Topic: Why people are still buying BTC? - page 113. (Read 13729 times)

So you mean that posts bringing sceptcal views on bitcoin are not eligible here? I disagree. Although I am very interested in bitcoin, I think this forum has enough hallelujah about bitcoin. I welcome and join the minority of heretics.

+1

Yes, the true price is made up of:
cost of production + cost of distribution + cost of retail + cost of marketing everything else is just speculation, like u can speculate on any commodity on the futures market.
Why anyone would want to pay several hundred of dollars for a single coin now is hard to understand. seems like most people think if they dont buy now they going to miss out, after all its limited. Similar to an ice cream sales guy on the beach would say quick get it now before its sold out. Then later in the day its finished and he says dont worry my littler brother LTC (Lite Coin) will now take over, but be sure to buy quickly because he has limited stock as u can see.
Bitcoin as a currency the price does not matter i can buy product X if the price is 10 or 100
If you need to buy product X and need to pay with bitcoins  then buy them at the right price.

Don't worry, guys, I think this one's a troll. A good one, though:



See, he has it backwards! Naptha, economics 101. High supply:demand ratio = low price. Low supply:demand ratio = higher price. That's why, here in 'MURICA, we burn millions of kilograms of corn and wheat when there's a surplus - to keep prices high. Supply and demand, baby.

Furthermore, your statement that bitcoins can't be used for anything is categorically false. Here are some things that I can do with bitcoins:

-Buy tons of random shit, computers, clothes, etc. on bitcoinstore/bitmit/etc
-Buy ANYTHING from an individual who sells bitcoin (I've had people buy items from me on Craigslist and pay in bitcoins)
-Buy food at restaurants (one service contracts over 1,000)
-Buy a car
-Buy from one of many thousands of merchants through bitpay (yeah, it's not strictly end-to-end... your point?)
-Pay for internet services such as VPN, domain names, hosting, etc
-Order ANY consumer good via bitspend
-Buy PMs - gold, silver, copper, etc
-Buy drugs and guns (yes, a black market exists, GASP)
-Place bets, gamble
-Purchase high-end porn on MetART or sign up for the online dating service OKCupid, or download shit on Mega, or tip people on Reddit, or pay for your blog on Wordpress, the list goes on.
-Donate to your favorite charity that accepts bitcoins, or your favorite open-source software project (there is a rather long and constantly-growing list of Bitcoin-accepting NPOs on the bitcoin Wiki)
-Invest, share, send, receive, put, hold, call, trade, speculate, hold, buy, sell, give, donate, color, flip, mix, save, hoard, spend, piss off Ben Bernanke
-Heck, Elwar just bought dog food with Bitcoins
-A guy I know teaches guitar lessons and a couple of his students pay in Bitcoins (no idea how he pulled that one off)
-I buy hay for my rabbits with turnips (barter 4tw, I am the master of the juicy turnip), and the seeds for the turnips I ordered with Bitcoins. Did I blow your mind yet?

So you're like 1 1/2 years late with your "bitcoin can only be used for buying drugs on silkroad" diatribe. People who say bitcoin can't be used are people who just don't want to use it.

Do you mean shorting bitcoin? Try taking a look at bitfinex, they let you borrow bitcoins there to trade them.

Confidence grew over time. Right now the majority of the people are in bitcoin because somebody told them to and they expect a price increase. That's why you see crashes - those sellers are the weak hands who base their bitcoin position on the latest twitter news. With time, bitcoins get accumulated by people who know the fundamentals and see their competitive edge in the few core businesses in which they operate. But that wealth transfer is a common phenomenon in all disruptive industries.

If you think 1 euro is a fair price, then you're obviously trolling.

Yes - the inherent feature of bitcoin to be able to be rapidly settled in combination with its scarcity is what allows the free market to operate more efficiently. Any exchange which would try to "short" bitcoins by full-filling trades with no BTC backing would go out of business quickly in case of violent price movements. At least you would have troubles "withdrawing" your bitcoins from the exchange, while it would try to manipulate its way out of the misery.

