Topic: Will Trump be indicted ? - page 12. (Read 3386 times)

Yes, I have noticed on the internet, people from both parties continue to antagonize each other more and more as time passes.
Also, Bush was rather a quite strong economic conservative, if I recall correctly, I did not know those who supported him back in the day would move onto supporting Biden today, because their policies are rather different.

By the way, I am sure this division is being look very closely by adversaries like Russia and China, since they aim to weaken USA and there is no doubt there is in their interest for the American population to continue fighting each other, more violently if possible...

Excuse me for somewhat wandering off my topic of the Trump indictment, but to address your point.....


Yes, this has been going on ever since the dawn of the internet and social media has enabled/allowed communities of folks with political pre-conceived notions,
regardless of how irrational they are on a purely factual level, to gather together in a virtual setting, multiply, bolster and amplify/broadcast their beliefs.
Its a feedback loop. And here we are today with understandably folks on both extreme sides of the political spectrum
living in their respective internet reality bubbles, squawking at each other. Both sides thinking the other side are crazy. Its a sad state of affairs.
I myself try to stay being a common sense center of the roader, not straying to one extreme or the other, and risk falling into the ditches of fringe nonsense, this forum being a prime example.
 (Don't get me wrong, this place keeps me well amused)...

And to stay on topic, Tuesday looks like an interesting day as arraignment happens, but I rather doubt there will be a handcuffed Trump "perp walk" but if there is, the internet will probably explode.




 

ya think?

I agree with you that it's a bit complicated to predict America and America's internal politics, I also agree with you that Biden won the 2020 election by coincidence, people who didn't support him before also supported Biden, many wrote about it in the newspaper. it will be very difficult to judge good or bad but it can be said that the 2020 election in America was an exceptional religious election which will be remembered in history.

In this case is probably not as much about the overwhelming evidence, which I am sure is there and I am sure much more could be brought for many other counts, since Trump is so clearly a "creative tax payer". On this case it is a lot about being able to effectively judge someone who has such an immense (and for me difficult to understand) support from the grassroots and the big money.

The tentacles are all over, and they probably can destroy anyone trying to do the right thing

Both parties currently view the other as an existential threat to the country and I'm not exaggerating when I say it's as if there are two different realities for those who hate Biden and those who hate Trump.

There is no more conservative party in America anymore, which is not a good thing.  In fact, many of the conservatives that you're thinking of from the Clinton and Bush days openly supported Biden, the democrat, in the 2020 election.

I do not live in the USA, but I have read that allegedly things within the GOP have changed so much that, some people would dare to say that they miss the old days when the differences between the Democrat party and the Republican party were a matter of policies and arguments on how to get things done. (And actually getting them done).

Again, I may not be as informed as those who live there, but I sincerely do not think the things are are going on nowadays in American politics are supposed to be "normal" if we look back to politics of the 2000's and the first half of 2010's.

People are moving towards both extremes.

This is true, however don't forget in the days when Trump 1st announced his candidacy coming down that escalator, (gag me)
many leading republicans denounced him as a clown or some such thing, and bad for the party.
Of course once he (Trump) caught on amongst the 'base", and they realized he was gaining popularity they all changed their tune and started kissing his ass.
Lindsey Graham comes to mind. What a spineless brown nosing flip flopper.
Though I do give him credit for actually showing up as a guest on The Daily Show.
Probably because Al Franken was hosting and apparently, despite their political differences, they were friends when Franken was a senator.

But I digress... I believe this indictment is just the beginning. A warm up act if you will, just to test the waters for the big one(s) to follow.
To wit, planning a failed insurrection, attempted election interference in Georgia, stealing/not returning classified docs and tax evasion.

A no nonsense explanation of what happens now with the indictment going forward, from a former federal court prosecutor with 30 years experience...

https://youtu.be/Gob8TieQ_ok

It's not the fact that he paid off the porn star to keep quiet about their affair.  There's nothing illegal about that.

It's about Trump having his lawyer create a fake company to pay off the porn star and then being reimbursed through structured payments (with fraudulent business records) from Trump so that they could get away with violating Federal Election finance laws 11 days before the election.

His personal lawyer already served time in prison for his involvement in this specific issue.

Speaking of Michael Cohen, think about this situation from his perspective:

• Trump has Cohen pay off the porn star with a shell company so he can hide it from the FEC.
  
• Trump has Cohen lie to congress about his business deals in Russia after winning the Republican nomination.
  
• Cohen goes to prison for paying the porn star and lying to congress.
  
• Cohen gets out of prison and is subpoenaed by grand jury about Porn Star payments.
  
• Team MAGA loses it's shit and says Cohen is lying and you can't trust anything Cohen says because he was convicted of lying to congress.
  

The republican party has been cultivating this base for decades and Trump is a perfect match for it. The system works as designed. Too bad the GOP "designers" were morons too but that's a whole other story.

