thing as chance. There is only ignorance of the operations of the universe because of our extremely limited abilities.

For example. When a leaf on a tree is swaying and turning in the breeze, why is it moving as it is? There are billions of molecules of air bumping against the leaf (and each other) in ways that make the leaf move. There are billions of tiny heat energy waves playing on the molecules of air and on the leaf in billions of patterns. How many of these molecules and heat waves can we track to determine how they are working on the leaf and why they are working like they are? Exactly zero! Yet they all work perfectly, according to fixed laws of the universe. Everything in the universe works the same - cause and effect. Yet we understand and track such a small amount of it that we really don't understand the whys and wherefores of anything.

The closest we come to chance is when God goes back to the beginning, and tweaks some of the way He set up cause and effect laws in creation. And He does this to match the faith that people have in Him (or against Him), all according to the purposes He has for making the universe in the first place.

Cool

Maybe, but maybe not. Such a line of reasoning tends to lead one to a view of the universe that is entirely mechanistic and that humans have no free will only the illusion of choice. I do not believe this to be the case. My senses and my experience tells me that I have free will and the ability to shape myself and my destiny. There is much we do not understand about ourselves especially about consciousness. Since we have little to no comprehension of how our own awareness functions we cannot say that such an awareness is bound by cause and effect.

I have provided metaphysics that define what is necessary for free will Kant's noumenal self outside of time. Such a self is free because it is causally undetermined.

I have provided information on emperic and reproducable scientific experiments. Delayed choice quantum eraser experiments show that quantum phenomona can operate outside of what we traditionally think of as time and causal sequence.

I have provided robust scientific theory (Orch objective reduction) that argues consciousness is grounded in these same quantum phenomona that have been shown to operate outside of traditional time and causality.

Obviously from my stated conclusion I believe the Orch OR theory to be true. However this is not a question of metaphysics but one of science.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1571064513001188
Quote
the Orch OR scheme has so far stood the test of time better than most other schemes, and it is particularly distinguished from other proposals by the many scientifically tested, and potentially testable, ingredients that it depends upon.

From this one can conclude that current emperic scientific theory supports the existance of Kant's noumenal self which is required for free will. Free will is thus entirely consistent with modern science and undeniably possible. If Orch OR theory holds up under further and in depth emperic testing I would argue that free will becomes overwhelmingly probable.


Delayed choice quantum eraser experiments tell us that certain quantum phenomena operate outside of what we traditionally think of as time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser

Quote
Delayed choice experiments raise questions about time and time sequences, and thereby bring our usual ideas of time and causal sequence into question.[note 1] If events at D1, D2, D3, D4 determine outcomes at D0, then effect seems to precede cause. If the idler light paths were greatly extended so that a year goes by before a photon shows up at D1, D2, D3, or D4, then when a photon shows up in one of these detectors, it would cause a signal photon to have shown up in a certain mode a year earlier. Alternatively, knowledge of the future fate of the idler photon would determine the activity of the signal photon in its own present. Neither of these ideas conforms to the usual human expectation of causality.

• Orch OR theory posits that conscious arises from quantum computations in brain microtubules.
• As noted by Kant in his model of a noumenal self free will requires a true self that is independent of time.
• Grounding consciousness in quantum mechanics provides this independence.
 

Consciousness in the universe: A review of the ‘Orch OR’ theory
By Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1571064513001188

Highlights
• The Orch OR theory proposes quantum computations in brain microtubules account for consciousness.
• Microtubule ‘quantum channels’ in which anesthetics erase consciousness are identified.
• Evidence for warm quantum vibrations in brain microtubules is cited.
• Interference of microtubule vibrations are ‘beat frequencies’ seen as EEG.
• Orch OR links consciousness to processes in fundamental space–time geometry.

Abstract
The nature of consciousness, the mechanism by which it occurs in the brain, and its ultimate place in the universe are unknown. We proposed in the mid 1990's that consciousness depends on biologically ‘orchestrated’ coherent quantum processes in collections of microtubules within brain neurons, that these quantum processes correlate with, and regulate, neuronal synaptic and membrane activity, and that the continuous Schrödinger evolution of each such process terminates in accordance with the specific Diósi–Penrose (DP) scheme of ‘objective reduction’ (‘OR’) of the quantum state. This orchestrated OR activity (‘Orch OR’) is taken to result in moments of conscious awareness and/or choice. The DP form of OR is related to the fundamentals of quantum mechanics and space–time geometry, so Orch OR suggests that there is a connection between the brain's biomolecular processes and the basic structure of the universe. Here we review Orch OR in light of criticisms and developments in quantum biology, neuroscience, physics and cosmology. We also introduce a novel suggestion of ‘beat frequencies’ of faster microtubule vibrations as a possible source of the observed electro-encephalographic (‘EEG’) correlates of consciousness. We conclude that consciousness plays an intrinsic role in the universe.



People view things how they want.

God is a loving God Who has a whole bunch of reasons why to do things this way and that. When He tweaks all things from the beginning just to match the faith of some, He does it in perfection and righteousness, both for His benefit and for the people and their benefit.