The bitcoin currency model in a sense encourages a constant bank run on steroids. That's what disrupts the current business model of banks, because they operate on the assumption of being able to short deposits. There may be bitcoin based banks in the future - but they will have to state clear terms on when you can transfer money out and there will be no FED to bail them out if they screw up.

Look up at the name of the website you are using: bitcointalk.org

If you have no use for bitcoins, then maybe you should ask yourself why you are here on a bitcoin site? Trolling perhaps?

Could you go into a bit more detail what you were spending hours on that gave you such a low return? Then you should ask yourself what you did to get any dollars you have? Maybe you could do the same thing in exchange for some bitcoins?

so stay under PRIVATE banks rules, go away from bitcoin 
free choice.

Yes.

Quite simple, if you had read my entire other reply. The price is so high due to speculation. People thinking they can make a quick buck (or euro) off of it. Bitcoin certainly deserves a higher exchange rate than the 1 euro to 1 btc conversion you suggested earlier. After all, we know that there will never be more than 21 million BTC however the ECB and the federal reserve both create (and dump into their respective economies) more than 21 million units of their respective currencies in a single day on average.

So your idea of a 1 euro to 1 btc equivalency would mean that BTC was constantly losing purchasing power. Why tie it down that way, just to make things more convenient for you? While we're at it, if we're going to do that, why don't you make a grand statement that 1 oz of silver is worth 1 euro and 1 oz gold worth 10 euros. See how much you can purchase at those prices.

The price BTC should be at would be discovered by 'price discovery' which is what people are willing to set the value at. This soars when people try to abuse the system to make quick buck.
The price BTC is at is due to speculation, from people who don't care about the cryptocurrency itself and (much like it sounds you feel) just want to be able to make some money off of it.

Now do you understand why the price is so high? Because that is where the speculators have driven it. There is no high supply of BTC, so I don't understand that part of your question. If you don't understand now, kindly go read up on economic theory and then re-read the answers in this thread and perhaps you'll understand then.

Thralen

I might be lacking imagination but still can't understand what makes you that over confident. You can't compare btc and internet...
Still reading hundreds of posts in this section, and can't configure out why people are still buying above 1 euro (which is according to me, something like a "fair price").

Is it possible to actually trade btc? (I mean sell btc before actually buying it)
If not, it might explains why people are keeping buying atm.




Feel free to gtfo.

I'm normally quite bad at spotting an obvious troll but...this is one.

Right?

The consensus model used by bitcoin prevents it from competing on
1) transaction delay
2) transaction fee for microtransactions

Use other means if you need quick payments and small percentage fees. However, there will be services on top of bitcoin, which allow you to do bitcoin-denominated transactions without going through the blockchain (a business model coinbase.com is working on, e.g. by providing user-user account transfers).

Regarding 3) security you have to distinguish between service providers and the security of the asset. As long as people depend on settling their final trade in some fiat currency, they will be subject to (in-)securities of the services operating at the interface. However, there are already plenty of things which do not require that step - with time, as merchants start to keep their earnings in bitcoins, this problem will fade away.

I think you're suffering from lack of imagination. Like people didn't know what the internet could be used for in the 90's. In hindsight it was obvious.

No, I never tried to mine btc actually. And will never do.
I used that kind of websites: http://dailybitcoins.org/

I understand exactly how bitcoins works, how mining works ...
What I don't understand is why the price is so high (~ 90 euros). It does not make sense to me.

So, make it simple: what makes that high price? High supply.
Where did it come from? And why?



That's my point.
How many coins are lost (1 million out of 11 million or 10 million out of 11 million?)?
What created so much supply after the recent crash. I can't see any improvement in:
- transaction delay.
- transaction fee.
- security.

Which are the main keys to me...



Everyone wants to make profit, but should be careful with involved risks. They are kinda high at the moment.