I've been embarrassed for this country (usa) ever since that clown got elected, and now he just won't go away.
The sooner this pos shyster fades into oblivion in the political theater, the better for this country.
I honestly don't understand why the republican party cannot just wash their hands of this failed player and back a real candidate that has maybe a little bit of integrity and knows how to spell.
Oh yeah... "the moronic uneducated cult of Trump base" 

It seems like the entire case against Trump stems from someone breaking an air tight non-disclosure agreement. I don’t think this case goes anywhere but it’s pretty huge news. I think it also opens the door for more political war between the right and left. If you are an American and this makes you happy instead of embarrassed, you probably need to get tested for TDS.

This is the best news in a while.  Every former prez for quite a number of cycles is easily indictable on a myriad of crimes.  Trump to, although his accusers had to struggle mightily to find something which they themselves were not obviously guilty of as well.

'Protocol' has been broken.   The 'adversary' (in fake WWE terns) screwed Trump out of his 2nd of two terms.  This in part because, most likely, Trump really was something of an outsider to the Repuglicans.  (Hard-core religio-Zionist center mass mostly forced him in.)  Anyway, protocol is protocol, and that's objectionable to break and sets precedent.

Legal harassment of a criminal for their crimes does act as a deterrent, so I, for one, hope that it becomes more the norm in national level politics.  If so, banking and other white-collar crimes will, hopefully, not be that far behind.

That said, actual accountability for crimes would probably be a transient and solvable issue for the class of criminals who run our societies.  It might simply make things drag on in a cyclic manner.  I think a judicial system which mirrors 'direct democracy' or 'free market' would probably provide better and more durable results.

Is it a coincidence that the US became a third world country the very moment Trump was indicted?  I think not.



Yes, that's the actual ad showing beneath his "truth" on his site that's just overflowing with "truth".

Must be a dream come true for the slimeball salesmen out there.

Yes, he said he's been indicated.  





No it's not the strongest case or that serious of a crime.  

But you don't want to fill yourself up on bread when the biggest ribeye you've ever seen is about to come off the grill and onto your plate.  Just have a bite or two and prepare yourself for the main course.

I just read the news after I realized there was a lot of activity on Twitter, from both allies and detractors of Trump.

Things were already heating up in the political ground of the United States, with all the debate on gun control and civil liberties, but this may take things to a new level.

I still believe nothing will happen to Trump (for now) since among all the investigations currently going on in USA, this one is the weakest of all; being the strongest one the alleged interference he wanted to take place in the presidential election in the state of Georgia.

Let us see what happens next...

finally....

Ok teachable moment here.

So, when that report first came out, Trump said essentially the same thing.  That it was proof the investigation was a sham.  And then lots of republicans and right wing media repeated the same thing.  And because the report was lengthy, like you said, many people just believed them, instead of reading the report.  Like you.  The same thing happened with the Mueller report.  You believed what Trump said without reading the report, and as a result, you believe a lot of things that aren't true.  The Mueller report is much more complicated which makes it much easier for you to argue in circles than in the case of this IG report.  

You think the IG report shows that the Investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and ties between Russia and the Trump campaign was a sham, I say the opposite is true.

How about you take my hand and we can see what the IG report says according to the report itself, instead of according to Trump and the media reports you relied on up till now?

Click your link and scroll alllll the way down to page 350, second to last paragraph:


No, I listed the the classification of the documents seized from Trumps house.

Are you arguing that a president should be able to steal classified documents and then keep them in his basement after he leaves office because it's well known the government tends to overclassify documents?  Do you really think setting that precedent would be anything but completely retarded?




Yes he did have that authority.  But he did not have the authority to steal them and keep them in his basement after he left office.  Also, none of the laws cited in the search warrant, like the espionage act for example, are dependent on whether or not the documents were classified.

Of course, Trump will continue to pretend like this whole case is about whether or not he declassified the documents he stole and kept in his basement, and then you will continue to repeat what he says, and I will continue to remind you that by repeating Trumps nonsense you're arguing that a President has the power to take any document he wants from any of the intelligence agencies and keep it for himself as a civilian - which is obviously a really freaking stupid argument.


The FBI raided his home and then unsealed the warrant and receipt of what was seized.  That's the evidence.  

You just listed all of the potential classification categories that the government could have given the documents. It is well known that the government tends to overclassify documents that really do not need to be classified.

Trump had the ultimate authority to declassify the documents in question. It would be stupid for Trump to not declassify a document he intended to bring to his home -- it is trivial for him to declassify a document.


I have not seen any evidence the documents in question would threaten national security if released to the public.

If the documents were such a threat to national security, there is no reason why the FBI would have waited over a month to get a warrant.

Look up Ammon Bundy and his group. They forcefully commandeered a Bureau of Land Management wildlife facility in Oregon some years ago. The jury let them go free - https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ammon-bundy-long-testimony-swayed-ore-jury-acquit-article-1.2848300.

The point is that the jury rules, not the President, although he can make it difficult for the jury.

In theory. Whoever's in charge of the Presidency runs the show unfortunately. I'm all for reducing the size and power the government.

How about this: the federal government does not belong to a "party".