People feel they have choices. They act like they have choices. And by "manipulating" God through their faith in Him, or lack thereof, they express their choices through the cause and effect changes that God makes.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
August 19, 2016, 03:39:38 PM
You are wrong. ALL laws and things are determined and fixed. There is no such thing as chance. There is only ignorance of the operations of the universe because of our extremely limited abilities.

For example. When a leaf on a tree is swaying and turning in the breeze, why is it moving as it is? There are billions of molecules of air bumping against the leaf (and each other) in ways that make the leaf move. There are billions of tiny heat energy waves playing on the molecules of air and on the leaf in billions of patterns. How many of these molecules and heat waves can we track to determine how they are working on the leaf and why they are working like they are? Exactly zero! Yet they all work perfectly, according to fixed laws of the universe. Everything in the universe works the same - cause and effect. Yet we understand and track such a small amount of it that we really don't understand the whys and wherefores of anything.

The closest we come to chance is when God goes back to the beginning, and tweaks some of the way He set up cause and effect laws in creation. And He does this to match the faith that people have in Him (or against Him), all according to the purposes He has for making the universe in the first place.

Cool

Maybe, but maybe not. Such a line of reasoning tends to lead one to a view of the universe that is entirely mechanistic and that humans have no free will only the illusion of choice. I do not believe this to be the case. My senses and my experience tells me that I have free will and the ability to shape myself and my destiny. There is much we do not understand about ourselves especially about consciousness. Since we have little to no comprehension of how our own awareness functions we cannot say that such an awareness is bound by cause and effect.

I have provided metaphysics that define what is necessary for free will Kant's noumenal self outside of time. Such a self is free because it is causally undetermined.

I have provided information on emperic and reproducable scientific experiments. Delayed choice quantum eraser experiments show that quantum phenomona can operate outside of what we traditionally think of as time and causal sequence.

I have provided robust scientific theory (Orch objective reduction) that argues consciousness is grounded in these same quantum phenomona that have been shown to operate outside of traditional time and causality.

Obviously from my stated conclusion I believe the Orch OR theory to be true. However this is not a question of metaphysics but one of science.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1571064513001188
Quote
the Orch OR scheme has so far stood the test of time better than most other schemes, and it is particularly distinguished from other proposals by the many scientifically tested, and potentially testable, ingredients that it depends upon.

From this one can conclude that current emperic scientific theory supports the existance of Kant's noumenal self which is required for free will. Free will is thus entirely consistent with modern science and undeniably possible. If Orch OR theory holds up under further and in depth emperic testing I would argue that free will becomes overwhelmingly probable.


Delayed choice quantum eraser experiments tell us that certain quantum phenomena operate outside of what we traditionally think of as time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser

Quote
Delayed choice experiments raise questions about time and time sequences, and thereby bring our usual ideas of time and causal sequence into question.[note 1] If events at D1, D2, D3, D4 determine outcomes at D0, then effect seems to precede cause. If the idler light paths were greatly extended so that a year goes by before a photon shows up at D1, D2, D3, or D4, then when a photon shows up in one of these detectors, it would cause a signal photon to have shown up in a certain mode a year earlier. Alternatively, knowledge of the future fate of the idler photon would determine the activity of the signal photon in its own present. Neither of these ideas conforms to the usual human expectation of causality.

• Orch OR theory posits that conscious arises from quantum computations in brain microtubules.
• As noted by Kant in his model of a noumenal self free will requires a true self that is independent of time.
• Grounding consciousness in quantum mechanics provides this independence.
 

Consciousness in the universe: A review of the ‘Orch OR’ theory
By Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1571064513001188

Highlights
• The Orch OR theory proposes quantum computations in brain microtubules account for consciousness.
• Microtubule ‘quantum channels’ in which anesthetics erase consciousness are identified.
• Evidence for warm quantum vibrations in brain microtubules is cited.
• Interference of microtubule vibrations are ‘beat frequencies’ seen as EEG.
• Orch OR links consciousness to processes in fundamental space–time geometry.

Abstract
The nature of consciousness, the mechanism by which it occurs in the brain, and its ultimate place in the universe are unknown. We proposed in the mid 1990's that consciousness depends on biologically ‘orchestrated’ coherent quantum processes in collections of microtubules within brain neurons, that these quantum processes correlate with, and regulate, neuronal synaptic and membrane activity, and that the continuous Schrödinger evolution of each such process terminates in accordance with the specific Diósi–Penrose (DP) scheme of ‘objective reduction’ (‘OR’) of the quantum state. This orchestrated OR activity (‘Orch OR’) is taken to result in moments of conscious awareness and/or choice. The DP form of OR is related to the fundamentals of quantum mechanics and space–time geometry, so Orch OR suggests that there is a connection between the brain's biomolecular processes and the basic structure of the universe. Here we review Orch OR in light of criticisms and developments in quantum biology, neuroscience, physics and cosmology. We also introduce a novel suggestion of ‘beat frequencies’ of faster microtubule vibrations as a possible source of the observed electro-encephalographic (‘EEG’) correlates of consciousness. We conclude that consciousness plays an intrinsic role in the universe.


    

hero member
Activity: 555
Merit: 507
August 19, 2016, 03:00:35 PM
I guess you lied again
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15955298
 how can you see his post?
I'm still curious why you think doing the same thing as you do is retarded.
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