Different people have different preferences. Just like how some people prefer to use cash when dealing, some prefer debit card, some credit card and etc. Each method have their advantages and disadvantages, but people still use them. Same argument for bitcoins.

A counter question:

Why some people are keep coming here when they don't appreciate the idea of BTC?

I understand that at the moment it's not for everyone, but it's still in "beta" and at the beginning of wider adoption.

OP: you are forgetting: it's fun. there's a lot of people that love the idea of an internet currency. it's very fun. that alone makes it worth something. it's rare. people still seek old baseball cards. etc, etc, think outside the box!

Feels free to move it.

Why?


So, all the supply is based on buying drugs?
Isn't it over estimated as fuck?




Even thinking long term, I can't get what makes them believe that the value of 1 btc is more than 1 euro ...
Of course, the price of 1 btc is what people are willing to pay for it, but there should be some guarantees.
For instance, if a lot of companies were accepting btc, if btc was almost flawless (instant payment, lower fees, no security problems), I could understand that it would appear "safe" or "reassuring", which is obviously not the case.


Feel free to explain.


When you pay something with your credit card or paypal, the fees are either negligible or acceptable.
When you pay something with btc, they are repulsive.

When you pay something with your credit card or paypal, you got it immediatly.
When you pay something with btc, you have to wait.

It has nothing to do with me wasting time (I stopped) for getting 0.00000001 btc.

Bitcoins use as a 'currency' has been steadily growing in various sectors, Silk road perhaps being amongst the most notable. However, the price that this relatively miniscule transaction activity would support, I would imagine to be still very much in single digit territory. Needless to say, the humoungous double and triple digit prices have come about as a result of speculation/manipulation, and lets face it, everyone here has had an opportunity to greatly enrich themselves thanks to this, and who doesnt want a slice of that action?

My personal opinion is that most on here (the plankton or at best, the tadpoles of the Bitcoin ecosystem), are still buying because they are fkn stupid and are blinded by thier own greed/optimism as to the strong probability of much lower prices in the months ahead. However, having said that, with all the volatility, even now there is still plenty opportunity for nice profits to be made, and who doesnt want to make profits?

Trying to find the forrest and all you can see is trees?

To understand why bitcoin is useful you have to master a few disciplines and get some perspective. Here's a recent comment I made which partly fits your question: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1887433

It basically boils down to bitcoin solving a few niche problems, and it will go from there. Here are some:
1) wealth confiscation and reduced/no counter-party risk (brainwallets and free market valuation)
2) quasi-instant trade settlement (no delivery games)
3) financial privacy (user adjustable)
4) batteries included (payment processing)
5) separation of power (money supply governance, miners vs. users)

like any asset class, bitcoin is subject to valuation, which ideally is determined by supply/demand on a free market. Determining the "fair" market value of a bitcoin is the challenge of 2013 and the years to come - it requires a solid foundation for market making.

Hence bitcoin will not solve ONE BIG problem - it will solve many small ones. And by that it will gain stability in valuation. However, look out for alternative coins, as they may try to improve upon particular points and settle for one niche. However, buyer beware - many alternative coins don't improve upon anything and are just .... redundant.

It's being used as a currency all over the place. The list of merchants that accept bitcoins as payment grows by leaps and bounds daily. Transactions are typically verified in not more than 10 minutes, and become computationally harder to counterfeit or reverse as time goes on. You can buy bitcoins right now on any of the exchanges, and it's fairly painless. I bought about 20 BTC back when they were $13 dollars a piece, and cashed on during the initial rise to 90. Then I picked up more cheap ones at 75, and I'm holding onto them. Why would I do that? Because I made a bunch of money! Difficulty increases BECAUSE more people are mining. If people stop mining, difficulty decreases, and mining becomes more profitable. And there are PLENTY of companies that have not been compromised. Companies being compromised doesn't present a problem with bitcoin itself, it presents a problem with the companies who are getting hacked, and their lack of security.

It short, you basically got every argument completely wrong.